[AndyinHou]

Originally Posted by akkando

I think when most people say discounts they mean something like the USAA discount, fleet corporate discount, BMW CCA, etc. Basically all the non negotiated discounts where BMW pays the dealer the discount so the dealer isn't taking the hit. I know some people are negotiating a lower price, but most of the time people are getting a discount it's the same discount anyone would get on any eligible vehicle from BMW.

Does the BMW CCA apply to the M2?

[jnoyes]

Originally Posted by AndyinHou

Does the BMW CCA apply to the M2?

Yes, but not in conjunction with USAA or other fleet discount programs. That's the way I'm reading it, anyway. http://bit.ly/1rtVdr8

[ClothSeats]

Hope both M2 CS and M2 live a long prosperous life with stick shifts available.

#SaveTheManuals #LowerTheResale

[MrSelfDestruct]

Originally Posted by W///

It is what it is. It'll always be a losing battle to convince buyers nowadays (therefore the OEM's) that there is a demand for manuals. They're faster, more fuel efficient, and the final nail in the coffin is that they're more popular.

It's like trying to convince people that Tourings are cool.

The bean counters would laugh at me if I told them that my biggest wish would be to buy an F81 M3 Touring with 6MT. Now that is a unicorn.

See Porsche GT4, 911R and 991.2 GT3.

[W///]

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

See Porsche GT4, 911R and 991.2 GT3.

But for how long? That is the exception, not the norm. I can also point out that neither Ferrari or Lamborghini sells a car with 3 pedals. That would have been unthinkable 15 years ago.

Would you be at all surprised if Porsche stopped offering them after this generation? That includes NA engines too btw.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by W///

But for how long? That is the exception, not the norm. I can also point out that neither Ferrari or Lamborghini sells a car with 3 pedals. That would have been unthinkable 15 years ago.

Would you be at all surprised if Porsche stopped offering them after this generation? That includes NA engines too btw.

From my understanding, Porsche listens and reacts to their loyal customer base. If a certain aspect of a car, no manual option for example, is disliked by the customer, Porsche remedies the situation. A prime example is the 991.2 GT3.

[TunedM2C]

Moving on...

[AIRHEIR]

Originally Posted by Black Gold

That's not true at all about delivery times or discounts.

I was offered a discount on an incoming 2017 build, which I turned down for a 2018.

I was also able to get multiple dealers upcoming 2018 allocation with a delivery date estimated around 4 months from now.

I also could get multiple configurable 2017 allocations right now.

This. Same for me.

[MrSelfDestruct]

Originally Posted by W///

But for how long? That is the exception, not the norm. I can also point out that neither Ferrari or Lamborghini sells a car with 3 pedals. That would have been unthinkable 15 years ago.

Would you be at all surprised if Porsche stopped offering them after this generation? That includes NA engines too btw.

Fair enough. A year ago I would have agreed with you. However, you're ignoring the fact that Porsche created he 911R and reintroduced the manual into the 2018 GT3 due to popular demand. They had already eliminated the manual from GT cars. Clearly there is money to be made. BMW and Porsche also produce far more vehicles than Ferrari and Lamborghini and can afford to cater to a broader range of desires. Porsche is also the most profitable car manufacturer on the planet.

[MrSelfDestruct]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

From my understanding, Porsche listens and reacts to their loyal customer base. If a certain aspect of a car, no manual option for example, is disliked by the customer, Porsche remedies the situation. A prime example is the 991.2 GT3.

Exactly. Now if they would only eliminate the turbo engines in the latest Carrera/C2S/GTS...

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Exactly. Now if they would only eliminate the turbo engines in the latest Carrera/C2S/GTS...

Yeah, MT trannys and cross-drilled rotors are one thing. Going against the whole CAFE thing is another. You, I, and everyone else knows turbos are here to stay.

[MrSelfDestruct]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

Yeah, MT trannys and cross-drilled rotors are one thing. Going against the whole CAFE thing is another. You, I, and everyone else knows turbos are here to stay.

You are absolutely (unfortunately) correct. And there is nothing wrong with turbo engines but they have a different personslity. I am fortunate enough to be able to have multiple vehicles and can enjoy both NA and turbo engines. I just wish there were a few more great NA engines left.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bartginger

I agree. I envision manual M2's becoming extremely desirable and collectible, and holding value strongly in the future.

