[No Boost]

Like many other M2 owners, I like to browse the M3/4 subforums. Some Phanatical enthusiasts like us reside there. They're very partial to their F8x's, almost to a fault. But hey, so are we. Let's not judge. There's a disturbing trend happening though since the inception of that German muscle car. And that is poor off-the-line traction. We're talking dry, warm asphalt, perfect conditions driving here. I read endless posts about how their cars could easily smoke X car if only it were a roll race or if a perfect launch was performed. The simple answer, or cop out, is that the car possesses too much torque. I'm not buying that. There are many other front engine/rear drive cars with higher TQ outputs than the F80/82/83. So my question is to current M2 owners, stock or tuned. How is your "hook up" traction? The magazine testers say a stock M2 is brilliant in that regard. I'd assume this is the norm for owners as well. If memory serves, Bruce (Dinan stage 4) has issues, whereas auf Deutsch (also stage 4) has none...1st gear notwithstanding of course. I also have stage 4 including a Fabspeed downpipe for extra grunt. From 2nd gear onwards, on dry roadways, the car is a slingshot folks. I'm very satisfied and even more so surprised. Stock 265 Contis as well. Go figure.

[Aronis]

Hooking up, i.e. not slipping requires careful application of the accelerator pedal. If you just stand on the thing in Sport Plus or even Sport, OF COURSE it is going to spin the tires, more so if you have traction control turned off. In Sport Plus if I hit it hard there is some wheel spin but the traction control is not fully off in this setting and it limits the spin. I can feel the car sliding sideways a bit (even if doing accelerating hard at highway speeds) so I know there is slippage. If you use the Sport setting there is less wheel spin.

I don't get the people talking about 'too much torque.' I could get the tires spinning in my 1994 Honda Accord and my 1997 Honda CRX and neither had "too much torque." My '94 325is and '97 M3 could spin the tires too with the traction control off. My kids current 2013 Civic and also spin the tires if you start out too hard. I am not sure what 'too much torque' has to do with the fact that too quick a change in torque (i.e. zero with the car in park to then moving) can make you loose traction. It's the rate of change that makes the tires overcome the surface friction, not the actual amount of torque. Huge amounts of steady torque will not suddenly cause the tires to spin unless there is a change in the road surface, otherwise freight trains would go nowhere fast!

Yes the M2 can FAIL to hook up if you just slam the gas to the floor. That is what the launch 'control' is for. The car uses the slip sensors to modulate throttle probably better than you or I could. With practice you can launch plenty fast with minimal spin.

Practice, Practice, Practice.

My RS6 does not have trouble 'hooking up' as it has all wheel drive.

Mike

[mrcheezle19]

slap some Mickey's on.
/thread

[M2 CSL]

Could use more hp, but it would suffer from more torque IMO. Hopefully they don't mess up the CS.

[Ian ///M]

I actually WOT from a standstill for the first time today; it was awesome. Slight slip thru 2nd and another in 3rd. Think it hooks up pretty well for a stock car

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Aronis

I am not sure what 'too much torque' has to do with the fact that too quick a change in torque (i.e. zero with the car in park to then moving) can make you loose traction. It's the rate of change that makes the tires overcome the surface friction, not the actual amount of torque. Huge amounts of steady torque will not suddenly cause the tires to spin unless there is a change in the road surface, otherwise freight trains would go nowhere fast!

Both of torque change rate and the amount of torque are the causes of slippage.

M2 is more planted than M3/4 despite of having more torque surge down low.

[ddk632]

I think what Aronis said is spot on.

Executing a smooth launch is an art, and there's more to it than just mashing the gas pedal and releasing the clutch.

The higher the torque at low revs, the more finesse required for a smooth launch.

A lot of the M3/M4 guys put tunes on that significantly increase torque and it's plausible that if they are using launch control that the programming wasn't designed with those levels of output in mind and can't keep up. Just speculating.

