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      08-10-2017, 10:38 AM   #67
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      08-10-2017, 10:49 AM   #68
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It's funny, a lot of the same folks who rush to code out ASD are defending the MPE.
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      08-10-2017, 01:32 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pissclams View Post
It's funny, a lot of the same folks who rush to code out ASD are defending the MPE.
MPE here, can't hear the ASD over the drone

Two birds with one stone.
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      08-10-2017, 01:53 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambolle View Post
Unless you feel the need to annoy your neighbors or to be confused with an oncoming fleet of Harleys or hopped up rice rockets, I cannot possibly see the need for a 'performance exhaust' that adds exactly zero to the performance of the car and merely makes more noise.
I can't understand all this concern on this forum about not annoying the neighbours. Annoying the neighbours is my number 1 priority - that's why I'm going to get a Fabspeed downpipe and muffler bypass. Sunday mornings 07.00, while those lazy gits are snoring away happily in bed, I'm gonna let her rip !
Yes Corinne yes

I've no problem treating the neighbours to an early morning cold start. Gets them 'up and at em' and is a really nice sound.
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      08-10-2017, 03:14 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pissclams
It's funny, a lot of the same folks who rush to code out ASD are defending the MPE.
Are you calling out the irony? If so, I disagree. I think most ASD-haters don't object to the engineered aspect of the sound (that would apply to all sports cars, yes?) but to the fact that it is 100% fake news...er...sound.

It's a (very well-designed) computer-generated sound; no mechanical input whatsoever. I don't want to listen to the equivalent of a video game but I'm all for piping in the real sound into the cabin or manufacturing/engineering real, mechanical parts that sound glorious.

Although added HP/decreased back pressure would have been nice...
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      08-10-2017, 03:30 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by AngryBaby View Post
Are you calling out the irony? If so, I disagree. I think most ASD-haters don't object to the engineered aspect of the sound (that would apply to all sports cars, yes?) but to the fact that it is 100% fake news...er...sound.

It's a (very well-designed) computer-generated sound; no mechanical input whatsoever. I don't want to listen to the equivalent of a video game but I'm all for piping in the real sound into the cabin or manufacturing/engineering real, mechanical parts that sound glorious.

Although added HP/decreased back pressure would have been nice...
They're both computer generated sounds, neither of which have anything to do with the performance of the car. Yes, that MPE sound was most definitely engineered on a computer and fabricated on those designs.

Whether it comes from a speaker or exhaust tip, what's the difference when there's zero performance gain and it's only there to increase the bulge in the driver's pants?
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      08-10-2017, 05:47 PM   #73
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Has anyone ever done dyno tests with the MPE?

I find it odd that there isn't any Performance gain at all.

I'm wondering if the zero Performance claim has to do with not affecting emissions ratings and taxes. Or against warranty claims. For instance, a user who has modified his car to have the same Performance increase using other methods can claim it shouldn't affect the warranty of the car.
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      08-10-2017, 06:43 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pissclams
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryBaby View Post
Are you calling out the irony? If so, I disagree. I think most ASD-haters don't object to the engineered aspect of the sound (that would apply to all sports cars, yes?) but to the fact that it is 100% fake news...er...sound.

It's a (very well-designed) computer-generated sound; no mechanical input whatsoever. I don't want to listen to the equivalent of a video game but I'm all for piping in the real sound into the cabin or manufacturing/engineering real, mechanical parts that sound glorious.

Although added HP/decreased back pressure would have been nice...
They're both computer generated sounds, neither of which have anything to do with the performance of the car. Yes, that MPE sound was most definitely engineered on a computer and fabricated on those designs.

Whether it comes from a speaker or exhaust tip, what's the difference when there's zero performance gain and it's only there to increase the bulge in the driver's pants?
Haha you're calling the MPE's sound "computer generated"? That was some poor justification. If you want to argue that the MPE is unnecessary and "fake" then we can have a reasonable discussion. Calling it computer generated because it was at least partially designed on specialized software? Come on, man...
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      08-10-2017, 07:51 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by DoggieHowser View Post
I find it odd that there isn't any Performance gain at all.

The airflow is constrained before it gets to the muffler section of the exhaust.
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      08-10-2017, 10:14 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by ried View Post
The airflow is constrained before it gets to the muffler section of the exhaust.
So a free flow cat box fixes that?

I have found performance gains with other catback exhaust systems before. Doesn't the Remus catback offer 8hp gains?
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      08-11-2017, 01:46 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggieHowser View Post
So a free flow cat box fixes that?

