[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I don't know if the logic is sound. It isn't for me. Purchasing cars like these are emotional decisions. If my heart is set on an M2, then that's what I want. All the reason in the world is not going to make me forget that and decide to spend a large amount of money for a car I'm not excited about. And the M3 isn't really a car I am excited about.

Then you might be the type of buyer who will wait for an M2.

However...the majority of car buyers are more looking for transportation.. and they also want it today as opposed to ordering it or waiting a week... let alone several months...

If you have ever attended a sales training seminar.... sales reps are advised and trained by their companies to " sell what's in stock".. whether the item is a car... or a washer dryer.. or a television. it is the atypical buyer that comes in and wants a single item.. and won't budge from their mission, and will wait for that item.. Most buyers can be delfected towards one brand or another. When a buyer comes in and asks for a television... perhaps the buyer has a preference for Sony... but a sales person can do demos, talk about technology, show off features for other models, and most importantly.. when the buyer is ready to walk out the door... many may walk out buying a Samsung ... simply because it's available today.

now... A person that wants a Sony XBR for example... may just wait for their television to be ordered ..

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Then you might be the type of buyer who will wait for an M2.

However...the majority of car buyers are more looking for transportation.. and they also want it today as opposed to ordering it or waiting a week... let alone several months...

If you have ever attended a sales training seminar.... sales reps are advised and trained by their companies to " sell what's in stock".. whether the item is a car... or a washer dryer.. or a television. it is the atypical buyer that comes in and wants a single item... Most buyers can be delfected towards one brand or another. When a buyer comes in and asks for a television... perhaps the buyer has a preference for Sony... but many may walk out buying a Samsung because it's available today.

now... A person that wants a Sony XBR for example... may just wait for their television to be ordered ..

Of course. Makes sense. But we are talking about people looking to buy an M2. Anyone looking to buy an M2 is in a niche that doesn't align with majority of buyers just looking for a car to haul them around. BMW doesn't need an M2 to entice those other buyers with a low cost M car. Those people already see the M235i as a low cost M car. They don't know any better. If bmw is using this car (M2) simply as a carrot on a stick, it's a waste of money.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Then you might be the type of buyer who will wait for an M2.

However...the majority of car buyers are more looking for transportation.. and they also want it today as opposed to ordering it or waiting a week... let alone several months...

If you have ever attended a sales training seminar.... sales reps are advised and trained by their companies to " sell what's in stock".. whether the item is a car... or a washer dryer.. or a television. it is the atypical buyer that comes in and wants a single item... Most buyers can be delfected towards one brand or another. When a buyer comes in and asks for a television... perhaps the buyer has a preference for Sony... but many may walk out buying a Samsung because it's available today.

now... A person that wants a Sony XBR for example... may just wait for their television to be ordered ..

Don't disagree with you but I'd add a few points. None of us on these forums are your typical car buyers. While what you said absolutely holds true for the vast majority of vehicle sales, we are dealing with a very small percentage of the total here. I, for instance, plan to wait for an RS3 and would pay a premium over the M2 because 1. I need something in that performance category and 2. need AWD. Would I be happier with the M2 95% of the time? Sure. But the 5% of the time that I'd be totally screwed and stranded outweighs getting the car sooner, maybe for less money, and arguably better handling. Let's be honest, we're a bunch of petrol-sexuals arguing about very nuanced differences amongst a group of cars that has almost no appeal or attainability to the mass car buying public.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Don't disagree with you but I'd add a few points. None of us on these forums are your typical car buyers. While what you said absolutely holds true for the vast majority of vehicle sales, we are dealing with a very small percentage of the total here. I, for instance, plan to wait for an RS3 and would pay a premium over the M2 because 1. I need something in that performance category and 2. need AWD. Would I be happier with the M2 95% of the time? Sure. But the 5% of the time that I'd be totally screwed and stranded outweighs getting the car sooner, maybe for less money, and arguably better handling. Let's be honest, we're a bunch of petrol-sexuals arguing about very nuanced differences amongst a group of cars that has almost no appeal or attainability to the mass car buying public.

The RS3 hasn't exactly received stellar reviews for its handling abilities......

