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      08-06-2017, 01:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Well.. coming in at spots 9 and 10 are the 911 GT3 and the 911 R .. six tenths difference.

If that difference was added to the M2 time That doesn't move it very far.
Far enough to be faster than M3 ZCP
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      08-06-2017, 01:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
This can be said about every time on every track in existence.
True, however, the weather in some areas is far more questionable than others. Wales is particularly bipolar when it come to topic of wet weather. Even the tired a true "same day, same track, same driver" adage for lap times is difficult to apply at Anglesey due to the rapidly changing conditions.
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      08-06-2017, 03:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaalrasha View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Well.. coming in at spots 9 and 10 are the 911 GT3 and the 911 R .. six tenths difference.

If that difference was added to the M2 time That doesn't move it very far.
Far enough to be faster than M3 ZCP
Bingo !
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      08-06-2017, 06:25 PM   #26
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The M2 is a super polarizing car. That’s what I’ve learned over the course of the last year.
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      08-06-2017, 08:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
The M2 is a super polarizing car. ThatÂ’s what IÂ’ve learned over the course of the last year.
It's extreme for what you get without a doubt.

Wunderbar to drive that's for sure.
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      08-07-2017, 09:14 AM   #28
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Whilst the figures are exciting, unless you race these are just bragging figures... and bragging about a machine that one didn't make or design, but are willing to pay exponential amounts of money for. I'm sure there are hundreds of people out there that would thrash me on this course even if I were in the one of the top 15 cars and they were in my 320d.

That said I'd love the M3 CP and I feel for those who've spent a fortune on the GTS and seen it rated as slower.
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      08-07-2017, 10:56 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Whilst the figures are exciting, unless you race these are just bragging figures... and bragging about a machine that one didn't make or design, but are willing to pay exponential amounts of money for. I'm sure there are hundreds of people out there that would thrash me on this course even if I were in the one of the top 15 cars and they were in my 320d.

That said I'd love the M3 CP and I feel for those who've spent a fortune on the GTS and seen it rated as slower.
The GTS takes some understanding so it can be adjusted correctly so it preforms correctly depending on how you intended to use it.

With the correct tires and correct adjustments I am sure it will be ahead of your CP M3 even if you ran the same tires. That said I still think the GTS is to expensive for what you get.
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      08-07-2017, 12:59 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
DCT might have launched it into the Top 10
And fitting M3/4-sized tires could also help. M2 tires are 10mm narrower on the exact same wheels.
(Probably to make sure the M2 doesn't threaten M3/4 Nordschleife lap times.)
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      08-07-2017, 11:40 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosozoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
DCT might have launched it into the Top 10
And fitting M3/4-sized tires could also help. M2 tires are 10mm narrower on the exact same wheels.
(Probably to make sure the M2 doesn't threaten M3/4 Nordschleife lap times.)
I'd say cooling could be a big one. Both for times in hot climates and long term reliability. Tire width would help but so would softer compound especially if you got stuck with contis
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      08-08-2017, 11:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redux View Post
True, however, the weather in some areas is far more questionable than others. Wales is particularly bipolar when it come to topic of wet weather. Even the tired a true "same day, same track, same driver" adage for lap times is difficult to apply at Anglesey due to the rapidly changing conditions.
True enough. Of course, by extension we don't know whether any possible delta in conditions favored or disfavored either car, right?

Therefore, absent that data, I'm willing to take these times as a rough estimate of the two cars' capabilities at that track...
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      08-09-2017, 12:11 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
But like I said sometimes I wonder if the hardware just isn't there to get the optimistic times some expect.
Let’s see how the M2s numbers stacked up against other cars.

Does this qualify as optimistic?
Quote:
Anglesey lap times:

1. BAC MONO 1:31.00
2. McLaren P1 1:34.25
3. Porsche 911 GT3 1:34.96
4. McLaren 675LT Spider 1:35.70
5. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 (997) 1:36.10
6. Ferrari 488 GTB 1:36.90
7. TVR T350t Red Rose LW 1:37.00
8. McLaren 570S 1:37.90
9. Porsche 911 GT3 (991) 1:38.10
10. Porsche 911 R (991) 1:38.70
11. BMW M3 GTS 1:39.00
12. Porsche 718 Cayman S 1:39.03
13. C 63 AMG Coupe Black Series 1:39.10
14. BMW M3 Competition Package 1:40.16
15. BMW M4 GTS 1:40.40
16. Audi TT RS Coupe (8S) 1:40.57
17. BMW M2 (F87) 1:40.68
18. Aston Martin V12 Vantage S 1:40.80
19. Jaguar F-Type SVR 1:41.20
20. Alfa Romeo Giulia QV 1:41.55
Source: fastestlaps.com


I see nothing wrong with questioning what a DCT would do to that time. Top 10 quite possibly.
TT RS beat it.. That was around a short track. Compare lap times against the M3 on the Nurburgring and you will see a big difference in track time numbers
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      08-09-2017, 12:38 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
TT RS beat it.. That was around a short track. Compare lap times against the M3 on the Nurburgring and you will see a big difference in track time numbers
True. But this is not the Nurburgring we are talking about.

I could list a 100000 “what if” scenarios that the M2 would be much slower. We can start ‘in a straight line to 60mph’ and go from there. How about ‘with 1 flat tire’? Or ‘on the Daytona Speedway’.
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      08-09-2017, 08:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
True. But this is not the Nurburgring we are talking about.

I could list a 100000 “what if” scenarios that the M2 would be much slower. We can start ‘in a straight line to 60mph’ and go from there. How about ‘with 1 flat tire’? Or ‘on the Daytona Speedway’.


