N55B30T0 vs. N55B30O0 - what will be the differences?

Anthony1s · 03-27-2019, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroEmissionZ

My understanding was the internals on the M2 are identical just forged , someone else also said if you removed the intake, turbo, and oil pan swapping them over it would work. I just got quoted on the crankshaft $3700 AUD

not including labour or any other part :'( how do I get myself out of this mess :'(

Ok, I was looking through your other thread and understand a bit more. You bought a non-running salvage car. So no insurance or warranty.

Couple options I can think of:

- See if there is any fine print or anything that might let you return the car to the place you bought it from.

- Take the chance. Try to find any 2014+ N55 (previous N55's have PWGs, so I don't think they will work) then pray that everything goes smoothly and works out with the swap. There are some N55s on ebay australia for sub $7000AU

- Swap the motor and transmission for a small block chevy LS or similar. Gut the car and turn it into a "race car" Sell the M2 transmission, dash, computers, airbags, whatever else won't work to a junkyard to recoup some money.

- Cut your losses ASAP. Don't do any engine swap and just sell the car to a junkyard. I know there are some exotic junkyard that might give you more money for it. Shop around and see who gives you the best price. Might be worth it to ship the car to a junkyard if they give you more than anyone local.

- Hold onto the M2 in hopes of another salvage one popping up with a good engine.

ZeroEmissionZ · 03-28-2019, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Ok, I was looking through your other thread and understand a bit more. You bought a non-running salvage car. So no insurance or warranty.

Couple options I can think of:

- See if there is any fine print or anything that might let you return the car to the place you bought it from.

- Take the chance. Try to find any 2014+ N55 (previous N55's have PWGs, so I don't think they will work) then pray that everything goes smoothly and works out with the swap. There are some N55s on ebay australia for sub $7000AU

- Swap the motor and transmission for a small block chevy LS or similar. Gut the car and turn it into a "race car" Sell the M2 transmission, dash, computers, airbags, whatever else won't work to a junkyard to recoup some money.

- Cut your losses ASAP. Don't do any engine swap and just sell the car to a junkyard. I know there are some exotic junkyard that might give you more money for it. Shop around and see who gives you the best price. Might be worth it to ship the car to a junkyard if they give you more than anyone local.

- Hold onto the M2 in hopes of another salvage one popping up with a good engine.

So would me buying a 2016 model M135i motor bare block , if I remove my turbo , inlet manifold, and oil sump , etc bolt and and should do ?

there is one for sale he's asking $3000 which I could live with at least the car will drive and not go to complete waste, for the next guy to buy it on the presumption at auction that it might be just a little issue only to find out he has a blown motor is pretty slack so I won't be doing that, will it work or am I taking risks and gambles her, with unknown outcomes? From what I have learnt that the motors are exactly the same with different oil pan, turbo, and inlet manifolds , also the internals are forged for track (harder driving, and more boost etc)

gandapanda · 03-28-2019, 08:59 AM

Just LS swap the damm thing, lol.

What you're doing is pretty risky from my pov. Tuning, reliability, driveability... too many things to consider with a one-off setup like this. But that's just me.

S

dmboone25 · 03-28-2019, 09:02 AM

Is the idea for a swap based upon wanting a cool project? Just to see if you can do it?

Poochie · 03-28-2019, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroEmissionZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Ok, I was looking through your other thread and understand a bit more. You bought a non-running salvage car. So no insurance or warranty.

Couple options I can think of:

- See if there is any fine print or anything that might let you return the car to the place you bought it from.

- Take the chance. Try to find any 2014+ N55 (previous N55's have PWGs, so I don't think they will work) then pray that everything goes smoothly and works out with the swap. There are some N55s on ebay australia for sub $7000AU

- Swap the motor and transmission for a small block chevy LS or similar. Gut the car and turn it into a "race car" Sell the M2 transmission, dash, computers, airbags, whatever else won't work to a junkyard to recoup some money.

