[thecurryman]

I think the M2 fits perfectly in the niche its meant to: a ///M car with M suspension, an engine thats been tuned by the M team (doesn't matter what letter it starts with, you only find this engine in one car- the M2), M specific stylings, etc...

In order to make sure that it doesn't canibalize sales of the more expensive M3, they took away the CF, M mirrors, and seats.

Its purpose is 2 fold: a competition to the CLA AMG/ R3 and a halo car to draw in buyers. Only issue is how much markup will dealers put on this car and for how long. Because right now its easy to get allocations for F8x but M2 allocations aren't as available. On top of that you can easily get an F8x under MSRP and when residuals get better in a few months, what incentive is there to get a M2? Last Feb-April I could lease an M3 with no downpayment for only $650 a month (HK, 19 wheels, and metallic paint) yet the M2 will likely start leasing in the same range for a base model with an MSPR ~$10k less! Who in there right mind would buy an M2 when they could potentially get an M3/4 for the same price?

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by thecurryman

... you only find this engine in one car- the M2...

[AGAV13]

I hope BMW is trolling everyone and at the official unveil they add all the features everyone has had their panties in a bunch over (mirrors, seats, etc.). That would be perfect.

[nlpamg]

This is all the stuff we already knew about the car! All the hate is about aesthetics--oh no, the mirrors, the power dome, the seats! Yes, they bug, but that doesn't change the primary reason for buying the car...

I guess the online hate won't stop until you guys see Chris Harris drifting it around Portimao. Let's see how the car performs first before you throw it over the cliff--that's the reason why you buy an M over a standard car, not the mirrors. I take all my cars to the track, I could care less about how they look to some poser at a car meet.

I have an allocation for the M2. I also currently have its competition, a CLA45 AMG (Stage 2 if that makes a difference), as my beater/daily (I also have a 991 GT3). The CLA45 makes great power, but I'm tired of it. I hate the FWD bias and the fact that I have to turn it on sport to make it go to a 50/50 AWD split kinda bugs me. Hence why I'm looking forward to the M2.

BUT, I drove the M235i today on an autocross course and that car was shit, decent power but twitchy and atrocious steering (the CLA45's steering is MUCH better even though it has a considerable amount of torque steer). It really makes me reconsider purchasing the M2 and possibly just getting another Porsche to compliment my GT3.

However, I want a cheap daily, so I'll probably just stick to this and see how it shakes out. I had an E46 M3 and E60 M5. I remember the glory days, but unfortunately, it's lost now, so you just get what you can and hope that M will come through despite all these things looking negative on paper.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by gthal

If they didn't protect the status of the M3/4, then they couldn't (or wouldn't) sell the M2 for less. That would make zero sense other than pissing off all of the M3/4 owners and discredit the car that, in reality, has pretty much defined BMW M forever. The M2 is their entry level car... not a halo car... and seems to be positioned well as such. Maybe expectations were too high or never reasonable?

I suppose they could have built the M2 to be better than the M3 and charged accordingly but then everyone would be upset that it was unattainable, etc, etc. There is little winning in this... especially for this crowd

However, I do think they should have changed the mirrors and seats (even if that cost a couple of bucks more) if for no other reason other than simply to stop all of the bitching and moaning In all seriousness, I'd like them too but it would be MORE meaningful to me to have better seats than mirrors that I'll never see when driving the car anyway.

The seats are the biggest disappointment for me,I'm not a fan of Dakota Leather.Even my old 1988 E30 325i convertible had better looking sport seats with nice Nappa Leather.

[raysspl]

i guess

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Quasi-M-Car

M2 (Alpine White loaded with M Performance Parts and CF roof wrap) + M3 + M4.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Three crucial words: "Glass sun roof"
Aka moonroof. Insta-add to the options list for me.
This is the first time I've seen any dealer literature with a photo of the moonroof.
(Then again, there are quite a few errors in the document as has been noted ad nauseam.)
Yes, I plan to track my M2. No, I don't think helmet clearance will be an issue.
And yes, if you think 20+ extra pounds will hurt your lap times, you are delusional.

