[MmmmmM2]

I am going to think you are crazy.

My car is in the shop for some minor warranty work and I am in a 2021 330i. The steering in this car is terrible. It has absolutely no feel to it. I thought the G series cars had better steering or maybe I am just spoiled by my car.

Also, I'm now thoroughly convinced I can't go back to a regular BMW after driving an M series car. The difference is just insane with how much better an M car is built.

[Enabled]

The difference is mostly software (and a little of suspension setup+tires), but yes, I have noticed the 330i felt so numb.

[W///]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

I am going to think you are crazy.

My car is in the shop for some minor warranty work and I am in a 2021 330i. The steering in this car is terrible. It has absolutely no feel to it. I thought the G series cars had better steering or maybe I am just spoiled by my car.

Also, I'm now thoroughly convinced I can't go back to a regular BMW after driving an M series car. The difference is just insane with how much better an M car is built.

You have to compare M for M, because the G80 is really nice in this department. Not to mention I wasn't a fan of the F30 steering either.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

Also, I'm now thoroughly convinced I can't go back to a regular BMW after driving an M series car. The difference is just insane with how much better an M car is built.

This. The M2 is my first M car and I cant help but look down upon all my numb cars .

[.Slug]

I think this is a matter of what car class you've come from before driving the M2. I came from econoboxes/hondas/mazdas etc and for me nothing beats the M2C steering, but its all perspective and experience. Have I driven a Porsche, Jaguar or Ferrari? Nope. So for the most part (with one exception), I only have non-luxury/non-performance things to compare it to and so, for me, its amazing. I've driven plenty of Mercedes though as I worked for Mercedes for a while and hands down, the M car beats them hand over fist.

[CannibalOx]

I owned a 2006 Cayman S and the helm of the M2C leaves a lot to be desired. I know that comparing a hydraulic system to an electronic system isn't entirely fair but there is a large gap. I will say that the F87 chassis is communicative. There is a highway near me that for about a 1/2 of a mile, in the right car, you can feel the imperfections in the road from the construction equipment. With the Cayman you could feel it in both the steering and chassis, the M2C its just in the chassis.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by W///

You have to compare M for M, because the G80 is really nice in this department. Not to mention I wasn't a fan of the F30 steering either.

My 340i's steering was absolutely atrocious!

[MmmmmM2]

Not to mention, the 330i is an absolute boat. It's way too big. I can't believe the 3 series is so huge now.

[spooni]

Coming from an E92 M3 with servotronics.. The M2C is "meh", by no means a deal breaker, but I know they could of done better. Especially when Porsche absolutely nailed the 991-era steering(electronic too).

[VisualEcho]

It's all in what you compare it to. Every car I drive has crap steering feel to me, as I own a Lotus Exige. The M2 isn't that bad, but I did expect more from an M-Car. I've read that I can do an update to the CS steering, but haven't bothered, as it's my daily, and it's not that important to me.

[Enabled]

CS and Competition have the same settings (flash and coding) in the steering rack. This is from the last time I checked.

I may try coding the rack to F82GTS to see if it's any different on the M2, but this was designed for a longer wheelbase car, technically.

[Moflow]

Yup as others have said, there's a huge range and the M2C is somewhere pretty close to the middle IMHO.

It's also not as important as I would've thought. When I was a bit younger, I thought steering feel was incredibly important in order to enjoy driving fast, but since then i've had many many hours of track time in a car with great handling and absolutely zero steering feel (think 70's Americana style.) Of course, i'd love it if the thing had more steering feel, but i've been really surprised just how much I didn't need good feel to drive at 10/10ths on the race track.

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

I am going to think you are crazy.

My car is in the shop for some minor warranty work and I am in a 2021 330i. The steering in this car is terrible. It has absolutely no feel to it. I thought the G series cars had better steering or maybe I am just spoiled by my car.

Also, I'm now thoroughly convinced I can't go back to a regular BMW after driving an M series car. The difference is just insane with how much better an M car is built.

I am not a fan of the current BMW tuning in standard cars. I've got loaners and they feel numb.

My E90 3 series which I owned for 5.5 years felt more special then any G series product (maybe excluding the M3/4). It was more tactile and fun at any speeds.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

I am not a fan of the current BMW tuning in standard cars. I've got loaners and they feel numb.

My E90 3 series which I owned for 5.5 years felt more special then any G series product (maybe excluding the M3/4). It was more tactile and fun at any speeds.

Super numb. I mean, I guess I shouldn't really being expecting much from a 330i loaner huh?

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

Super numb. I mean, I guess I shouldn't really being expecting much from a 330i loaner huh?