I have found performance gains with other catback exhaust systems before. Doesn't the Remus catback offer 8hp gains?
Yes they claim 8.7hp & 11.8 nm, i know the Remus design is different than the MPE in regards to it has 2 separate mid pipes of 65 mm each compared to the MPE's one at only 80mm, i'm no exhaust expert but maybe that has something to do with it?

I will be able to give some feedback soon as i've just ordered the Remus.
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      08-11-2017, 02:24 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pissclams View Post
They're both computer generated sounds, neither of which have anything to do with the performance of the car. Yes, that MPE sound was most definitely engineered on a computer and fabricated on those designs.

Whether it comes from a speaker or exhaust tip, what's the difference when there's zero performance gain and it's only there to increase the bulge in the driver's pants?
Your argument is flawed by suggesting both are computer generated. That's like saying a cake in your local bakery is the same as the one on your computer. They're both look like cakes so they must be the same.
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      08-11-2017, 06:08 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryBaby View Post
Haha you're calling the MPE's sound "computer generated"? That was some poor justification. If you want to argue that the MPE is unnecessary and "fake" then we can have a reasonable discussion. Calling it computer generated because it was at least partially designed on specialized software? Come on, man...
And why would you find that so strange after this disgrace of a feature called "Active Sound" Heck i wouldnt even be suprised if theres a loud speaker somewhere hidden in the MPE exhaust to provide you with this loud sound. Active sound is a joke MPE is a joke too. not to mention the preis
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      08-11-2017, 06:50 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Levente_CSL View Post
And why would you find that so strange after this disgrace of a feature called "Active Sound" Heck i wouldnt even be suprised if theres a loud speaker somewhere hidden in the MPE exhaust to provide you with this loud sound. Active sound is a joke MPE is a joke too. not to mention the preis
I don't get all the hate for the MPE. People buy rims that give zero performance gain over stock, some even make the car handle worse, because they want to change the look. Why can't someone buy an exhaust to change the sound even if it comes with no performance gain?
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      08-11-2017, 01:03 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chambolle View Post
Unless you feel the need to annoy your neighbors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinne View Post
I can't understand all this concern on this forum about not annoying the neighbours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rouxeny View Post
I love the idea of the MPE, but I frequently leave the house late at night or in the early morning. Nobody likes to be woken up at those hours. Certainly not by your neighbor's car's exhaust...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggieHowser View Post
If you are worried about waking your neighbors when you leave the house early in the morning, don't get the M2. Period. Even the stock exhaust at cold idle is loud. My wife complains about the kitchen utensils hanging on the adjoining wall with the garage rattling like mad every time I start the car. If you are coming home late, the M Performance does have a quieter mode. Then it's just up to you how you modulate the throttle. You can still cause a racket with the regular exhaust in MDM mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
early morning cold start
The loudest bass sound on the M2 during cold start lasts close to 40 seconds since firing up the engine. Subsequently the deep bass sound dies down and the normal bass sound remains while idling.

What happens AFAIK: the engine management arranges to quickly heat up the catalytic convertors through 'open loop' fueling (fueling control loop: fuel/air-fuel ratio feedback loop between the injector pulse and oxygen sensors). On cold start, some open loop algorithm pulses the injectors until the time that oxygen sensors are sufficiently warmed up to properly do their job. Oxygen sensors feature heater wires to help shorten this time and maintain operating temperature. Hence, the open loop fueling only happens during a brief time window after firing up the engine and won't be triggered that way if the engine was already warmed up to operating temperature (you'll notice that there won't be that hallmark cold start deep bass sound if you restart the engine briefly after a drive). Reason for all this: emissions requirements and getting the cold engine a little quicker up to temp.

With a manual gearbox, the loudness of an M2 cold start (with or without MPE) or 1M (with or without Akrapovič exhaust) can definitely be toned down by using the clutch and accelerator pedals in close harmony. Fire up the engine (if you got MPE: don't open the butterfly valve) and immediately climb a little higher in the revs (thus higher than the usual 1200-900rpm engine idle yo-yo cold start start-up sequence) with the accelerator pedal, whilst partially depressing the clutch pedal. Just a matter of subtle interaction between the left and right feet to slowly move forward/backward out of your parking space whilst gently subduing the deep bass sound. You'll notice that by doing so, you'll reduce that deep bass sound loudness. And as this pedal interaction only takes place at very slow speed and for a very brief period of time (just enough to move the car from its parking spot), it's best to operate when in a location where the deep bass sound could eventually bother other people nearby (especially from dusk till dawn). A lesser known fringe benefit of a 6MT compared to an M-DCT.

