[omasou]

Originally Posted by akkando

If they're not going to do options then they should not allow heated seats.

Sorry, I meant crazy long list of packages and options. For example, with my E36M3 and M2 the choices were basically Executive package (in which the US rolls together most options) and paint colors.

IMHO, the M3/M4 packages should probably be part of the base package but aren't in an attempt to artificially create a low base price.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Tag

IMO it's the latter. The fact that they were surprised at the demand for a small M car boggles the mind. Serious question: Are they living under a rock? Everyone was practically begging for a small M car, so they make one to "test the water" and are shocked at the demand? Idiots.

I'm confident it's the latter. I have background in sales and can certainly recognize sales/marketing strategy.

The entire 2 series lineup is simply shortchanged. It's clear that from the beginning there is little investment in plant production or design.

BMW wants to sell 3er and 4er in the US. They have expanded that platform from coupe and sedan to include gran coupe and GT.

In the 2 series lineup there is a coupe only. No hatchback, no sedan, no accompanying 1 series platform. No attempt to maximize profit from variants of the same platform. In Europe however there are 1ers in three and 5 door guise.

BMW instead hopes for all Americans buy X1 and X3. Then double down and add in X2 and X4 while all the while dictating to the marketplace the following.

Those Americans sure love SAV.
We can't sell Z4.
We can't sell 2 series.
We can't sell 6MT, everyone loves DCT.

I've gotta get this in quickly before a moderator tries to tell you that the following chart is actually a reflection of what buyers want ...

It's actually a reflection of what BMW wants to do. They have abandoned the small sedan market ( that they basically created and Dominated with the E30 thru E90) in favor of large sedans and crossovers. Audi with the A3 and Mercedes with CLA have swooped in and taken BMW to task in the luxury car entry level market and BMW lost their long running sales crown in that category in the process.

Auto marketing people dictate to us what they want us to hear. BMW and Porsche were killing off manuals and becoming more like Mercedes , exactly like what fans of BMW and Porsche DON'T WANT.. It's up to fans and purists to keep them honest.

[dmboone25]

M3 Adjuster

Completely agree...if they'd made a 1M 5 door or M2 sedan/GC, I wouldn't have the F80 right now. I would have one of those....sigh...

[omasou]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

...
In the 2 series lineup there is a coupe only. No hatchback, no sedan, no accompanying 1 series platform. No attempt to maximize profit from variants of the same platform. In Europe however there are 1ers in three and 5 door guise.

BMW instead hopes for all Americans buy X1 and X3. Then double down and add in X2 and X4 while all the while dictating to the marketplace the following...

Maybe as you say BMW NA realizes US wants SUVs not small cars though BMW does have Mini for the small car segment. In fact Ford just said as much and is in the process of dropping all their cars in favor of SUVs and trucks.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

M3 Adjuster

Completely agree...if they'd made a 1M 5 door or M2 sedan/GC, I wouldn't have the F80 right now. I would have one of those....sigh...

I really like the pictures that I have seen of the 1 series 5 door!

I asked for a X1 loaner with plans to dump the X5 but unfortunately X1 is not up to par but I'm probably spoiled by how flat the the active suspension keeps the X5 in turns.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by omasou

Maybe as you say BMW NA realizes US wants SUVs not small cars though BMW does have Mini for the small car segment. In fact Ford just said as much and is in the process of dropping all their cars in favor of SUVs and trucks.

The ratio of 3/4 series being sold to 2 series is like 8 to 1.... and the simple fact is.. many people that have an F30/F80 would actually have bought a smaller car.

look at Mercedes....

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...es-27207-Units

https://media.mbusa.com/releases/mer...les-april-2018

CLA sales UP... 7500 cars in 4 MONTHS.



MERCEDES is on pace to sell 22,000 CLA SEDANS... vs BMW selling 12,000 2er coupes (with no sedan) in the US in 2019. That's a lot of sales that BMW is missing out on. And of course Audi and VW are certainly having no problems selling compact sedans in the US..


https://media.audiusa.com/en-us/releases/240

Audi on pace for 18,000 A3 this year.. but last year at this time was on pace for 24,000 again.. double the 2er sale

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I'm confident it's the latter. I have background in sales and can certainly recognize sales/marketing strategy.