I think you should expect more, given that it's a BMW. In the past these standard cars used to be super fun, I've been lucky to get 335is and other E series loaners back in 2010-2011 time frame and all of them were a blast to drive. But now all the same have been replaced with numb-and-dumb mules giving a completely different experience. I much prefer a Honda or a Kia to a standard 3 series at this point.

You are right that we have to step up and pay a huge premium these days to extract the most fun from BMW cars and even then there are some compromises.

[richard in NC]

I am fine with the amount of feel in the M2C steering, certainly acknowledging its far from BMWs best efforts. I've owned and driven many BMWs but my reference point over 20 years is mostly 5 series and X models with a few 2,3,Z, & Ms thrown in. Although having driven the e92 M3 on track, it had a telepathic connection with the driver, as did an e39 528i (not the 540i recirc ball unit).

With the M2C, the steering feel is there but like a low volume whisper and masked by artificial heft. Whereas the feel in many modern cars is a big fat zero. Try driving a Chrysler minivan. And I think BMW missed the boat on the more pedestrian models, hopefully learning their lesson and improving with the latest gen.

[Al Bundy's Dodge]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

I am not a fan of the current BMW tuning in standard cars. I've got loaners and they feel numb.

My E90 3 series which I owned for 5.5 years felt more special then any G series product (maybe excluding the M3/4). It was more tactile and fun at any speeds.

Oh man, I never stop thinking about my little E90 328. GREAT steering and incredibly fun to drive at all times. I miss her terribly.

She was about 10 years old when I dumped her for an F30 335. Worst mistake I ever made and Ive regretted it ever since.

It drives me nuts that you have to have an M car these days to experience what used to be standard driving dynamics in all BMWs.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

The M2C rack is fine until you take it out to the track, or an Auto X.

Then you realize that BMW let us all down.....

Its probably the worst complaint I have regarding the F87 platform.

Instead of feeling the rack tell me what's going on with the front end, its trying too hard to mimic that buildup of resistance.

On my current setup with 265/295 Yoko A052's it sucks.

A052's are not the best for feedback near their limits, then add the BMW M2 rack and its a poor combo.

My $.02

[p27rpy]

Originally Posted by CannibalOx

I owned a 2006 Cayman S and the helm of the M2C leaves a lot to be desired. I know that comparing a hydraulic system to an electronic system isn't entirely fair but there is a large gap. I will say that the F87 chassis is communicative. There is a highway near me that for about a 1/2 of a mile, in the right car, you can feel the imperfections in the road from the construction equipment. With the Cayman you could feel it in both the steering and chassis, the M2C its just in the chassis.

Coming from a 2008 Cayman S and I couldn't agree more.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES

The M2C rack is fine until you take it out to the track, or an Auto X.

Then you realize that BMW let us all down.....

Its probably the worst complaint I have regarding the F87 platform.

Instead of feeling the rack tell me what's going on with the front end, its trying too hard to mimic that buildup of resistance.

On my current setup with 265/295 Yoko A052's it sucks.

A052's are not the best for feedback near their limits, then add the BMW M2 rack and its a poor combo.

My $.02

That's the thing with the stock M2 suspension, it's ok being playful with stock tires but slapping on really sticky tires pushes the suspension out of it's comfort zone. Then coilovers are in order.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Yup as others have said, there's a huge range and the M2C is somewhere pretty close to the middle IMHO.

It's also not as important as I would've thought. When I was a bit younger, I thought steering feel was incredibly important in order to enjoy driving fast, but since then i've had many many hours of track time in a car with great handling and absolutely zero steering feel (think 70's Americana style.) Of course, i'd love it if the thing had more steering feel, but i've been really surprised just how much I didn't need good feel to drive at 10/10ths on the race track.

I agree with this. I own some of the arguably some of the best steering feel BMW has ever made (no E30 M3, but E36 and E92 M3 would be up there I'd think), and I don't really have a problem with the M2C. It's not the car's best attribute, but I wouldn't even call it a bad attribute.

It certainly doesn't even remotely come close to being an issue to the point I don't love the car to bits.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

That's the thing with the stock M2 suspension, it's ok being playful with stock tires but slapping on really sticky tires pushes the suspension out of it's comfort zone. Then coilovers are in order.

I have 400/700 TC Klines and if anything it more obvious with the C/O's on the car

All sports cars including P-Cars have their own little personality faults...on our M2's its:

Steering Rack feedback
Small Gas tank
Poor rotor & caliper/rim setup (can't fit 18" rims over the calipers, or some 19's)
OEM seats w/o openings for 5/6 point belts! (inexcusable for an M car)
SCH Issues
Curb Weight (150-200 lbs higher than it should be)
Exhaust Sound
Poor HK Sound System