- Cut your losses ASAP. Don't do any engine swap and just sell the car to a junkyard. I know there are some exotic junkyard that might give you more money for it. Shop around and see who gives you the best price. Might be worth it to ship the car to a junkyard if they give you more than anyone local.

- Hold onto the M2 in hopes of another salvage one popping up with a good engine.

So would me buying a 2016 model M135i motor bare block , if I remove my turbo , inlet manifold, and oil sump , etc bolt and and should do ?

there is one for sale he's asking $3000 which I could live with at least the car will drive and not go to complete waste, for the next guy to buy it on the presumption at auction that it might be just a little issue only to find out he has a blown motor is pretty slack so I won't be doing that, will it work or am I taking risks and gambles her, with unknown outcomes? From what I have learnt that the motors are exactly the same with different oil pan, turbo, and inlet manifolds , also the internals are forged for track (harder driving, and more boost etc)

Sorry bro, cut your loses now and get rid of what's left of that car.

Me and a buddy tried to get into the business of buying salvage auction cars to fix back and sell for profit - we took a loss on all of them.

The funniest vehicle was a new Acura TSX that had a shell of a motor but nothing inside the block, empty. The second one had a bent frame and could never be aligned properly. Lesson learned.

Unless you own a show where you can save on the labor and discounted parts, you're going to be in the red after everything is said and done.

McPurrs · 03-28-2019, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroEmissionZ

So would me buying a 2016 model M135i motor bare block , if I remove my turbo , inlet manifold, and oil sump , etc bolt and and should do ?

there is one for sale he's asking $3000 which I could live with at least the car will drive and not go to complete waste, for the next guy to buy it on the presumption at auction that it might be just a little issue only to find out he has a blown motor is pretty slack so I won't be doing that, will it work or am I taking risks and gambles her, with unknown outcomes? From what I have learnt that the motors are exactly the same with different oil pan, turbo, and inlet manifolds , also the internals are forged for track (harder driving, and more boost etc)

The internals are not forged... I would not do it. The M2 has no boost limitation and will make whatever the DME thinks it can. Something like that. How will you keep from blowing this new engine up if the internals are not forged for high boost targets?

Anthony1s · 03-28-2019, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroEmissionZ

So would me buying a 2016 model M135i motor bare block , if I remove my turbo , inlet manifold, and oil sump , etc bolt and and should do ?

there is one for sale he's asking $3000 which I could live with at least the car will drive and not go to complete waste, for the next guy to buy it on the presumption at auction that it might be just a little issue only to find out he has a blown motor is pretty slack so I won't be doing that, will it work or am I taking risks and gambles her, with unknown outcomes? From what I have learnt that the motors are exactly the same with different oil pan, turbo, and inlet manifolds , also the internals are forged for track (harder driving, and more boost etc)

It's definitely risky and unexplored territory. No one can say for sure if it will work or what issues you will run into along the way. But YOU have to be the one to decide if you want to take that risk and will be okay if it does't work out.

Poochie · 03-28-2019, 10:22 AM

The only internal mechanical difference between the M235i and M2's N55 is the M2 uses the S55 pistons and the crankshaft bearings.

Everything else seems to be identical to the N55 from the 235i.

Never heard of any highly tuned standard N55 blowing pistons or crankshaft bearings, so its necessity is debatably.

Good read below from page 23..

https://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfo...l-training.pdf

Anthony1s · 03-28-2019, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie

The only internal mechanical difference between the M235i and M2's N55 is the M2 uses the S55 pistons and the crankshaft bearings.

Everything else seems to be identical to the N55 from the 235i.

Never heard of any highly tuned standard N55 blowing pistons or crankshaft bearings, so its necessity is debatably.

Good read below from page 23..

https://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfo...l-training.pdf

Not sure if it matters, but m235i reaches max hp at 5600rpm and m2 reaches it at 6600rpm. Maybe the better pistons and bearings help with that.

Poochie · 03-28-2019, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie

The only internal mechanical difference between the M235i and M2's N55 is the M2 uses the S55 pistons and the crankshaft bearings.

Everything else seems to be identical to the N55 from the 235i.

