[Artemis]

Though some may know me in the meantime as quite a dedicated BMW enthusiast, I'm no blind fanboy swallowing with approval whatever is being served by BMW. I remain open-minded, which means also the intrinsic power to criticize and dislike, though try to do so in a balanced and considerate way.

From hindsight, IMHO BMW should not have released the M235i. It's a bold statement, I know, but it's no good to create the perception amongst many BMW enthusiasts of having conceived some "M235is"-ish vehicle, design wise. It doesn't do the ///M brand in general, and the M2 specifically, justice.

True that ///M is all about the chassis. And I'm convinced that the M2 won't fall short with regard thereto. It will be a great driving machine.

But that does not allow to 'go softer' on some design elements. If you name it ///M, then it should be ///M. It creates expectations you got to live up to. The discussion about side mirrors, CF roof, powerdome, etc. may seem silly for most, but it's definitely some sort of stepping on ///M petrol heads' toes: design details that won't break your toes, for sure, but hurt these nevertheless.

But on the other hand, BMW for sure may point out budget and real life production constraints + the strategy of keeping the M2 more or less out of the M3/M4 zone (the very core of the ///M business). Furthermore, there may equally be the rationale not to give away all the goods with the first year of the first generation of the BMW M2 base model. Things may get more 'spicy' with LCI, next generations and certainly with variants (think GTS and CSL). Remember the limited package you got for the first year, first generation Porsche Boxster back in the nineties.

Still, I would not have minded BMW offering all so-called "///M Design Icons" as options (see here). Good choice to offer M Performance Parts for the M2, but, let's face it, these may be perceived as petrol head pacifiers, keeping the M2 base price reasonably low.

Though I'm aware that the Leipzig production facility ain't no candy shop where you can order all things ///M à la carte. True that production of a vehicle is cruelly complex and budgets have to be managed. But, seriously, if that's the main reason, then produce the M2 at another BMW facility. Cut it some slack in the ///M portfolio.

"The legendary «M» is the «most powerful letter in the world»". Fair enough, but then either produce something worth that letter or don't ...or badge it M235is.

In cauda venenum: last month I ordered an M2 and won't skip my order. In the end, it's all about the chassis, you know ?

[Denk]

I agree, some of the reasons why I bailed on getting an M2...for now. I'm also still in love with the e92. I'll see how I feel in a few years after LCI with the M2, who knows.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Though some may know me in the meantime as quite a dedicated BMW enthusiast, I'm no blind fanboy swallowing with approval whatever is being served by BMW. I remain open-minded, which means also the intrinsic power to criticize and dislike, though try to do so in a balanced and considerate way.

From hindsight, IMHO BMW should not have released the M235i. It's a bold statement, I know, but it's no good to create the perception amongst many BMW enthusiasts of having conceived some "M235is"-ish vehicle, design wise. It doesn't do the ///M brand in general, and the M2 specifically, justice.

True that ///M is all about the chassis. And I'm convinced that the M2 won't fall short with regard thereto. It will be a great driving machine.

But that does not allow to 'go softer' on some design elements. If you name it ///M, then it should be ///M. It creates expectations you got to live up to. The discussion about side mirrors, CF roof, powerdome, etc. may seem silly for most, but it's definitely some sort of stepping on ///M petrol heads' toes: design details that won't break your toes, for sure, but hurt these nevertheless.

But on the other hand, BMW for sure may point out budget and real life production constraints + the strategy of keeping the M2 more or less out of the M3/M4 zone (the very core of the ///M business). Furthermore, there may equally be the rationale not to give away all the goods with the first year of the first generation of the BMW M2 base model. Things may get more 'spicy' with LCI, next generations and certainly with variants (think GTS and CSL). Remember the limited package you got for the first year, first generation Porsche Boxster back in the nineties.

Still, I would not have minded BMW offering all so-called "///M Design Icons" as options (see here). Good choice to offer M Performance Parts for the M2, but, let's face it, these may be perceived as petrol head pacifiers, keeping the M2 base price reasonably low.

Though I'm aware that the Leipzig production facility ain't no candy shop where you can order all things ///M à la carte. True that production of a vehicle is cruelly complex and budgets have to be managed. But, seriously, if that's the main reason, then produce the M2 at another BMW facility. Cut it some slack in the ///M portfolio.

"The legendary «M» is the «most powerful letter in the world»". Fair enough, but then either produce something worth that letter or don't ...or badge it M235is.

In cauda venenum: last month I ordered an M2 and won't skip my order. In the end, it's all about the chassis, you know ?

