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      05-13-2018, 05:18 AM   #1
tranck
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Brake judder and carbon buildup

1st and foremost, my car at 3500 miles has neither.

The reason that I ask this is that my last Mcar which was an e39 M5 had to have the heads replaced at around 80K and after 100K - had almost constant brake judder which could never be resolved.

I also read about current M3's or M4's that are having this brake judder issue.

Any insight on the M2's would be greatly appreciated.
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      05-13-2018, 09:52 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranck View Post
1st and foremost, my car at 3500 miles has neither.

The reason that I ask this is that my last Mcar which was an e39 M5 had to have the heads replaced at around 80K and after 100K - had almost constant brake judder which could never be resolved.

I also read about current M3's or M4's that are having this brake judder issue.

Any insight on the M2's would be greatly appreciated.
Judder is usually caused by a transfer of brake pad material to the rotors in an uneven fashion.. What causes this? Sometimes it will just happen under normal street driving conditions, but often, 'overdriving' the pads, or heating them up more than what they were designed for will facilitate the transfer.

It sometimes will alleviate the situation if you rebed the brakes, which will tend to remove and even out some of the buildup.
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      05-13-2018, 07:25 PM   #3
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Haven't had this issue even going between track and oem pads. If you do get it just buy a rotor hone and put it on a drill and scrub the rotor surface clean and re-bed your pad material of choice. I had this problem on my GT-R, felt like a warped rotor and that solved it.
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      05-13-2018, 11:13 PM   #4
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I have 30,000 miles on my car and have even switched between OEM and track pads recently and not had any issues at all. I have not heard of this issue with the M3/4 either, if it exists I doubt it is common. A warped rotor or uneven brake material build are the only ways for this to happen and both are not likely under regular conditions. I do have a buddy who tracked his M2 with OEM pads and had material imprint itself on his rotor, he ended up needing to replace the rotors. As long as you use appropriate pads on the track I think you'll be fine.
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      05-14-2018, 06:09 AM   #5
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Hey Tom, good to see you on the forums again. I've still got the M5 after 15 years and actually have 66k miles on it now. It going to be sold soon though...going to be sad to see it go.

I recall your M5 issues that were a problem for you to get solved. I've never had brake judder issues on mine whether it was with my Stoptech BBK or the OEM brakes. Since we last talked about that ages ago, I've gone back to OEM brakes and put new pads/rotors all around, and like always, it brakes perfectly smoothly.

Re carbon buildup. The N55 is a direct injection engine and over very long mileage intervals is susceptible to carbon build up on the backs of the intake valves since they don't get exposed to fuel blasts like typical injected engines of the past. It's not nearly as bad as the N54, and N55 owners report looking at the valves on a 70k mile engine and seeing low levels of buildup. From what I can tell, it appears something in the 70-100k mile range would be appropriate to have the walnut shell blast service done on the intake valves. It runs about $500.

The "carbon buildup" issue on the S62 is a completely different animal. On that engine it has zero effect on performance. The S62 has passages in the head from the front to each exhaust port through which it blows air during the cold start process to help light off the cats quickly and meet cold start emissions tests, i.e. the secondary air injection ports. It is these ports in the head that can become clogged with carbon buildup and then cause a check engine light. The CEL will then prevent the car from passing the state inspection.

Since it only effects cold start emissions, and even then only slightly and for a very short time (i.e. you can heard the S62 SAI pump run during cold starts, and I usually hear it for ~15 seconds), most everyone who has the problem uses an inexpensive tune to disable the SAI checking/code. My engine has yet to exhibit any SAI issue here at 17 years of age.

I hope you're enjoying the M2! We're 3rd on the list for an M2C allocation for my wife's next car, so we'll be joining you enjoying one of these soon.

Regards,
Chuck
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      05-14-2018, 02:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Hey Tom, good to see you on the forums again. I've still got the M5 after 15 years and actually have 66k miles on it now. It going to be sold soon though...going to be sad to see it go.

I recall your M5 issues that were a problem for you to get solved. I've never had brake judder issues on mine whether it was with my Stoptech BBK or the OEM brakes. Since we last talked about that ages ago, I've gone back to OEM brakes and put new pads/rotors all around, and like always, it brakes perfectly smoothly.

Re carbon buildup. The N55 is a direct injection engine and over very long mileage intervals is susceptible to carbon build up on the backs of the intake valves since they don't get exposed to fuel blasts like typical injected engines of the past. It's not nearly as bad as the N54, and N55 owners report looking at the valves on a 70k mile engine and seeing low levels of buildup. From what I can tell, it appears something in the 70-100k mile range would be appropriate to have the walnut shell blast service done on the intake valves. It runs about $500.

The "carbon buildup" issue on the S62 is a completely different animal. On that engine it has zero effect on performance. The S62 has passages in the head from the front to each exhaust port through which it blows air during the cold start process to help light off the cats quickly and meet cold start emissions tests, i.e. the secondary air injection ports. It is these ports in the head that can become clogged with carbon buildup and then cause a check engine light. The CEL will then prevent the car from passing the state inspection.

Since it only effects cold start emissions, and even then only slightly and for a very short time (i.e. you can heard the S62 SAI pump run during cold starts, and I usually hear it for ~15 seconds), most everyone who has the problem uses an inexpensive tune to disable the SAI checking/code. My engine has yet to exhibit any SAI issue here at 17 years of age.

I hope you're enjoying the M2! We're 3rd on the list for an M2C allocation for my wife's next car, so we'll be joining you enjoying one of these soon.

Regards,
Chuck
Hey Chuck!!
LMB e39 M5 right? You certainly were a huge help to me in every way - so great to hear from you!

Hope you and your fam are doing great! - maybe a cars and coffee meet w/ our M2's someday.

Take care!

Tom
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      05-14-2018, 08:55 PM   #7
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