Never heard of any highly tuned standard N55 blowing pistons or crankshaft bearings, so its necessity is debatably.

Good read below from page 23..

https://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfo...l-training.pdf

Not sure if it matters, but m235i reaches max hp at 5600rpm and m2 reaches it at 6600rpm. Maybe the better pistons and bearings help with that.

Yes, that's true, I just gave my educated guess.

I did a Google search and I did not find any failures for those parts, with any other variants of the N55. Even the N55 HP version of the N55 which is in the X4 and 740i uses the standard hardware (non S55).

A lot of failures for charge pipe, turbo for highly tune vehicles, and water pumps no but no pistons or bearings for the N55.

I guess they figured the M2 is a vehicle is that's more than likely going to dogged at the track and which is pushing more power, including the short spike in Overboost, so they threw in the stronger pistons and bearings, for good measure.

Whether the stock N55 pistons could survive being reliably pushed to the M2's level of power, is still unknown. Longevity and reliability are hard to assess with these motors, in all variants

:

The gauges in the iDrive does go all the way up to 400hp/tq, I always took that as unofficial sign of what the N55 could reliable push.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N55

McPurrs · 03-28-2019, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie

Whether the stock N55 pistons could survive being reliably pushed to the M2's level of power, is still unknown.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N55

I would say it was well known to the engineers what the pistons could survive, and they made the choice the way they did because of it.

akkando · 03-28-2019, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie

Yes, that's true, I just gave my educated guess.

I did a Google search and I did not find any failures for those parts, with any other variants of the N55. Even the N55 HP version of the N55 which is in the X4 and 740i uses the standard hardware (non S55).

A lot of failures for charge pipe, turbo for highly tune vehicles, and water pumps no but no pistons or bearings for the N55.

I guess they figured the M2 is a vehicle is that's more than likely going to dogged at the track and which is pushing more power, including the short spike in Overboost, so they threw in the stronger pistons and bearings, for good measure.

Whether the stock N55 pistons could survive being reliably pushed to the M2's level of power, is still unknown. Longevity and reliability are hard to assess with these motors, in all variants

:

The gauges in the iDrive does go all the way up to 400hp/tq, I always took that as unofficial sign of what the N55 could reliable push.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N55

I mean he could always get a custom tune to put it at m235i power levels and boost targets.

Poochie · 03-28-2019, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akkando

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie

Yes, that's true, I just gave my educated guess.

I did a Google search and I did not find any failures for those parts, with any other variants of the N55. Even the N55 HP version of the N55 which is in the X4 and 740i uses the standard hardware (non S55).

A lot of failures for charge pipe, turbo for highly tune vehicles, and water pumps no but no pistons or bearings for the N55.

I guess they figured the M2 is a vehicle is that's more than likely going to dogged at the track and which is pushing more power, including the short spike in Overboost, so they threw in the stronger pistons and bearings, for good measure.

Whether the stock N55 pistons could survive being reliably pushed to the M2's level of power, is still unknown. Longevity and reliability are hard to assess with these motors, in all variants

:

The gauges in the iDrive does go all the way up to 400hp/tq, I always took that as unofficial sign of what the N55 could reliable push.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N55

I mean he could always get a custom tune to put it at m235i power levels and boost targets.

In theory, he could, if he finds a tuner willing to work with him; as a BMW dealer would not assist in re-reflashing a salvage vehicle's ECU, especially a 135/235 mapping into an M2.

But the whole project and end results seems questionable, unless he considers if a hobby car and not an official M2.

Anthony1s · 03-28-2019, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akkando

I mean he could always get a custom tune to put it at m235i power levels and boost targets.

The upgraded parts are for longevity during track use, not to increase power. But I realize that raises the question of "does a lower power motor last longer?"

ZeroEmissionZ · 03-30-2019, 05:43 AM

I haven't even started to strip down my motor to see how bad it actually is, I do know that someone tested it and told me that only cylinder one has 180psi compression and the rest have between 50-80psi on this presumption the motor needs to be rebuilt or replaced.