Quite a bold statement there, Luc. How would you feel if the M235i didn't have an M on its trunk and was not part of the M Performance line but kept all the upgrades? I like the idea of the slightly uprated M Sport package vehicles, but not so keen on the name itself. is would be better IMHO.

As for the M2, erm... Sure, who would not like the powerdome or mirrors, and the first Pyrat was as much different as the M2 is from standard models AND it had new mirrors. In the end, though, I don't mind it all. As you said, it's all about other things. Glad they've tweaked the N55 quite a lot. Almost worthy of a new name.

However, I want to know the reasoning behind the non-existent interior options and color palette. One upholstery, one interior trim and just four colors. No red, no classic blue, no MW. And stupid black leather only. Don't tell me this is all because Leipzig is too busy producing 3-cyl FWD minivans and diesel hatchbacks. Pretty sure they did this on purpose to keep the aura of a limited-production car, but they failed at doing so 'cause it ain't as limited as the 1 M. At least BMW didn't officially said so...

P.S.: Could you pretty please give me a ride on the next 1Addicts trip?

[Gibson6594]

Still need the US msrp before I can really reach an opinion on much of this.

[JustChris]

Agreed with all of this. Like all of us II'm very very pro BMW and thought I would love this cars release. The drawn out hype set expectations very very high that for me were not met.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by iroger

Mirrors are not that big deal!! performance is, it's a way of getting it cheap, just add some m performance parts and it's done!!!

Don't want to dig the side mirror topic ad nauseam. Just want to remind to the point of fact that mirrors matter for ///M. BMW considers it themselves an "///M Design Icon" (their words, not mine) distinguishing ///M cars from the regular ones.

It's not about being anal or too demanding for the money forked out. It's about expectations. If you order a specific latte at Starbucks, you expect to get that specific Starbucks latte. If they can't provide it as such because a common ingredient is missing that day in the store (for reasons unrelated to technological progress), then they should not advertise and sell it as that specific latte. Or to rephrase an old saying: if you want it to be a duck, then it should not only walk and quack like duck, but also look like a duck.

And before anyone chimes in with a "get an M3/M4 if you want all ///M bells and whistles" argument. It's unrelated to the price-tag - personally I prefer a compact four-seater. In my book 4m50 / 177.17" is the limit to categorize a car as 'compact' (the quintessential E46 M3 / E46 M3 CSL just stays within that limit): gimme a duck, not a goose.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Don't want to dig the side mirror topic ad nauseam. Just want to remind to the point of fact that mirrors matter for ///M. BMW considers it themselves an "///M Design Icon" (their words, not mine) distinguishing ///M cars from the regular ones.

It's not about being anal or too demanding for the money forked out. It's about expectations. If you order a specific latte at Starbucks, you expect to get that specific Starbucks latte. If they can't provide it as such because a common ingredient is missing that day in the store (for reasons unrelated to technological progress), then they should not advertise and sell it as that specific latte. Or to rephrase an old saying: if you want it to be a duck, then it should not only walk and quack like duck, but also look like a duck.

And before anyone chimes in with a "get an M3/M4 if you want all ///M bells and whistles" argument. It's unrelated to the price-tag - personally I prefer a compact four-seater. In my book 4m50 / 177.17" is the limit to categorize a car as 'compact' (the quintessential E46 M3 / E46 M3 CSL just stays within that limit): gimme a duck, not a goose.

I agree 100%

Interior frustrates me. If it's an M car than I expect durable materials inside and a seat that can somewhat hold your bottom sensor. This is config is between a true M and M235. The fact they are mot offering weight saving options and more colors is going to turn off many folks. This car has huge potential bit right now it is locked in a closet.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Don't want to dig the side mirror topic ad nauseam. Just want to remind to the point of fact that mirrors matter for ///M. BMW considers it themselves an "///M Design Icon" (their words, not mine) distinguishing ///M cars from the regular ones.

It's not about being anal or too demanding for the money forked out. It's about expectations. If you order a specific latte at Starbucks, you expect to get that specific Starbucks latte. If they can't provide it as such because a common ingredient is missing that day in the store (for reasons unrelated to technological progress), then they should not advertise and sell it as that specific latte. Or to rephrase an old saying: if you want it to be a duck, then it should not only walk and quack like duck, but also look like a duck.

And before anyone chimes in with a "get an M3/M4 if you want all ///M bells and whistles" argument. It's unrelated to the price-tag - personally I prefer a compact four-seater. In my book 4m50 / 177.17" is the limit to categorize a car as 'compact' (the quintessential E46 M3 / E46 M3 CSL just stays within that limit): gimme a duck, not a goose.