[BEM-S4]

Just as a point of reference, through Nov 2015 BMW, IN TOTAL, had a 2% share of the U.S. car market. I don't have BMW numbers handy by model, but I cannot imagine all M-cars combined total even 1/10 of 1% of all cars sold here. So we are not talking "typical buyer" by any stretch of the imagination.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Just as a point of reference, through Nov 2015 BMW, IN TOTAL, had a 2% share of the U.S. car market. I don't have BMW numbers handy by model, but I cannot imagine all M-cars combined total even 1/10 of 1% of all cars sold here. So we are not talking "typical buyer" by any stretch of the imagination.

From the December sales results page here..

The BMW M brand set a new U.S. sales record with 14,504 and record BMW sales of 346,023 ...

wow. . just 4 percent of sales are M cars..



If you haven't worked in sales... then you likely have very little clue about the typical buyer because you are making assumptions that simply aren't the case. Buyers and buying habits don't really change much across products... that's why you will see that a professional Sales person can sell well whether they are selling white goods , watches, cars, or stereos.

Agree with you that the market for M car owners is small group of buyers..
But just like the larger group of BMW buyers overall.. they will exhibit similar characteristics.
Whether or not the item is IN STOCK is what drives the majority of sales.....
An available M3 or M4 will drive out the door much more often than an M2 allocation... as plenty of prospective M2 buyers will be happy to " settle" for an M3 or M4... Especially after they negotiate a killer deal as opposed to facing at or near MSRP on an M2. ... Even FILTHY RICH Buyers love to get a deal (and they love to tell their friends too!)

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

The RS3 hasn't exactly received stellar reviews for its handling abilities......

Understood and agree. I drove one in Stockholm. Haven't driven the M2 yet obvs which is why I said arguably but I'm looking for the best thing for what I need, not the "best car" per se. Never do track days in my road cars, mostly highway, don't drive like an idiot etc. So the handling compromise is one I'm willing to make to get the other attributes that I prioritize. I'm also realistic about my driving abilities and what I want to do with my DD. Lewis Hamilton won't lose any sleep worry about me taking his job.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

From the December sales results page here..


The BMW M brand set a new U.S. sales record with 14,504 and record BMW sales of 346,023 ...

wow.. just 4 percent of sales are M cars..


If you haven't worked in sales... then you likely have very little clue about the typical buyer.
Buyers and buying habits don't really change much across products...

Right so assuming Dec is a good proxy for the year and nothing weird was going on, I was spot on with my guess. That's 0.08% (I was off 2bps) of all cars sold in the U.S. are M cars. So we're all agreed that we're crazy gear heads paying through the nose for performance vehicles instead of making sensible transportation choices.

Sure M buyers may be similar, but it's not a commodity product we are talking here. Using your watch example, as you move up the stack from Timex to Omega then to Jaeger we are talking luxury goods and buyers are increasingly demanding and specific in their wants. And I use the term want instead of need purposely. Yes if someone needs a new car tomorrow for whatever reason yes the M3 could be a good alternative to an unavailable. All just depends on the situation.

And yes, to your final point, the only time $ ever comes up in polite company is when someone got a smoking good deal. I have friends and colleagues worth well into the hundreds of millions of dollars range and they cannot wait to tell you what a killer deal they got on literally anything even a $100 pair of shoes.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

An available M3 or M4 will drive out the door much more often than an M2 allocation... as plenty of prospective M2 buyers will be happy to " settle" for an M3 or M4... Especially after they negotiate a killer deal as opposed to facing at or near MSRP on an M2. ... Even FILTHY RICH Buyers love to get a deal (and they love to tell their friends too!)

To counter this point, again is the emotional factor that goes into buying cars like these. Your average buyer might just as well settle for a normal 3 series over an M3 because it's on the lot. But increasingly we see that M buyers are willing to wait and pay up to get something one of a kind, opting for Individual paint and custom stitched interior fabrics. While I agree that a buyer is a buyer 98% of the time, chimps also share 96% of human DNA, yet the differences in 4% are drastic.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by W///

Depends how you look at it. Success with the enthusiasts, sure. But the 1M and M2 productions numbers are a drop in the ocean compared to the X1 for example.

Just the fact that you have to pull the car from the line is not a small deal, even if it takes a couple of minutes. Each station in assembly line is usually measured by the seconds, so this is another proof that the car will not be a high production model.