I cant find an M2 motor anywhere and if I did it would be $15,000 minimum which is not pocket change to anyone! I am able to source many standard N55 motors and also a few out of M135i which is why I am looking at doing this to resolve my issue, it isn't a project I am trying to experiment, or a "can one put a 135i motor into an M2" anyone can put any motor into any car realistically.

I want to know if it will be a situation where it would all bolt up and "plug and play so to speak", or will I be ripping apart my motor and only using the internals from the M135i motor? and "will they fit?" I dont want to put in parts then turn the motor over to hear crunch , crack and kaboom! and be back at the same place I am today to have to start all over again! , and I also dont want to put the car into the auction "As it is" and some poor bloke comes along thinking ah the motor isn't starting "maybe just a relay or fuse".

I want to get the car back up and running but not have to spend $20,000. I also bought the car as it is, and it was driving and then one day it just turned off, the oil had run out of the oil cooler for about 2 minutes at most and never turned back on after that moment. :'(

Taskmaster · 03-30-2019, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Not sure if it matters, but m235i reaches max hp at 5600rpm and m2 reaches it at 6600rpm. Maybe the better pistons and bearings help with that.

That’s likely a result of a better turbo exhaust manifold and more aggressive tune that targets more peak power through boost and timing, near redline.

OP, you can swap the block over (use an M235i or X40i) and swap all the sensors, oil pan and pick up, and turbo and turbo manifold.

M Fifty · 03-30-2019, 11:01 AM

The pistons appear to be the only M2-specific parts, with the rest being common with other models with N and S engines

Although the block doesn't appear to be available separately for the M2.

Anthony1s · 03-30-2019, 12:56 PM

Taskmaster · 03-30-2019, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

That’s likely a result of a better turbo exhaust manifold and more aggressive tune that targets more peak power through boost and timing, near redline.

OP, you can swap the block over (use an M235i or X40i) and swap all the sensors, oil pan and pick up, and turbo and turbo manifold.

^^^

Poochie · 03-30-2019, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Browsing realoem.com to compare m235i and m2 engine.

Flywheel is different
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_3187
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5620

Cool, I didn't know the M2 has a 6 pounds lighter flywheel that the standard N55, it was never mentioned.

That helps with faster reviving, however a heavy flywheel is better for inertia (better street driving).

For the record, it was established when the M2 came out that it doesn't have a unique turbo; it was the same unit from the F30 335i.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=21257468

Did you manually make the comparisons or you searched an easier way?

Daleb · 03-30-2019, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie

For the record, it was established when the M2 came out that it doesn't have a unique turbo; it was the same unit from the F30 335i.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=21257468

Incorrect.

M2
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part?id=1J52-EUR-07-2017-F87N-BMW-M2&mg=11&sg=50&diagId=11_6677&q=11658053153

335i
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part?id=3A92-EUR-06-2015-F30-BMW-335i&mg=11&sg=50&diagId=11_4473&q=11657643115

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=3A93-USA-11-2011-F30-BMW-335i&diagId=11_6463

Even looking at logs alone you can see the M2 turbo flows better over the regular n55s

Poochie · 03-30-2019, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daleb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poochie

For the record, it was established when the M2 came out that it doesn't have a unique turbo; it was the same unit from the F30 335i.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=21257468

Incorrect.

M2
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...;q=11658053153

335i
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...;q=11657643115

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_6463

Even looking at logs alone you can see the M2 turbo flows better over the regular n55s

No.. Correct..

Right before the M2 was released, there were a couple of discussions on the discrepancies of the motor (open or close block) and the turbo.

It was established that the M2 had the turbo from the N55 335i (not the 235i) and the blowoff valve from the N20. At the time, RealOEM verified this factual data. Since then, they removed this cross-reference to the turbo with the 335i

What's the point anyway? It's the same dimension; shell and wheel, as all the standard N55s turbos, so it makes no difference in potential power output or efficiency.

What logs of 'better flow' are you referring to? The M2 might be pushing more boost but that only because it's tune that way, not because of any mechanical enhancement of the turbo.

