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      05-09-2018, 04:28 PM   #1
K9GunSlinger
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KW Rep Says KW V3 and BMW M Perf Coil are different?

Hey all,

It was my understanding from reading through posts that the KW V3 coilers and the BMW M perf coils were essentially the same thing (Rebranded KW) and the only different being that the KW V3 allowed you to go lower than the BMW M perf.

heres an email i got with a rep at KW

"The BMW M coils have components manufactured by KW, but it is not valved internally, or adjustable in the same fashion.

OEMs will ALWAYS request a more conservative set up to appeal to a wider audience of drivers (including M2 drivers).

The magnetic ride control does offer some flexibility with respect to feel, but not close to the same range, should you choose to dial in the kit more to your personal liking, especially for spirited highway driving or track use.


A V3 direct from KW represents the ultimate in adjustability."

-------------

can anyone provide input on this?
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      05-09-2018, 05:21 PM   #2
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M Performance coils are more like the KW HAS kit which is far cheaper than V3
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      05-09-2018, 10:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxymoron View Post
M Performance coils are more like the KW HAS kit which is far cheaper than V3
This is not true. I don't have the V3 so I can't speak to that but I do have the MPS. HAS stands for height adjustable springs. The MPS is a coilover setup.

Read the fine print and decide for yourself since some information is proprietary and will not be disclosed. The attachment is for the MPS.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by OGM2; 05-09-2018 at 11:03 PM..
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      05-10-2018, 12:48 AM   #4
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Thanks for clarification. Didn't realise there was more to them than just height adjustment
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      05-10-2018, 09:26 AM   #5
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I believe this was covered in the past.
They are eventually same hardware but setup is different.

As the rep told you, they tend to go more conservative to MP coilover than their V3. All manufacturer has to worry about their warranty when it comes to their OE parts installed by their mechanics so they would definitely want to avoid aggressive setting that can bring more problem back to them later on.

Their adjustable variances are different. V3 gives you more wider range.
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      05-10-2018, 09:34 AM   #6
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The question really is "how useable" is that wider range and does it provide performance benefits or is it merely for aesthetics.
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      05-10-2018, 09:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omasou View Post
The question really is "how useable" is that wider range and does it provide performance benefits or is it merely for aesthetics.
I don't think that's a question, because why does it matter if they're both relatively the same price? Go with KW since it has more adjustability, unless you're concerned about BMW warranty. Which I don't think you should be concerned, because KW has it's own warranty. And find a good third party mechanic to install the KW and I'm sure they'll even give you free suspension adjustments until you figure out the best setting, or explain what all the adjustments do and how they affect the car so you can adjust it yourself.
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      05-10-2018, 11:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by omasou View Post
The question really is "how useable" is that wider range and does it provide performance benefits or is it merely for aesthetics.
I don't think that's a question, because why does it matter if they're both relatively the same price? Go with KW since it has more adjustability, unless you're concerned about BMW warranty. Which I don't think you should be concerned, because KW has it's own warranty. And find a good third party mechanic to install the KW and I'm sure they'll even give you free suspension adjustments until you figure out the best setting, or explain what all the adjustments do and how they affect the car so you can adjust it yourself.
The valuing is different and I'll bet BMW did more actual testing rather than an educated guess based on experience, specifications, car weight and engineering design. Though probably good as a starting point. Additionally, if you read the response it says BMW used "components" not that they started with a V3 and custom valved it. That response was very carefully worded.

And this not a knock against KW I'm sure they make a great product but obviously cannot dedicate the resource (time, money and people) to each and every car variant like a manufacturer will. As was shown by they kit changes. First it was...here use the M3/M4 kit the suspensions are similar...then in what a little less than a year later they introduced a slightly tweaked M2 variant, which was *guessing* based on customer feedback. I'm not part of KW's development team nor do I want to be.

Why do I need to figure out the best adjustment BMW already did that and tested it.