Great reply and again agree entirely. Surprise this thread is so quiet, seems the M2 boards have quietened right back down again now.

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

Still need the US msrp before I can really reach an opinion on much of this.

I also think the price tag on the car will, ultimately, determine whether or not the complaints (or shortcomings) you list are going to have any meaningful effect. If the price is high, the complaints will stick, sales will drop . If the price is right, the complaints will fade away. I'd bet on the latter.

[Gibson6594]

I think BMW is going to appease many of the disgruntled with low MSRP and higher than expected production volume.

[spmd11]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Though some may know me in the meantime as quite a dedicated BMW enthusiast, I'm no blind fanboy swallowing with approval whatever is being served by BMW. I remain open-minded, which means also the intrinsic power to criticize and dislike, though try to do so in a balanced and considerate way.

From hindsight, IMHO BMW should not have released the M235i. It's a bold statement, I know, but it's no good to create the perception amongst many BMW enthusiasts of having conceived some "M235is"-ish vehicle, design wise. It doesn't do the ///M brand in general, and the M2 specifically, justice.

True that ///M is all about the chassis. And I'm convinced that the M2 won't fall short with regard thereto. It will be a great driving machine.

But that does not allow to 'go softer' on some design elements. If you name it ///M, then it should be ///M. It creates expectations you got to live up to. The discussion about side mirrors, CF roof, powerdome, etc. may seem silly for most, but it's definitely some sort of stepping on ///M petrol heads' toes: design details that won't break your toes, for sure, but hurt these nevertheless.

But on the other hand, BMW for sure may point out budget and real life production constraints + the strategy of keeping the M2 more or less out of the M3/M4 zone (the very core of the ///M business). Furthermore, there may equally be the rationale not to give away all the goods with the first year of the first generation of the BMW M2 base model. Things may get more 'spicy' with LCI, next generations and certainly with variants (think GTS and CSL). Remember the limited package you got for the first year, first generation Porsche Boxster back in the nineties.

Still, I would not have minded BMW offering all so-called "///M Design Icons" as options (see here). Good choice to offer M Performance Parts for the M2, but, let's face it, these may be perceived as petrol head pacifiers, keeping the M2 base price reasonably low.

Though I'm aware that the Leipzig production facility ain't no candy shop where you can order all things ///M à la carte. True that production of a vehicle is cruelly complex and budgets have to be managed. But, seriously, if that's the main reason, then produce the M2 at another BMW facility. Cut it some slack in the ///M portfolio.

"The legendary «M» is the «most powerful letter in the world»". Fair enough, but then either produce something worth that letter or don't ...or badge it M235is.

In cauda venenum: last month I ordered an M2 and won't skip my order. In the end, it's all about the chassis, you know ?

Good post. I'm an M owner, 20 year BMW enthusiast and very very upset with what BMW is doing with dilution of M and what they have done with M2 as a half M. I'm probably headed to Porsche because of the last 7 years of M dilution. And I think BMWNA could care less if I leave the mark. Sad but true for the old M guard.

[vugz10]

Originally Posted by spmd11

Good post. I'm an M owner, 20 year BMW enthusiast and very very upset with what BMW is doing with dilution of M and what they have done with M2 as a half M. I'm probably headed to Porsche because of the last 7 years of M dilution. And I think BMWNA could care less if I leave the mark. Sad but true for the old M guard.

I see where you're coming from but take a different stance on the matter. I've dreamt of owning an M for a long time and, depending on the price, the "diluted" M2 will be a great way to make my dream a reality. Again, it depends on what BMWNA decides to do with the MSRP...

[Bemo]

Artemis - congratulations on your M2 order.
I read your post thoroughly and glad you have identified the individual aspects of the car, that work for you, like the compact size of the chassis and more-than-likely lively motor.

I have great hopes for the M2's rightful placement in the M division. There is more to be had and desired, sure, but this is simply "version 1" and I'm sure that all subsequent generations will continue to improve in weight and performance.

At this time, I remain on the proverbial fence as I hope for surprises in 2016, due to BMW's upcoming anniversary.

[Cope]

Originally Posted by Chris The Manx

Great reply and again agree entirely. Surprise this thread is so quiet, seems the M2 boards have quietened right back down again now.