03-28-2019, 08:59 AM	#69
gandapanda Private First Class 56 Rep 131 Posts Drives: 18 M2 & 19 Sentra Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Toronto & Detroit iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M2 [0.00] 2005 Subaru Foreste ... [0.00]	Just LS swap the damm thing, lol. What you're doing is pretty risky from my pov. Tuning, reliability, driveability... too many things to consider with a one-off setup like this. But that's just me. S
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03-28-2019, 09:02 AM	#70
dmboone25 Lieutenant General 4972 Rep 10,200 Posts Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 E92 328i [10.00] 2007 328i [10.00]	Is the idea for a swap based upon wanting a cool project? Just to see if you can do it? __________________ Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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03-28-2019, 10:22 AM	#74
Poochie Luxury at the redline :) 9105 Rep 7,563 Posts Drives: 2016 M2 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: NYC iTrader: (3)	The only internal mechanical difference between the M235i and M2's N55 is the M2 uses the S55 pistons and the crankshaft bearings. Everything else seems to be identical to the N55 from the 235i. Never heard of any highly tuned standard N55 blowing pistons or crankshaft bearings, so its necessity is debatably. Good read below from page 23.. https://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfo...l-training.pdf Attached Images
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03-30-2019, 05:43 AM	#81
ZeroEmissionZ Private 18 Rep 50 Posts Drives: i3 Join Date: May 2017 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	I haven't even started to strip down my motor to see how bad it actually is, I do know that someone tested it and told me that only cylinder one has 180psi compression and the rest have between 50-80psi on this presumption the motor needs to be rebuilt or replaced. I cant find an M2 motor anywhere and if I did it would be $15,000 minimum which is not pocket change to anyone! I am able to source many standard N55 motors and also a few out of M135i which is why I am looking at doing this to resolve my issue, it isn't a project I am trying to experiment, or a "can one put a 135i motor into an M2" anyone can put any motor into any car realistically. I want to know if it will be a situation where it would all bolt up and "plug and play so to speak", or will I be ripping apart my motor and only using the internals from the M135i motor? and "will they fit?" I dont want to put in parts then turn the motor over to hear crunch , crack and kaboom! and be back at the same place I am today to have to start all over again! , and I also dont want to put the car into the auction "As it is" and some poor bloke comes along thinking ah the motor isn't starting "maybe just a relay or fuse". I want to get the car back up and running but not have to spend $20,000. I also bought the car as it is, and it was driving and then one day it just turned off, the oil had run out of the oil cooler for about 2 minutes at most and never turned back on after that moment. :'(
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03-30-2019, 11:01 AM	#83
M Fifty Banned 844 Rep 1,962 Posts Drives: M2 & 330CI Join Date: May 2018 Location: The Interweb iTrader: (0)	The pistons appear to be the only M2-specific parts, with the rest being common with other models with N and S engines Although the block doesn't appear to be available separately for the M2.
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03-30-2019, 12:56 PM	#84
Anthony1s Banned 756 Rep 2,149 Posts Drives: 2018 Mineral Grey M2 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Pennsylvania iTrader: (0)	Browsing realoem.com to compare m235i and m2 engine. Oil pan is different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4448 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5919 Ignition coil cover is different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4452 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4452 Vibration Damper uses a different bolt https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4453 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4453 Alternator/AC defelction pulley is different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4454 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_6613 Pistons are different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4456 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4456 Flywheel is different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_3187 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5620 Oil Suction Pump Different - non existant on m235i http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5602 Lubrication System/Oil Pump Different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4463 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5603 Oil Thermostat and filter some other stuff different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4465 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5606 Some coolant hoses different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_5169 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5169 Turbo charger different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4473 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_6677 Turbo oil supply screws are different https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_4474 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4474 Granted some of this stuff is minor things. I just wanted to put together a basic list of different part numbers between the two. Whatever engine he gets, I think it would be best to compare part numbers from it on realoem to get an idea of what is physically different, then go from there.
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