Last edited by omasou; 05-10-2018 at 04:09 PM..
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      05-10-2018, 01:30 PM   #9
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Just from personal experience running the MPS - it goes as low as I want it and has adjustable compression/rebound. Works great on the street and track (although I just leave it in my track setting, I got used to the bumpiness).
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      05-10-2018, 02:41 PM   #10
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The valving on the dampers may differ, but physically, the difference is down to the springs and spring seats. KW grinds the seating faces flat (and uses shorter main springs with helpers on the rear), but BMW does not.
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      05-10-2018, 02:42 PM   #11
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Oh, and the surface finish.
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      05-10-2018, 03:12 PM   #12
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Well ive been getting PMs from vendors and stuff saying that the BMW M perf coils are actually rebrand KW V2s, not V3s, is the difference between those two just HEIGHT adjustability? i dont care about going low, i actually want to stay around stock height maybe drop it 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch. my main focus is on the quality/durability and the performance aspect if someone can help me with that. I have already read the other threads concerning the KW vs M perf but it got diluted with comparisons with the Clubsports.
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      05-10-2018, 03:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omasou View Post
Why do I need to figure out the best adjustment BMW already did that and tested it.
My case is running different sized tires and wanting to go low without rubbing. Gonna need some testing and fine tuning for that. But there are many other reasons. One standard "best adjustment" isn't always the best.
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      05-10-2018, 04:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9GunSlinger View Post
Well ive been getting PMs from vendors and stuff saying that the BMW M perf coils are actually rebrand KW V2s, not V3s, is the difference between those two just HEIGHT adjustability? i dont care about going low, i actually want to stay around stock height maybe drop it 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch. my main focus is on the quality/durability and the performance aspect if someone can help me with that. I have already read the other threads concerning the KW vs M perf but it got diluted with comparisons with the Clubsports.
See my other post, and realise that salesmen are telling you what they think you want to hear... HTH.
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      05-10-2018, 08:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9GunSlinger View Post
Well ive been getting PMs from vendors and stuff saying that the BMW M perf coils are actually rebrand KW V2s, not V3s, is the difference between those two just HEIGHT adjustability? i dont care about going low, i actually want to stay around stock height maybe drop it 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch. my main focus is on the quality/durability and the performance aspect if someone can help me with that. I have already read the other threads concerning the KW vs M perf but it got diluted with comparisons with the Clubsports.
On the V2 you can adjust height/rebound. On the V3 and MPS you can adjust height/rebound/compression. As far as BMW using more "conservative" specs, as a previous poster mentioned it only matters if you plan on setting it to the extremes such as max low for "stance". The V3 may or may not be able to go stiffer/softer but I personally haven't seen any info to verify this. Even if it did, why upgrade the suspension to go softer and stiffer doesn't always equate to better handling. And the end of the day it's a personal decision.
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      05-12-2018, 11:10 PM   #16
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Like any product selection the first question you should ask yourself if what your goals are. If you just want to lower your car and aren't going to the track it probably doesn't matter much which of these versions you choose. If your going to the track then you want the most adjustability. Not sure I would buy what the sales person is telling you about valving etc. At the end of the day KW makes more money selling you their product than using BMW as a middleman. My guess is 95% or more won't know the difference between the products if blind tested. You will likely be happy either way.
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      05-17-2018, 10:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9GunSlinger View Post
Hey all,

It was my understanding from reading through posts that the KW V3 coilers and the BMW M perf coils were essentially the same thing (Rebranded KW) and the only different being that the KW V3 allowed you to go lower than the BMW M perf.

heres an email i got with a rep at KW

"The BMW M coils have components manufactured by KW, but it is not valved internally, or adjustable in the same fashion.

OEMs will ALWAYS request a more conservative set up to appeal to a wider audience of drivers (including M2 drivers).

The magnetic ride control does offer some flexibility with respect to feel, but not close to the same range, should you choose to dial in the kit more to your personal liking, especially for spirited highway driving or track use.


A V3 direct from KW represents the ultimate in adjustability."

-------------

can anyone provide input on this?
Considering your question, I'd take the response from KW as accurate. The KV V3 are a true coil over w/height adjustment (as are the M Perf). However, independent compression/rebound adjustment is a next-level suspension tuning feature. The M Performance variant has the same features, but I don't believe they are independently adjustable (due to valving). I have Ohlins R&T, and the rebound/compression are one adjustment only (like the MPS). Guys - keep me honest if the MPS has separate dials for comp/rebound

If you're not going to the racetrack, you can fine tune for your perfect street ride/handling. If you are tracking your car - you can tune for your ideal street set-up and then tune for the racetrack after experimenting. Even track-to-track if you have the time/energy.

BMW has engineered compromise into the units to provide warranty and a more general appeal, but only the drawings/specs (which we will never get) will tell the story.

Not sure you can go wrong with either MPS or V3, but I went with Ohlins due to their reputation, quality, and excellent tech support to ensure I got the units best for my needs (i went with R&T)
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      05-18-2018, 01:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
Considering your question, I'd take the response from KW as accurate. The KV V3 are a true coil over w/height adjustment (as are the M Perf). However, independent compression/rebound adjustment is a next-level suspension tuning feature. The M Performance variant has the same features, but I don't believe they are independently adjustable (due to valving). I have Ohlins R&T, and the rebound/compression are one adjustment only (like the MPS). Guys - keep me honest if the MPS has separate dials for comp/rebound

If you're not going to the racetrack, you can fine tune for your perfect street ride/handling. If you are tracking your car - you can tune for your ideal street set-up and then tune for the racetrack after experimenting. Even track-to-track if you have the time/energy.

BMW has engineered compromise into the units to provide warranty and a more general appeal, but only the drawings/specs (which we will never get) will tell the story.

Not sure you can go wrong with either MPS or V3, but I went with Ohlins due to their reputation, quality, and excellent tech support to ensure I got the units best for my needs (i went with R&T)
Yes, the MPS has separate dials for compression and rebound.
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      05-18-2018, 08:31 AM   #19
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Also, do the MPS or the KW use a combined height adjuster w/spring preload or a separate system? I liked the Ohlins R&T because you can adjust them independently (although preload will affect height, also)
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      05-18-2018, 12:24 PM   #20
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Strictly speaking, the preload will just change the part of the damper stroke the suspension travel uses - it has no other effect.

The main benefit of the separately adjustable ride height therefore is the ability to keep the damper in the desired part of its stroke regardless of the spring rate you're using while maintaining a target ride height.

To put it another way, if you're not switching springs on a regular basis, the separate height adjustment on the Ohlins means that it's possible to go lower without running out of damper travel, but if you are trying that you're probably running out of suspension travel and ground clearance.

HTH
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