Now that you're raising the moonroof topic: check what happens here in the aftermath of this serious mishap. Unexpected !

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by thecurryman

I think the M2 fits perfectly in the niche its meant to ... Who in there right mind would buy an M2 when they could potentially get an M3/4 for the same price?

Agree. The "1M" was a serious threat to the E92 M3, in terms of outright performance, posting essentially the same time around Hockenheim (just 0.1 second slower.) So how did BMW prevent the cheaper "1M" from cannibalizing M3 sales? By drastically limiting production.

BMW may chicken out and try to prevent the M2 from cannibalizing F80/82 sales by jacking up its price. Maybe not the base price, but BMW could make the base M2 an unbearably low-equipment stripper. You add enough options to make the car livable as a daily driver, et voila. Might as well just get an M3/4 for that big a price tag.

I'm hoping BMW doesn't do that. It would be bad PR for them if nothing else.

(Hockenheim lap times from this story: http://www.bimmerfile.com/2014/06/23...e92-m3-and-1m/)

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

The "1M" was a serious threat to the E92 M3, in terms of outright performance, posting essentially the same time around Hockenheim (just 0.1 second slower.) So how did BMW prevent the cheaper "1M" from cannibalizing M3 sales? By drastically limiting production.

+ manual only: not only for driving fun, but highly likely also to prevent the 1M from 'trespassing' too deep into the E9X M3 comfort zone.

Cayman GT4: same story. And you know what: the story sells well. Porsche GT boss Andreas Preuninger: "We put a manual in the Cayman GT4 for good reason, to show the people we listened. For people to blip the throttle, it’s satisfying. Why not give the people something to play with if they’re longing for that?" (source: here).

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Now that you're raising the moonroof topic: check what happens here in the aftermath of this serious mishap. Unexpected ! ...

Woah. Maybe it should be called the "moonroof / escape hatch" option.
BTW that's why there are emergency doors on the ceilings of buses.
Much easier to get out if the bus lands on its side.

I haven't read the various track day rules for the tracks in my area in any detail, but I need to make sure that moonroofs are legal before I order my M2. (Laguna Seca, Sonoma Raceway, Thunderhill Raceway, BMWCCA Golden Gate Chapter auto crosses etc.)

Only 2 things would stop me from ordering a moonroof: not legal at track days, or if a CF roof were available for the M2. :-(

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by Artemis

+ manual only: not only for driving fun, but highly likely also to prevent the 1M from 'trespassing' too deep into the E9X M3 comfort zone.

Cayman GT4: same story. And you know what: the story sells well. Porsche GT boss Andreas Preuninger: "We put a manual in the Cayman GT4 for good reason, to show the people we listened. For people to blip the throttle, it’s satisfying. Why not give the people something to play with if they’re longing for that?" (source: here).

Good points. Limiting the 1M to 6MT only was part of the overall "hard core" design concept for that car.
And fortunately for BMW it also helped keep the 1M from being faster than the more expensive M cars.

But in the M2, the whole "for people to blip the throttle" idea is nearly gone.
It will blip the throttle for you unless you work hard to find and set exactly the right mode.
Ironically, that mode is the one we would be using on track, which puts us at risk for the "money shift."

[nlpamg]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Woah. Maybe it should be called the "moonroof / escape hatch" option.
BTW that's why there are emergency doors on the ceilings of buses.
Much easier to get out if the bus lands on its side.

I haven't read the various track day rules for the tracks in my area in any detail, but I need to make sure that moonroofs are legal before I order my M2. (Laguna Seca, Sonoma Raceway, Thunderhill Raceway, BMWCCA Golden Gate Chapter auto crosses etc.)

Only 2 things would stop me from ordering a moonroof: not legal at track days, or if a CF roof were available for the M2. :-(

They are legal. No need to worry about that.

