[BurpZilla]

https://www.motor1.com/news/143283/bmw-m-no-manuals/


Something that we have all discussed and have known for a while. Its seriously disappointing that the manual is going to die out. If BMW does not offer a manual I will move on to a different company, i'll chase the manual around till the day I die. (Thank you Porsche for listening to the people). The R8 was the car of my dreams until the 2nd gen came out...

Would you stop buying cars just because of the transmission?

[chris719]

They will make them as long as there is enough demand. I can see DCT going away though.

[BurpZilla]

Hopefully!!

Current demand in the BMW market is 20%, gotta keep teaching people how to drive manuals otherwise in a generation or two it'll go away!

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2017/1/2...iasts-7737487/

[pruettfan]

The head of M just a few weeks ago spoke in detail about the fact that they will continue to make manual transmissions for the M models like M2,3 and 4 as long as people are willing to buy them.

Manual transmissions in general are already a niche and their days are likely numbered but BMW and Porsche have both voiced their commitment to manuals as long as folks will buy them.

Technology always changes so DCT's will likely get replaced at some point with conventional automatic transmissions because they are getting very good. I suspect we are several years away from that though.

As the push towards efficient and autonomous vehicles continue over the next decade we are going to see all kinds of things car folks are not going to like. I won't be surprised when the day comes that we have to fight for the right to even control our own car because it will be safer to ride in an autonomous car. Driving a car will be a recreational activity, we will go through the same transition as took place between the horse and cars 80 or so years ago.

[pruettfan]

Take a look at this. I would believe the CEO over the marketing guy

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1347963

[m34m]

Apparently this settles the never ending Manual vs DCT debate. BOTH will soon be history:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/04/21/bm...ons-soon-gone/

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by BurpZilla

https://www.motor1.com/news/143283/bmw-m-no-manuals/


Something that we have all discussed and have known for a while. Its seriously disappointing that the manual is going to die out. If BMW does not offer a manual I will move on to a different company, i'll chase the manual around till the day I die. (Thank you Porsche for listening to the people). The R8 was the car of my dreams until the 2nd gen came out...

Would you stop buying cars just because of the transmission?

Yes, I will not buy a sports car with an automatic transmission. It has ZERO appeal to me at all.

[TunedM2C]

I'm not saying it's millennials but...

[RAM_F30_F87]

I don't see the manual transmission going away anytime soon in the lower number true M series models as there are still enough of us that want the visceral feel of shifting. If BMW abandons them too soon, I'm sure there will be those of us that start considering other makes. I can understand it in the upper models where they tend to be more 'boulevard cruisers' and people haven't been buying manuals. I can also see them not being offered in the 'psuedo' M models that BMW is marketing.

[Black Gold]

Other than their desire to phase out fun, the frustrating part is the bull sh&t and the lies

Dct style transmissions can clearly handle torque. All day long. See the 911 turbo and Ferrari 488

Maybe it's not cost effective and the autos are cheaper.

But it sure as sh&t isn't because they can't handle torque

The manual argument is similarly ridiculous.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by Black Gold

Other than their desire to phase out fun, the frustrating part is the bull sh&t and the lies

Dct style transmissions can clearly handle torque. All day long. See the 911 turbo and Ferrari 488

Maybe it's not cost effective and the autos are cheaper.

But it sure as sh&t isn't because they can't handle torque

The manual argument is similarly ridiculous.

Read the link I posted above. This is no longer a DCT vs Manual discussion as BOTH are going to be phased out. That really sucks.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by m34m

Read the link I posted above. This is no longer a DCT vs Manual discussion as BOTH are going to be phased out. That really sucks.

I know. That's why I said the excuse that dct can't handle torque as their reasoning is absurd because there are many high torque cars running dct, also including gtr, with no issues.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by Black Gold

I know. That's why I said the excuse that dct can't handle torque as their reasoning is absurd because there are many high torque cars running dct, also including gtr, with no issues.

Yup it's ridiculous and all in the name of cost savings. I can tell you this; Porsche is moving in the right direction while BMW does the opposite. Big mistake. Can you imagine Porsche phasing out their legendary PDK for a ZF slushbox? No way. Every 911 and 718 can be had with manual or PDK and now that includes the GT3. No excuses about low uptake of manuals they just do what's right. If this rumor is true I'm disgusted and will no longer be a BMW customer. I'm very curious what they do with the M2 CS and GTS but I think the writing is on the wall.

[johnnydad]

I can't see the powerplants of the not-too-distant future being compatible with manuals anyway.

[ZPrime]

Hell, even the VW DSG can hold a lot of torque with aftermarket software. I know one of the US-based tuners who has done a lot of DSG work, they've taken the DQ250 (rated for 250 N·m of torque) and have that holding ~650 N·m on stock clutches with just software.

And that is VW's crappy / low torque DSG box... They also have the DQ500 (another transverse application) that is rated for 500 N·m stock. Presumably tuning could take this further pretty easily, but that box doesn't exist anywhere in the US to my knowledge... yet. (This is probably the box they put on the Mk3 TTRS and the new RS3.)

[Destroya]

Originally Posted by johnnydad

I can't see the powerplants of the not-too-distant future being compatible with manuals anyway.

Yup, just lean back and control it with your smart phone.

[ClothSeats]

Wow, he really doesn't like the Tremec.. and doesn't the torque-rich M5/M6 already come with a stick? These sound like excuses to not invest in the manual.

[johnnydad]

Originally Posted by Destroya

Yup, just lean back and control it with your smart phone.

AWD with full control of torque vectoring to each wheel, interactive 4WS, could be a riot!

[STK]

A thread about MT vs DCT vs auto will look like a relic in 10-20 years when most of the cars will be autonomous. That's the future like it or not. Most people, esp in urban and suburban areas, won't even own cars. It'll be autonomous Uber/Lyft/whatever. It'll be mostly electric. Enthusiasts will have a car stored at the track. Or drive in the non-controlled zones between major urban areas along with the autonomous semis. Maybe there'll be the equivalent of dude ranches.
Did I say 3 million drivers/delivery jobs will be lost? Remember before smartphones? Not many under 25 do.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by TunedM2

I'm not saying it's millennials but...

It's not millenials. It's mom and dad who grew up driving automatics and don't actually know how to drive stick. They aren't passing those skills down. The idea of driving being fun and car culture is also not being passed down. It's not milennial's fault they just don't know much else.

I was lucky enough to get my hands on an old shitbox to learn on. Having to learn on a test drive, on the other hand, is probably pretty daunting.

I suspect this (the fear of the unknown, lack of training) has MUCH more to do with the pickup in autos than the lap time improvements they bring.

[IS+1]

Originally Posted by BurpZilla

https://www.motor1.com/news/143283/bmw-m-no-manuals/
If BMW does not offer a manual I will move on to a different company, i'll chase the manual around till the day I die. (Thank you Porsche for listening to the people).

I share your sentiments exactly. I will always choose manual as long as I have a functioning left leg. I don't need manuals to stay around forever, just for another 35-40 years (wishful thinking I know) after which point I will likely either be dead or too decrepit to drive.

[W///]

Who cares? I want an F81 M3 Touring with a 6MT, but I know that's not in my control.

If they go extinct, I can think of 5 cars in top of my head that I'll buy used. Just make the best out of it