My M2 just has a sport cat downpipe and I won't say I am 100% there, but more often than not I can get a good launch with minimal spin. It's a balance because if there is no spin probably you could have a faster launch.

Anyway this car is more fun once it's already going, the road is the M2s natural habitat. We can leave the stop light GP to the M5 guys haha.

[Em-Two]

I once saw a Pontiac firebird hook up with a tent. They named their baby Aztec.

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by Em-Two

I once saw a Pontiac firebird hook up with a tent. They named their baby Aztec.

Nice!

Man if it were not for it's use in Breaking Bad those Aztec's would be up for Ugliest Car EVER!

Mike

[Aronis]

Oh, by the way, with the snows on the car, there is a lot less hooking up and a lot more slip and slide if you hit it. LOL......drifting.....easily....

Mike

[ZPrime]

Originally Posted by mrcheezle19

slap some Mickey's on.
/thread

Just hope you don't snap propshafts then

[BruceM]

As I've said in other posts, I do get some wheel slip at WOT in first (quite a bit), second (less) and third (even less) on a Dinan Stage 4. And that slip isn't all about white smoke and seconds of burn out until I hook up, either. Just loss of some momentum and a traction light flash if I still have it engaged. But if I roll on the power on the way to WOT, instead of mashing it in one quick motion, I can limit the phenomenon significantly in all gears.

I still think stickier and wider rubber is going to help this, though, so that plan awaits the summer...

[mercedesc63]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

Like many other M2 owners, I like to browse the M3/4 subforums. Some Phanatical enthusiasts like us reside there. They're very partial to their F8x's, almost to a fault. But hey, so are we. Let's not judge. There's a disturbing trend happening though since the inception of that German muscle car. And that is poor off-the-line traction. We're talking dry, warm asphalt, perfect conditions driving here. I read endless posts about how their cars could easily smoke X car if only it were a roll race or if a perfect launch was performed. The simple answer, or cop out, is that the car possesses too much torque. I'm not buying that. There are many other front engine/rear drive cars with higher TQ outputs than the F80/82/83. So my question is to current M2 owners, stock or tuned. How is your "hook up" traction? The magazine testers say a stock M2 is brilliant in that regard. I'd assume this is the norm for owners as well. If memory serves, Bruce (Dinan stage 4) has issues, whereas auf Deutsch (also stage 4) has none...1st gear notwithstanding of course. I also have stage 4 including a Fabspeed downpipe for extra grunt. From 2nd gear onwards, on dry roadways, the car is a slingshot folks. I'm very satisfied and even more so surprised. Stock 265 Contis as well. Go figure.

I think comparing the M2 and M3/M4 in terms of straight line speed alone is not a good comparison... F8x pulls on the M2 and old E9x M3 so hard.

The F8x has 425hp and 410tq
The F87 365hp and 343 tq

The power is significantly higher in the F8x plus the rear tires aren't wide enough. Which is what is causing the off the line traction issues.

M2 shouldn't really have the same issues as the F8x hooking up. It also really has its own set of advantages.

[johnnydad]

I'm struggling to follow the point of this poll - surely the level of traction is the result of various factors and is not absolute. As in the difference is not down to the car, rather to the driver, temp, tyre condition and surface?

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by johnnydad

I'm struggling to follow the point of this poll - surely the level of traction is the result of various factors and is not absolute. As in the difference is not down to the car, rather to the driver, temp, tyre condition and surface?

M3/4 owners generally have problems getting power to the ground. Being an M2 owner with modified engine output of an M3/4, I do not. I'm trying to gauge others' responses.

[auf Deutsch]

The M engineers dialed this car in. I peak at over 400 wtq and with 1st gear notwithstanding, traction on dry pavement isn't an issue WOT.

[serrated]

depends on surface / temperature

I have stage 4 dinan kit so the power isn't stock and that traction light works overtime in the first two gears. (but occasionally it grips fine all the way through second depending on the road surface, but other surfaces I'll even get squirrelly in 3rd)