Technical explanation (general): "Internal combustion engine cold-start efficiency: A review of the problem, causes and potential solutions":
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...96890414001939

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
There was a clip on here of the reg exhaust and the MPE - and I much preferred the reg - glad to have saved the money and truth be told, I think the car sounds awesome!
Granted, I've never heard the MPE in the "real world", but if you are completely enamored with something, why change it?
This much I can say - the stock sounds a lot better at startup - to me.
Hear one in real life. Tastes may differ, but to many ears, the MPE takes the M2 to another sound level. And when under load with revs ranging between 5K and 7K, it can sound gloriously 'beast'.

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      08-11-2017, 07:37 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by importriders View Post
I don't get all the hate for the MPE. People buy rims that give zero performance gain over stock, some even make the car handle worse, because they want to change the look. Why can't someone buy an exhaust to change the sound even if it comes with no performance gain?
Lets be honest the hate is envy, just like I'm envious of the LCI cluster. there will be lots of self deceiving denial but that's really all there is to it

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      08-12-2017, 12:27 AM   #83
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m33porsche sez: 'Lets be honest the hate is envy, just like I'm envious of the LCI cluster. there will be lots of self deceiving denial but that's really all there is to it.'

Seriously and in complete honesty, I do not 'envy' the MPE. Nor do I 'hate' the MPE. It's a meaningless gesture in my view. If it gives you some sense of satisfaction to call that 'self deceiving denial,' then by all means gratify yourself.

My view of the MPE: If it floats your boat and you are in the mood to pay for one, fine. I'm simply uninterested. I find the stock exhaust more than adequately aggressive - loud, deep baritone, with plenty of snap and crackle at speed. If you gave me an MPE gratis tomorrow, I'd sell it before the day was done. If you'd care to send me one to see whether I really and truly mean that, or whether that's just 'self deceiving denial,' I'll send you a mailing address.

As for wheels that add nothing to performance, I understand your point. However, I find the black 437m wheels that come with the M2 as sold in the US offensively unattractive, which I gather many others do not. Personally, I'll gladly spend the dinero to get a set of more esthetically pleasing wheels for the car for summer, in silver like my 640m 18 inch winter set, which I think looks great on the car in LBB. And looks are not insignificant when you're looking at an otherwise very nice looking new automobile.

Last edited by chambolle; 08-12-2017 at 12:38 AM..
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      08-12-2017, 01:24 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chambolle View Post
Unless you feel the need to annoy your neighbors or to be confused with an oncoming fleet of Harleys ...
I loathe Harley Davidson motorcycles for this exact reason - the horrible sound of the exhaust and how it intrudes on my enjoyment of where I am at that time some jerk inflicts it on me.

That said, I'm sure that everyone who buys them does so for the sound of the exhaust, and enjoying cruising around the CBD where the tall buildings create a great environment for the sound to reverberate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinne View Post
... And THAT, my dear fellow forummers, is why I intend to get my revenge
I'd love to piss of one neighbour of mine who is the definition of a C**T (apologies for using this word) with a modified exhaust, but it'll aggravate all my other neighbours, who are really nice folks. If only I could pipe the sound into her house as I leave early (6:20am) each morning ...

One thing I've noticed in the media here in Australia, is that when there is some offence committed with a car, the article will seldom mention the make of the vehicle ... except if it is a BMW. It just creates an impression like this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambolle View Post
My view of the MPE: If it floats your boat and you are in the mood to pay for one, fine. I'm simply uninterested. I find the stock exhaust more than adequately aggressive - loud, deep baritone, with plenty of snap and crackle at speed. If you gave me an MPE gratis tomorrow, I'd sell it before the day was done. If you'd care to send me one to see whether I really and truly mean that, or whether that's just 'self deceiving denial,' I'll send you a mailing address.
Exactly! I love the standard sound - BMW's done a great job of making a snarling, crackling exhaust.
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      08-12-2017, 08:37 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chambolle View Post
My view of the MPE: If it floats your boat and you are in the mood to pay for one, fine. I'm simply uninterested. I find the stock exhaust more than adequately aggressive - loud, deep baritone, with plenty of snap and crackle at speed. If you gave me an MPE gratis tomorrow, I'd sell it before the day was done. If you'd care to send me one to see whether I really and truly mean that, or whether that's just 'self deceiving denial,' I'll send you a mailing address.
As for wheels that add nothing to performance, I understand your point. However, I find the black 437m wheels that come with the M2 as sold in the US offensively unattractive, which I gather many others do not. Personally, I'll gladly spend the dinero to get a set of more esthetically pleasing wheels for the car for summer, in silver like my 640m 18 inch winter set, which I think looks great on the car in LBB. And looks are not insignificant when you're looking at an otherwise very nice looking new automobile.
I respect your point of view. Though, to my understanding, your 'MPE versus wheels' distinguo confirms to some extent the very essence of this debate: it's all about personal taste. We are all diamonds featuring many facets glittering/glistening differently in the same light.