These threads just get so tiring. We haven't even got a journalist review to argue about yet.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by spmd11

Good post. I'm an M owner, 20 year BMW enthusiast and very very upset with what BMW is doing with dilution of M and what they have done with M2 as a half M. I'm probably headed to Porsche because of the last 7 years of M dilution. And I think BMWNA could care less if I leave the mark. Sad but true for the old M guard.

I'm an M owner....and i'm very upset with ignorant remarks about "half M" cars being thrown around. The reality is that plenty of us are sick of massive, bloated, fat M cars being made. Don't care about whether the engine is an "S" engine, "M" engine, "N" engine....or whatever alphabet. The reality is that an M car should be SMALL, fun, and enjoyable to drive. The 1M was the E9X M3 that BMW wasn't able to build......redefined and renovated into something fantastic.

The M2 is doing what the 1M started; making the M car small and fun again instead of making it big, fat, and bloated.

There is no 'half M' car...these small M cars are, to me, the essence of the M car. Am 'very very' glad the M2 exists.

[Nahlem]

I My self haven't ordered the M2 yet, My dealer haven't gotten me a good price yet for it. But regarding the M2 and its aspects. I know most of you guys are used to the fact that if you release an true "M" car it should have all the "M" goodies power dome, m-mirrors, m-seats and such stuff.

But the price for those stuff would shot the car thru the roof because of it. New engine would call for re design of the engine compartment. M-Mirrors would call for a redesign of the original mountings of the 2 series mirrors, Power dome that i don't know what would be needed for that other then bending the metal a bit differently. Seats of the M would nearly cost 20-35k€ to fit. (Not to over exaggerate the cost to much)

Add with all those stuff and you would have the base price of the M3/M4. You still have to remember even if you are driving the M2 in the future it is still a 2 series from start and the 2 series have been designed in a way and all those stuff might not fit the 2 series or the 2 series chassi. So would you like to pay the base price of an M3 for an M2? "M" is still a sub brand of the BMW company "M" doesn't make there own cars they just tweak them and change them a bit. But they do not re design a totally new platform to fit the car on or go in depth to rebuild the "Main Hull" of the car or aka the cabin part, Witch most stuff are connected to. Sure a new body kit is added a more redefined one then the aftermarket ones. But other then that its basically a 2 series on steroids.

I know i wouldn't want to pay that much for so much less. You always have to remember you are still driving a 2 series platform vehicle the M2 is not a brand new designed vehicle from the ground up. It has to stay within the limits of 2 series original car.

It is and always will be a 2 Series and that is what we have to play with. Simple as that.

Even when they release or if the release the M2 CSL Version i don't think we will see so much differences between it and the M2 Standard model maybe the CF Roof will come and power dome, But i still think it will have the Standard seats, Standard components of the M2 but maybe a tweaked engine again. But other then that it won't be so much different. It will probably be a bit more stripped and such stuff. But that's about it. It to will still be a 2 series from the start.

Sorry for the ran't but this has been so debated to the death regarding what should have been implanted and such.

When the M2 arrives for real and when people have driven it i think it will be a fantastic car just like any other "M" car out there it will be fun,agile,fast, sharp it will be crazy for sure and it will surely distinct it self both from the 2 series standard and the rest of the "M" cars and will earn its place among the "M's" of BMW :-) And it sure as hell will be a lot greater then the M235i i'm sure of it.

If it will be an so called "tuned version" of the M235i then i shall come back to this post and take back everything i have said about the M2. I'm no fanboy either of BMW or "M" for that matter but i think we are jumping to conclusion to fast before anyone of us have even driven it.

Remember when the M235i most of the reviews said "Who needs an M2" because it was so great. And yet the M2 is here imagine what they will say about it when they test drive it?

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Don't want to dig the side mirror topic ad nauseam. Just want to remind to the point of fact that mirrors matter for ///M. BMW considers it themselves an "///M Design Icon" (their words, not mine) distinguishing ///M cars from the regular ones.

It's not about being anal or too demanding for the money forked out. It's about expectations. If you order a specific latte at Starbucks, you expect to get that specific Starbucks latte. If they can't provide it as such because a common ingredient is missing that day in the store (for reasons unrelated to technological progress), then they should not advertise and sell it as that specific latte. Or to rephrase an old saying: if you want it to be a duck, then it should not only walk and quack like duck, but also look like a duck.

And before anyone chimes in with a "get an M3/M4 if you want all ///M bells and whistles" argument. It's unrelated to the price-tag - personally I prefer a compact four-seater. In my book 4m50 / 177.17" is the limit to categorize a car as 'compact' (the quintessential E46 M3 / E46 M3 CSL just stays within that limit): gimme a duck, not a goose.