The entire 2 series lineup is simply shortchanged. It's clear that from the beginning there is little investment in plant production or design.

BMW wants to sell 3er and 4er in the US. They have expanded that platform from coupe and sedan to include gran coupe and GT.

In the 2 series lineup there is a coupe only. No hatchback, no sedan, no accompanying 1 series platform. No attempt to maximize profit from variants of the same platform. In Europe however there are 1ers in three and 5 door guise.

.

Well, there IS a convertible And now an X2... late to the party, but I think they're catching on..

[BurpZilla]

Also rumors of a m2 gran coupe

http://www.bmwblog.com/2018/02/02/ru...upe-resurface/

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by omasou

I really like the pictures that I have seen of the 1 series 5 door!

I asked for a X1 loaner with plans to dump the X5 but unfortunately X1 is not up to par but I'm probably spoiled by how flat the the active suspension keeps the X5 in turns.

I have an E84 X1 which is on. RWD platform.

The F48 second generation X1 is FWD/AWD platform and is of no interest to me and neither is a FWD/AWD 2 series gran coupe.

Will BMW go back to its roots and " go hard " on the next generation 2 series.. by making both a coupe and a sedan and perhaps even a hatchback/shooting brake ... making them RWD?

Or.. do they decide to keep the 2 series as a miniaturized version of the 3/4 series and keep it as a coupe in RWD but go with a milquetoast FWD/AWD sedan from a separate platform.

What we already know ... (see the sales chart above ) is that whatever BMW does with the 2 series platform... it will sell in greater numbers as a sedan than the coupe. Just like every other model in the car and the SUV lineup.


3 outsells 4
5 outsells 6
7 ... outsells 8 (cancelled now revived ?)

X1 outsells X2 "coupe"
X3 outsells X4 " coupe "
X5 outsells X6 Coupe
X7 coming...

I3 outsells I8


Which makes you wonder why they ever sold a 1 series as coupe only In the US and not a compact sedan variant first !

In 4 years .. will BMW be saying ... gee whillickers ... we didn't know people would want a M2er gran coupe ( read : sedan) more than they would want an M2 coupe




Heck.. what if Mercedes sold a CLA coupe along with sedan.. would they be killing BMW even more right now ?

[omasou]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

...

Which makes you wonder why they ever sold a 1 series as coupe only In the US and not a compact sedan variant first !

...

It use to be so simple E30/E36 2 doors, 4 door and convertibles and M cars were 2 coupes (I think this is correct). Then w/the E36 they started selling M in 4 door and convertibles. I never liked that. Then the M5 came out and it seemed simple. M car = coupe, if you wanted 4 doors buy a M5.

Then I thought BMW cleaned it up and said odd number = 4 doors and even = coupe/convertible. Which to your point I thought the 1 series would be the 4 door compact/entry level car for families.

Then BMW introduced grand coupes. Not sure of the timelines but to me, who was not paying much attention to the market appeared to be a answer to MB rather than an answer to a consumer need/want.

Then we have the touring hatch back things. Not really sure why they exist.

Guess this is what happens when Marketing runs the company w/o input from parts and logistics. I can't imagine the money they would save in inventory, shipping and manuals, etc. buy simplifying the lines, but what the hell do I know.

[qnet]

While I'm not as knowledgeable about the situation, I agree with M3 Adjuster about the 2 series. I watch a guy on Youtube (Joe Achilies?) who had a M2, but now has a M140. I really like the look of those, and although I love coupes, would have considered getting one, if they were available in the U.S.

A lot of people I've ran across, in my city; know very little about the 2 series. When I had my M235i, I always got compliments and questions. It goes without saying it's the same with the M2.

[akkando]

The plan is to wait until late 2019 or early 2020 and try not to buy a m2c, the last of the DCT BMW cars...

if the next gen has significant weight savings then a MT g series m2 is interesting. Perhaps we'll know more about it by early 2020? I feel like weight savings is unlikely?

I may want to weave in an e9x m in there somewhere.