I'm not ordering a moonroof on this car because I've had really crappy experience with BMW moonroofs. With my M5, you could always hear the wind buffeting above you, no matter how many times the dealer tried to reseal it. I've also experienced the same on the various BMW loaners I've gotten. (All my MB's, including the ones with panoramic roofs have been perfect in terms of wind noise.)

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by spmd11

I will not buy another M car if this is their idea of honoring M history with yet another dilution of what M means in the BMW brand.

Think of it this way.
By releasing the M2, BMW insures that the M3 and M4 are no longer the low-end baby M cars.
The M3 and M4 are thus promoted to the grown-up table.
Isn't that an honor?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Good points. Limiting the 1M to 6MT only was part of the overall "hard core" design concept for that car.
And fortunately for BMW it also helped keep the 1M from being faster than the more expensive M cars.

But in the M2, the whole "for people to blip the throttle" idea is nearly gone.
It will blip the throttle for you unless you work hard to find and set exactly the right mode.
Ironically, that mode is the one we would be using on track, which puts us at risk for the "money shift."

Actually... The M2 is " for the people ".

If you were here when the 1m was announced ,
The biggest two complaints (aside from No S motor and no CF roof.. And while there was not a mirror gate , there was a fender slit gate .... ). were no blue and no DCT, both of which have been added in the M2.

BMW has given BMW manual enthusiasts " and BMW DCT enthusiasts , "Something to play with " by listening to their market.

Actually BMW has done a better job of staying true to their market as they have not dropped the manual in their M cars like Porsche did with PDK in the 911

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Think of it this way.
By releasing the M2, BMW insures that the M3 and M4 are no longer the low-end baby M cars.
The M3 and M4 are thus promoted to the grown-up table.
Isn't that an honor?

It's the same honor that an accord owner feels now that there is a bigger Honda Civic and a Honda Fit below that. :

This isn't about honor .. it's simply the way nearly all manufacturers have responded to buyers in the market place. They have moved their compact and midsize sedan names upward , whether it is 3 series, C series , Camry, Accord, Maxima , etc and brought in new models below.

[nlpamg]

Originally Posted by Zyzz

991 gt3? Nice, it's the only Porsche I would buy. Must be fun. Can't really compare the gt3 to the m2 at all.

Thanks. I'm not comparing it to the GT3, it's not a fair comparison at a third of the price.

But, I'm hoping it will be better than the car it will be replacing as my DD/beater, a CLA45 AMG. The GT3 stays in the stable until the 991.2 GT3 arrives or I decide to buy a 650S.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Artemis

M2 (Alpine White loaded with M Performance Parts and CF roof wrap) + M3 + M4.

Attachment 1319635

The M2 Pig thinks he is just like his M Brothers.

I have a Cat that thinks he is a Dog.

To funny, but spot on !

[Nahlem]

Originally Posted by nlpamg

This is all the stuff we already knew about the car! All the hate is about aesthetics--oh no, the mirrors, the power dome, the seats! Yes, they bug, but that doesn't change the primary reason for buying the car...

I guess the online hate won't stop until you guys see Chris Harris drifting it around Portimao. Let's see how the car performs first before you throw it over the cliff--that's the reason why you buy an M over a standard car, not the mirrors. I take all my cars to the track, I could care less about how they look to some poser at a car meet.

I have an allocation for the M2. I also currently have its competition, a CLA45 AMG (Stage 2 if that makes a difference), as my beater/daily (I also have a 991 GT3). The CLA45 makes great power, but I'm tired of it. I hate the FWD bias and the fact that I have to turn it on sport to make it go to a 50/50 AWD split kinda bugs me. Hence why I'm looking forward to the M2.

BUT, I drove the M235i today on an autocross course and that car was shit, decent power but twitchy and atrocious steering (the CLA45's steering is MUCH better even though it has a considerable amount of torque steer). It really makes me reconsider purchasing the M2 and possibly just getting another Porsche to compliment my GT3.