Some people prefer goodies of the BMW M Performance catalogue or third party after market suppliers, over the stock set-up of their ///M car. In principle not per se (except if solely serving the purpose of 'buying bragging rights'), but because they consider that it 'improves' their car a little more and complies with their personal taste.

Of course only few of those goodies are truly automotively functional (think for example of a tune, coilovers and, at very high speed, maybe also the MP trunk spoiler replacing the smaller Gurney flap), whilst the vast majority are merely aesthetically functional (tweaked sound and vision to some - ruined sound and vision for some others).

So what about the M2 M Performance Exhaust ? To most petrolhead ears the MPE adds aural pleasure and suits well this type of car. No cheap thrill. To some petrolhead ears the MPE is aural overkill. And to still some others the MPE may be even considered an outright nuisance.
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      08-13-2017, 08:19 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by importriders View Post
I don't get all the hate for the MPE. People buy rims that give zero performance gain over stock, some even make the car handle worse, because they want to change the look. Why can't someone buy an exhaust to change the sound even if it comes with no performance gain?
Disagree.. Most high priced aftermarket rims being implemented weigh considerably less than stock rims which obviously has a huge impact on the important unsprung weight factor. Thats not to say that the bling factor is absent; only that there usually is a performance aspect to the choice of rims. Or, at least, there can be.
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      08-13-2017, 08:55 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by boostm3 View Post
Disagree.. Most high priced aftermarket rims being implemented weigh considerably less than stock rims which obviously has a huge impact on the important unsprung weight factor. Thats not to say that the bling factor is absent; only that there usually is a performance aspect to the choice of rims. Or, at least, there can be.
You missed the point. I'm obviously not talking about rims that are lighter, of course they add performance. There are also exhaust that add performance. Point being the MPE sort of falls into the same category as a cosmetic change.

Hating on the MPE is sort of like hating on someone who puts on a non functional spoiler or black kidney grills. It's just personal preference.
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      08-13-2017, 11:55 AM   #88
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For the record: what BMW representatives said at SEMA 2015 in interviews about the M2 M Performance Exhaust:

See here:
Q: How much weight will the M Performance Exhaust save over the factory setup?
A: No figures yet because still in preproduction form.
[From Jason: the pictured exhaust is still preproduction so the final production exhaust may look different. Also, the exhaust is constructed from stainless steel, so don't expect much weight savings over factory. The focus is on sound improvement (and aesthetics) with this exhaust. The choice of stainless steel was made with the M2's price segment in mind].
Q: Any power gains from the M Performance Exhaust?
A: Few gains should be expected just from changing axle back exhaust on a turbocharged BMW because:
1) the main restrictions are in the two catalytic converters, which are retained with an axle-back exhaust and
2) no gains should be expected without remapping the ECU because the ECU is always correcting, so for example if the car loses backpressure, the ECU will reduce power.
Q: How do valves operate on the M Performance Exhaust?
A: Valves are solely driver-controlled using an included bluetooth remote (see exhaust remote from a MINI, which the M2 remote will resemble). The exhaust valves do not automatically open or close at a certain RPM.
[From Jason: the remote may come in packaging which should fit in the cupholder to act conveniently as a remote holder].
See also here:
Q: What are the technical specs on the M2 exhaust system?
A: The material is going to be stainless steel and you will be able to choose between carbon fiber tips and titanium tips. But the construction will be stainless steel for cost reasons. The tips will also be interchangeable between M3 and M4 exhaust systems. There will be no power gains with an axle-back exhaust because the turbocharged engine will compensate to create the same amount of torque. It would be different with a naturally-aspirated engine, but not with the turbocharged engine.
MPE parts numbers:
  • part # 18 30 2 412 432 = exhaust system (stainless steel) (aka "MPE")
  • part # 18 30 2 414 896 = exhaust system remote control + cupholder remote holder (included with MPE)
  • part # 18 30 2 358 111 = titanium exhaust tips [F80 M3 | F82 M4]
  • part # 18 30 2 358 110 = CF exhaust tips [F80 M3 | F82 M4]


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