I envisioned this (and posted as such) somewhere around January of 2016 ...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by W///

But for how long? That is the exception, not the norm. I can also point out that neither Ferrari or Lamborghini sells a car with 3 pedals. That would have been unthinkable 15 years ago.

Would you be at all surprised if Porsche stopped offering them after this generation? That includes NA engines too btw.

I realize that you are continually looking... but not actively shopping... so you may want to catch up...


Porsche sees error of ways, next 911 GT3 to offer manual transmission

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/04/p...manual-report/

The New Porsche 911 GT3 Isn't All About Lap Times

At least, that's what the man who developed it told us.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...as-preuninger/

The GT department, led by Andreas Preuninger, isn't giving up on customers who chase tenths of a second on track, but it's putting in huge effort into winning back the hearts of purists. The manual transmission is back in the GT3, and it signals a big shift at the company.

"We are taking a lot of care about the driving emotion," said Preuninger, in an interview with Road & Track.
"Not so much stubbornly, seriously, German-ly chasing lap time, lap time, lap time," he said with a mock stern voice. "At least, that's not my intention anymore."

This is a philosophy that was born from the critically acclaimed–and commercially successful–manual-equipped Cayman GT4 and the 911 R. These two helped Preuninger realize that there are customers for old-school purist cars.

[W///]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I realize that you are continually looking... but not actively shopping... so you may want to catch up...


Porsche sees error of ways, next 911 GT3 to offer manual transmission

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/04/p...manual-report/

The New Porsche 911 GT3 Isn't All About Lap Times

At least, that's what the man who developed it told us.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...as-preuninger/

The GT department, led by Andreas Preuninger, isn't giving up on customers who chase tenths of a second on track, but it's putting in huge effort into winning back the hearts of purists. The manual transmission is back in the GT3, and it signals a big shift at the company.

"We are taking a lot of care about the driving emotion," said Preuninger, in an interview with Road & Track.
"Not so much stubbornly, seriously, German-ly chasing lap time, lap time, lap time," he said with a mock stern voice. "At least, that's not my intention anymore."

This is a philosophy that was born from the critically acclaimed–and commercially successful–manual-equipped Cayman GT4 and the 911 R. These two helped Preuninger realize that there are customers for old-school purist cars.

Oh trust me, I've read plenty about the .2 GT3, I even started a thread here.

Don't get me wrong, I WANT transmission choices. I have no problems with picking DCT or MT, that's their own business, I just don't see them being around for much longer.

Ironically, Preuninger was the one that said automatic transmissions are for "grannies", yet he made them only available on the .1. The 911R, .2 GT3 and GT4 are all anomalies. You add all of them together and what do will they come to, 8k units (complete guess btw)? Are they going to keep dumping that much resources into testing, adapting, crash testing MT? We shall see.

Not to mention the profit margins on those cars are absolutely massive, although the GT4 was probably underpriced. Yet go to the M4CS threads and see how many people are complaining about the price of that car

I really do predict in 5-8 years, there won't be any MT's released. I think the last of the MT's will come from American muscle cars, and not the Germans.

[omasou]

as DCT reliability continues to increase + prices continue to decrease from increase utilization by percolating down into rest of the lineup + racing continuing to refine and improve DCT + younger drivers not knowing how to drive a manual...manuals won't last much longer and as others have posted...that time will be when manual demand drops low enough

saying the car will be collectible is a bit of a stretch...hard to find used, yes

just as the manual transmission requiring double clutching gave way to today's manual transmission that requires a foot so to will it give way to the DCT that doesn't require a foot to shift...

EDIT:

2018 MINI REFRESH...

Thanks to sources familiar with the brand’s upcoming plans, we can confirm that MINI intends to offer dual clutch automatic transmissions as part of this refresh. While we don’t yet know details of what models they’ll be found in, it’s a safe bet we’ll see the DCT option in the Cooper S and JCW models (if not more).