So you get to pick the "master" track that's used to compare the M2 to all other cars?

There is no equivalency between "100,000 'what if' scenarios" and pointing out that the M4 is faster around the Nordschleife, or any other larger track for that matter. Of course the M4 is going to be faster around a larger track; it's got a better power-to-weight ratio, so it benefits from longer straights. That's not some obscure "what if", that's common sense.

Any discussion surrounding lap times for road cars always devolves in to this same pissing match. Everyone picks their favorite, and then cherry picks results that support theirs.

I guarantee you that for 99% of the people on this board, if you put them behind the wheel of both cars at a three day track school, everyone would walk away with a different favorite, and it would have very little to do with the lap time.

A good car is like a good video game. Challenging, but not beyond your capability. It must respond to your controls, and it must work for your driving style. Some people are heavy-handed, while others have a light touch. It must also suit your tastes. Some people love drag racing, while others like to drive around a circuit. Some people like to hang the tail out, while others like to keep it tidy.

You can't tell anything about these characteristics from a lap time, so don't lose any sleep over the fact that one car is a few seconds faster than another around a circuit. Drive what you like.
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      08-09-2017, 08:50 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post


So you get to pick the "master" track that's used to compare the M2 to all other cars?


Guy, calm down.

The entire point of my post (if you bothered to read it in context) is that there can be a million “what if’s” and that my comment was for this video and race trackalone.

I didn’t plan on getting into a debate about the millions of racing variables and the merits of yadda vs yadda. I was responding to the topic at hand. DRIVETRIBE FAST LAP.

Are you getting me now?

Last edited by OSee; 08-09-2017 at 08:56 PM..
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      08-10-2017, 09:06 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post


Guy, calm down.

The entire point of my post (if you bothered to read it in context) is that there can be a million “what if’s” and that my comment was for this video and race trackalone.

I didn’t plan on getting into a debate about the millions of racing variables and the merits of yadda vs yadda. I was responding to the topic at hand. DRIVETRIBE FAST LAP.

Are you getting me now?
And my point (if you bothered to read it at all) is that there is no equivalency between "a million 'what ifs'" and comparing performance on multiple tracks.
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      08-10-2017, 11:43 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
And my point (if you bothered to read it at all) is that there is no equivalency between "a million 'what ifs'" and comparing performance on multiple tracks.
Looks like we are stuck in a infinite "if you bothered to read" loop!

The Patriots have won 100000 straight games at home! "What if they played away!" Makes so much sense.
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      08-10-2017, 12:26 PM   #39
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Once the driver steps out of the car, I wouldn't ask him for his lap time.

I would ask him whether he enjoyed the ride and whether he thinks that it's major uncool if BMW wouldn't make the 6MT available for the M2 CS.
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      08-10-2017, 12:51 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
Looks like we are stuck in a infinite "if you bothered to read" loop!

The Patriots have won 100000 straight games at home! "What if they played away!" Makes so much sense.
But what is your point? I've ready back over your posts again, and all I can gather is that you have a strong desire to scope the comparison to this particular test, in an effort to prove some point that I can't quite put my finger on.

You started out by quoting this statement from stefan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
But like I said sometimes I wonder if the hardware just isn't there to get the optimistic times some expect.
Stefan is calling in to question that competence of the hardware, and you respond with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
Are journalist above criticism? Does criticizing a journalist require a 2 paragraph response from you?

The time is there. The optimistic times you expect are reality. The M2 hangs with the M3 ZCP. WE are interested in it. It was done on a slower manual. It is natural to expect that the same driver would do a few ticks better. Putting the M2 in the top 10.

Why are you allowed to go on about your surprise that the car is doing so well, yet us believing it can do even better on a even playing field is a bad thing?
If we follow it from there, you seem intent upon scoping the comparison to this Anglesey circuit test... which has everyone with more than a few brain cells scratching their head. How can you possibly believe that a single test supports your assertion that the "M2 hangs with the M3 ZCP", unless you're qualifying that assertion to "in this test". If that's the case, then I have no argument with you. As you say, the times are there.
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      08-10-2017, 02:12 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
If we follow it from there, you seem intent upon scoping the comparison to this Anglesey circuit test... which has everyone with more than a few brain cells scratching their head. How can you possibly believe that a single test supports your assertion that the "M2 hangs with the M3 ZCP", unless you're qualifying that assertion to "in this test". If that's the case, then I have no argument with you. As you say, the times are there.
The times are there for Anglesey. This video is directly related to that. I don't care to discuss any other variables. No other race tracks. I don't care about the "ya but" or "if only".....Only the topic of this post. The M2s performance in this video, on this track, compared to other cars on THIS track.

I'm talking about this weeks Giants vs Redskins game at FedEx Field and you want to talk about the theoretical one a year from now at MetLife (I don't think football analogies are working with you).

Why is it so hard to understand that?

Sidenote: Nice job being manipulative and taking my journalist response completely out of context. Stefan made a comment that suggested journalists opinions should not be criticized. I responded DIRECTLY to that. Not the quote that you suggest up there.

My only answer is to put you on ignore to stop this madness.

Last edited by OSee; 08-10-2017 at 02:20 PM..
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      08-10-2017, 02:39 PM   #42
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"BMW M3 Competition Pack Faster than M4 GTS on Anglesey Track" (Aug 9, 2017):
http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/08/09/vi...nglesey-track/
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      08-10-2017, 03:12 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCfromOC View Post
My only answer is to put you on ignore to stop this madness.
It's cool. I can't say I'm surprised. Keep that head buried deep in the sand, bud.
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