Absolutely

[TomAce]

I think BMW has done a great job here, because the essence of what a M-car defines (it's all about the Chassis and engine) has been done the right way.

Don't forget, it shall be an entry level car in order to bring new customers to the M-market. And this has worked out, at least for me. The M2 will be my first BMW and it pushes all the right buttons, because it has all that really defines an M-car for me.

I honestly don't care for the mirrors or the scoop. It has a real presence and I'm pretty sure after seeing this car in real life many complaints will fade away.

I think it's a clever package. All the things you are complaining about can be easily modified by yourself and leave a lot room for the aftermarket. So everyone can put M-Mirrors or a new hood on his car.

[Robban]

Originally Posted by TomAce

I think BMW has done a great job here, because the essence of what a M-car defines (it's all about the Chassis and engine) has been done the right way.

Don't forget, it shall be an entry level car in order to bring new customers to the M-market. And this has worked out, at least for me. The M2 will be my first BMW and it pushes all the right buttons, because it has all that really defines an M-car for me.

I honestly don't care for the mirrors or the scoop. It has a real presence and I'm pretty sure after seeing this car in real life many complaints will fade away.

I think it's a clever package. All the things you are complaining about can be easily modified by yourself and leave a lot room for the aftermarket. So everyone can put M-Mirrors or a new hood on his car.

Totally agree!

[rcoccultwar]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Though some may know me in the meantime as quite a dedicated BMW enthusiast, I'm no blind fanboy swallowing with approval whatever is being served by BMW. I remain open-minded, which means also the intrinsic power to criticize and dislike, though try to do so in a balanced and considerate way.

From hindsight, IMHO BMW should not have released the M235i. It's a bold statement, I know, but it's no good to create the perception amongst many BMW enthusiasts of having conceived some "M235is"-ish vehicle, design wise. It doesn't do the ///M brand in general, and the M2 specifically, justice.

True that ///M is all about the chassis. And I'm convinced that the M2 won't fall short with regard thereto. It will be a great driving machine.

But that does not allow to 'go softer' on some design elements. If you name it ///M, then it should be ///M. It creates expectations you got to live up to. The discussion about side mirrors, CF roof, powerdome, etc. may seem silly for most, but it's definitely some sort of stepping on ///M petrol heads' toes: design details that won't break your toes, for sure, but hurt these nevertheless.

But on the other hand, BMW for sure may point out budget and real life production constraints + the strategy of keeping the M2 more or less out of the M3/M4 zone (the very core of the ///M business). Furthermore, there may equally be the rationale not to give away all the goods with the first year of the first generation of the BMW M2 base model. Things may get more 'spicy' with LCI, next generations and certainly with variants (think GTS and CSL). Remember the limited package you got for the first year, first generation Porsche Boxster back in the nineties.

Still, I would not have minded BMW offering all so-called "///M Design Icons" as options (see here). Good choice to offer M Performance Parts for the M2, but, let's face it, these may be perceived as petrol head pacifiers, keeping the M2 base price reasonably low.

Though I'm aware that the Leipzig production facility ain't no candy shop where you can order all things ///M à la carte. True that production of a vehicle is cruelly complex and budgets have to be managed. But, seriously, if that's the main reason, then produce the M2 at another BMW facility. Cut it some slack in the ///M portfolio.

"The legendary «M» is the «most powerful letter in the world»". Fair enough, but then either produce something worth that letter or don't ...or badge it M235is.

In cauda venenum: last month I ordered an M2 and won't skip my order. In the end, it's all about the chassis, you know ?

This kind of gross on an early Monday morning but the mention of the first generation Boxster, brings a lot to focus. (Read 20k easily in options)

To be honest, would not mind the M2 fully loaded to approach but not pass the M3/M4 base price. Ceramic brakes might be a stretch but add special wheels, sports tires, insane furniture price bucket seats, so on and so forth. I'll even say it; the copycat special rear windows like the Toyota flagship concept. I wouldn't be surprised the BMW dealer didn't want my business because I asked if those would void warranty. Even with a Crossfire/Corrado type retractable wing could be had for less than the M3/M4?

[W///]

Originally Posted by Denk

I agree, some of the reasons why I bailed on getting an M2...for now. I'm also still in love with the e92. I'll see how I feel in a few years after LCI with the M2, who knows.

You better keep this one

[Denk]

Originally Posted by W///

You better keep this one

Yes, I agree! I just put a new MPE on it, back in the saddle. Space Gray would be nice on the M2 also. Sorry OP, off topic.