Moving from a torque converter automatic to a DCT is an interesting change of direction for BMW – a company that has thus far eschewed the use of dual clutch transmissions outside of M models and a few rare series models. The reason is that costs for dual clutch transmissions are typically higher given the complexity in design and manufacturing. The only way VW has been able to do it in mass is the sheer volume they can leverage. What appears to have happened is that BMW and MINI found a willing partner ready to bring costs down in order to battle the increasingly popular 8 and 9 speed automatics from ZF and Aisin.

[gmzanatta]

Originally Posted by omasou

saying the car will be collectible is a bit of a stretch...hard to find used, yes...

I agree - the M2 probably won't be a collectible, but it will definitely hold its value well, much better than majority of cars. If trends with older BMWs are any indication, the 6MT models will eventually be much harder to find and will command a premium - mostly because it will become an enthusiast's car.

[Karmic Man]

6MT will stay just like digital Seikos or self winding watches did not get rid of manual winding mechanical watches even though they are inherently less accurate and more time consuming to maintain.

Why? A manual winding watch is more emotional to its owner and the owner wears it proudly. For example it gives me great satisfactions to wind up the movement through the crown and feel all the gear trains moving.

Same thing with a 6MT sports car. There is a niche market for it and when there is demand and you become the sole supplier you become the monopoly.

Porsche is the forerunner with this strategy as they obviously believes that 6MT GT cars is a niche for them and also not have to worry too much about lap times which subsequently took some pressure off from having to make their new GT cars markedly faster than the last one and over their competitors.

Time will come when other competitors see that Porsche is getting a free ride with easy money as a monopoly in the 6MT market and then they will release their own special 6MT versions and the game starts all over again.

[Robin_NL]

Yeah but Porsche is a small luxury brand company with a different mindset towards its clients. BMW is a big luxury company with not so much sportiness more in it unfortunately....


Cheers
Robin

[///M2NYC15]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

6MT will stay just like digital Seikos or self winding watches did not get rid of manual winding mechanical watches even though they are inherently less accurate and more time consuming to maintain.

Why? A manual winding watch is more emotional to its owner and the owner wears it proudly. For example it gives me great satisfactions to wind up the movement through the crown and feel all the gear trains moving.

Same thing with a 6MT sports car. There is a niche market for it and when there is demand and you become the sole supplier you become the monopoly.

Porsche is the forerunner with this strategy as they obviously believes that 6MT GT cars is a niche for them and also not have to worry too much about lap times which subsequently took some pressure off from having to make their new GT cars markedly faster than the last one and over their competitors.

Time will come when other competitors see that Porsche is getting a free ride with easy money as a monopoly in the 6MT market and then they will release their own special 6MT versions and the game starts all over again.

I agree with you completely. I work for PANERAI and I own two models. I own a PAM88 (Automatic) and a PAM510 (Manual) I love the brand. I wear the watches based on my mood that day. If I feel lazy, I will wear the auto. But when I feel I want to be in tune with my timepiece, I wear the manual. The same goes for a car. When it comes to sports cars, Manual to me is the way to go. Rowing through your own gears is what makes the whole experience worth while.

MT will still exist but in a niche group. People who truly want the entire experience, will always opt for MT. Personally, I don't care for Lap times.

By the way, my Euro Delivery is scheduled for June 6th! I can't wait!!!!

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Yeah but Porsche is a small luxury brand company with a different mindset towards its clients. BMW is a big luxury company with not so much sportiness more in it unfortunately....


Cheers
Robin

Well I kind of always thought that Aston Martin is not too sportiness and more about big GT cars but I was wrong

http://www.thedrive.com/news/7749/as...boxes-ceo-says

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2017/2/2...ineup-7737884/


6L V12 and manual...

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by ///M2NYC15

I agree with you completely. I work for PANERAI and I own two models. I own a PAM88 (Automatic) and a PAM510 (Manual) I love the brand. I wear the watches based on my mood that day. If I feel lazy, I will wear the auto. But when I feel I want to be in tune with my timepiece, I wear the manual. The same goes for a car. When it comes to sports cars, Manual to me is the way to go. Rowing through your own gears is what makes the whole experience worth while.

MT will still exist but in a niche group. People who truly want the entire experience, will always opt for MT. Personally, I don't care for Lap times.

By the way, my Euro Delivery is scheduled for June 6th! I can't wait!!!!

You have one of the best job in the world when you work for Panerai! I am their fan and have a few SE