However, I want a cheap daily, so I'll probably just stick to this and see how it shakes out. I had an E46 M3 and E60 M5. I remember the glory days, but unfortunately, it's lost now, so you just get what you can and hope that M will come through despite all these things looking negative on paper.

If you have porches why bother buying an M2 as DD cause it ain't gonna be cheap running as daily driver?

Wouldn't it be better to buy a simple diesel or something as dd if you are driving all your cars on the track then i understand the choice of a Porshe its a great balanced car with an engine to go with it but looks of the car it could be mistaken for being done 20 years ago just taken care of very nicely. That is my biggest dislike on Porshes cars they still look the same after so many years and after a while it gets kinda boring and dull even if the performance gets better and better why bother driving a car that could be mistaken for being created 20 years ago. But as you have said its for track use so i guess you transport it to the track and don't drive it to it. But in that case i would preferably chosen an Ariel Atom or equally for track use that is way way more fun then a Porshe and cheaper to.

At least the M2/M235i looks like they were made this century. I have also driven the CLA45 and i found it really a dull car it din't feel as sharp as the And also drove the AMG A45 same there rattles sounds heavy feel not at all as responsive as the BMWs. A lot of weird noises in the cabin squiking sounds and such i hate such stuff in a car from 2015 there should be absolute silent from all components installed on the car except for the engine & exhaust otherwise it should be silent.

Also test drove the Audi S3 Sedan it was great fun also but it had this feel to it to be insecure in it self like it was a sports car yeah but it wasn't sure of it self so it din't inspire to push it to the maximum. But the cabin sounds like rattles and squiks and such were gone.

Also driven the Ferrari 458 Italia and Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 570-4

Freaking fantastic cars you can't compare it to anything else but yes there is a but even after i drove the 458 and the 570-4 there was squking sounds, rattles and all weird stuff metal grinding sounds. They were all there i am not saying those car were shit absolutely not but the exclusive feel wasn't there. In that case a BMW delivers more feel to material and quality of the cars in that case. The Ferrari though was a lot better then the Lamborghini. In feel of quality.

Agree on the M235i lacking steering feel it bothers me a lot from time to time and causes some irritation to where i am feeling my wheels. And i guess they will work on creating better version of it but going back to hydraulic steering i don't think this is ever going to be the case they have to move one and develop something new. And electric steering will probably be developed to be better and better in the future. So let that thing with "It was better with previous steering" go because that its kinda like wanting to go back in time.

But the twitchy feel well not really when you learn to handle the cars behavior, If you put it in sport+ then yes there is a fine line where it will start to feel twitchy. But it all comes down to how you handle the response of the gas pedal in sport+ cause yeah it reacts faster then in regular mode, Also there is a setting called DSTC Complete off where it opens the exhaust completely and removes all steering assisting and the pedal remains in regular mode where there is an flat and even response from it.

Then yeah E46 BMW M3 was a great car but there is something called moving on to a new level. If you feel that all new cars that comes are shit that's to bad but letting the cars be like they were 10-20 years ago would be even worse.

This sentimental stuff that is all over auto forums around the world needs to end really soon. Because when you take the whole package of a car and what it delivers the most new cars are better then the previous ones not saying all but most are. Its just the fond memory of the first time experience of a certain car that people tend to relay back to and then simply dislike the new cars. But in all fairness most new cars are better a lot better then the previous ones.

A friend of mine had an E46 M3 and he kept it for a long time. The car was great for what it was but after buying my M235i i went back to that car just for the drive yeah its a great drive but man it felt so old, all the sounds in the cabin, the rattles, the looks everything look so dated. So yeah if you have a fond memory of a car don't find another one because you will loose those precious moments from it when compared to the new car.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Now that you're raising the moonroof topic: check what happens here in the aftermath of this serious mishap. Unexpected !

What an idiot!

[doccyber]

Clear differentiation vs. BMW M235i.

Hmmmm. Let's see. The mirrors and seats look the same.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Let the madness continue...

Huh?

No powerdome.

No M mirrors.

No M bucket seats.