It is only proof that the M2 needs a few things that the standard 2er does not have.

[raysspl]

Let's not forget M2 is another halo car for BMW. Demand will outstrip supply & that's good.

[HP Autosport]

Did I read that right, M2 delivery is Sept. 2016 now?

[Destroya]

Fascinating discussion. You are probably all correct to a certain degree regarding pricing and BMW strategy in that regard. As for myself, I have no interest in an M3/4 and am willing to wait a year or so if the M2 reviews come out as expected. But I may lose interest should the delay prove to long. This is, after all, just a car.

[pruettfan]

I find it funny how based on basically no information so many conclusions can be drawn, like the profit margin being lower on the M2, limits on factory capacity etc. What I am 100% sure of is BMW has figured out how to produce this car and we don't have to worry about them making money on them. When they announced the car the production manager spoke about working through the process and making sure the factory equipment was wide enough for the car etc so none of this is new information. All factories that produce multiple vehicle lines plan the production well in advance to make sure things time out, this car will be no different.

[ORIGIN M.]

Correct. A bunch of hyped up bullshit is posted above. People pull this info out of their asses, with zero data to back it up.

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I find it funny how based on basically no information so many conclusions can be drawn, like the profit margin being lower on the M2, limits on factory capacity etc. What I am 100% sure of is BMW has figured out how to produce this car and we don't have to worry about them making money on them. When they announced the car the production manager spoke about working through the process and making sure the factory equipment was wide enough for the car etc so none of this is new information. All factories that produce multiple vehicle lines plan the production well in advance to make sure things time out, this car will be no different.

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Did I read that right, M2 delivery is Sept. 2016 now?

No, you didn't read it right.
Some Belgian dude, ordered an M2 in October '15 and he 's being told by somebody that he wont see it until September '16. All very iffy.
I think we'll know more about US delivery times when the car gets through it's last "World Debut" at the Detroit Auto show. Which is coming up this month.

[r3dbimmer89]

I wonder if the process is similar for the ///M4 at Munich and the ///M3 at Regensburg

[gthal]

Originally Posted by fuddman

No, you didn't read it right.
Some Belgian dude, ordered an M2 in October '15 and he 's being told by somebody that he wont see it until September '16. All very iffy.
I think we'll know more about US delivery times when the car gets through it's last "World Debut" at the Detroit Auto show. Which is coming up this month.

The documentation for Canada (and confirmed by my dealer) says deliveries to start in April. Likely early cars but that's when it starts.

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

Maybe that dealer has a long list. Or he is just trying to up the price.

Originally Posted by ///Jason

I'm not sure UK Dealers selling above MSRP though? I've been quoted the same prices as in the press. I think their finance rates may vary though.

UK dealers certainly do not sell above list price. That's mainly a U.S. thing.

Originally Posted by The English Guy

2016 allocation gone. 15% off an M3 as a second deal. First negociation.

15%? That's good. I enquired about an M4 last week and was told 6.8% is the best they can do.

I'm still trying to decide between an M2 (due in July this year) or an M4.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

The overwhelming success of the 1M set the stage for the M2. It will sell. There is no question.

we agree for once!

Add the fact that the 1M was really for enthusiasts who were willing to pay the premium and that a lot of people will want to get in the new entry level M car.

[CDN]

Originally Posted by Artemis

A Belgian who ordered his M2 shortly after the October launch, reported yesterday about status code 111 with M2 delivery expected for September 2016 (instead of earlier as initially assumed). No information whether he's first on the dealer list or not + the precise order date.

I did not inquire yet about the approximate delivery period of mine. No stress.

Also Belgian: order placed 17 October with expectations of an April delivery. Financing approved, trade-in agreed on. Mail today says there were 130 allocations for Belgium this year and we aren't one of them. Dealer is trying to work something out with BMW. We'll see.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by CDN

Also Belgian: order placed 17 October with expectations of an April delivery. Financing approved, trade-in agreed on. Mail today says there were 130 allocations for Belgium this year and we aren't one of them. Dealer is trying to work something out with BMW. We'll see.

Doesn't sound promising for anyone looking to get one. If you're fourth on the list, you're expected to wait until the second year LCI? Jeez.