[Seagull]

Originally Posted by G8rGrl

Finally...a well-reasoned opinion!

Some prior responses were so rude. It seems as though some people have "married" the idea of buying an M2 no matter what the mechanics of the car really are, and so they get pretty defensive when anyone suggests there might be a different (though unequal) option.

It's the internet. People's true personalities show through - good or bad.

Thanks for your response!

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by M3 n X5M

OP, Sounds like you have not owned an M car.

Maybe some time driving an M3 even an older model will clarify.

The new M2 will have most of the M4 suspension etc... We have listed it before, including a true differential, cooling, forged crankshaft, pistons, rings, sealed engine, optimized turbo, intake, tranny (dct).

There is no comparison.

You are correct sir. Never owned but driven the current gen M3, M4 and M5 on the track. I'm sure owning one would give me a much better picture. Buying an M2 without a test drive (no matter where the M components are sourced from ) feels a bit like buying something sight unseen. Hence the faith part in the M Engineers.

[M3 n X5M]

Originally Posted by Seagull

You are correct sir. Never owned but driven the current gen M3, M4 and M5 on the track. I'm sure owning one would give me a much better picture. Buying an M2 without a test drive (no matter where the M components are sourced from ) feels a bit like buying something sight unseen. Hence the faith part in the M Engineers.

The 340i is intended for a more general purpose with softer settings and less dynamic operation.

I would put an M car in a different class when cross shopping.

And yes, sight unseen, the M2 lives only in our thoughts and not in our experience.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by k2pilot

Simple, I don't like big fat cars.

I guess you don't like your S4 then.

[Makman]

Originally Posted by Seagull

Hmmmm

Why not consider the 340i or the 240i when it comes out? In a sense, will the m2 be obsoleted by this? Or at least will some of the shine from the M2 will be diminished by this?

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1191782

Q: What are the expected gains for the 340i MPPK (ECU + Exhaust)?
A: We're not ready to share final numbers, but expect it to be around 360hp (going from 240kw to 265kw), and 369 lb-ft (going from 450Nm to 500Nm).

If you are all about HP, then pls, dont even bother writing here, just get the 340i. If other performance things matter, then dont mind the 340i when you compare it to M2.

Its this simple.

[the_phew]

340i Msport+Track Pack+19s+leather+MPPK+LSD+CF trim is over $60k. That's hard to justify even compared to a base M3, nonetheless the M2.

M2 will be significantly cheaper in terms of MSRP, although actual sale price and lease prices will probably favor the 340i.

I have 2 young kids, and 4 doors and a hatch would be awfully handy. An M2 Gran Coupe would really check all the boxes for me, but I doubt BMW will bless us with that.

Don't laugh, but the Focus RS may be the next best thing. That torque vectoring system looks legit! Yes, it has the interior of a Focus, but the M2 ain't exactly a Bentley inside either.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Unless the M2 is like 15k more expensive than the M240i (once it is out) it is going to be a much better car in every aspect.

The gap in power might not be as great, a few HP, but don't forget, it is currently a bit lighter than the 235, and I would be willing to bet the 240 might gain a couple of pounds here and there.

In any case, the cost of the suspension and brakes alone is worthwhile alone. If I had one complaint about my M235i... its that the suspension is too soft. Id get the M2 for that reason alone, even if they made the same power.

[Spook410]

Originally Posted by Makman

If you are all about HP, then pls, dont even bother writing here, just get the 340i. If other performance things matter, then dont mind the 340i when you compare it to M2.

Its this simple.

Seems to be a few in this thread keep reading 'power is all that matters' from other posters. Not sure why. As far as I can tell nobody in this thread ever said or implied that. Anybody here could quote chapter and verse what suspension bits were carried over from the M3/M4, why it's important that they are lighter (though honestly, I don't know by how much), what to expect from the geometry, and what the adaptive limited slip does. Along with every other detail of the car and what the feature implies to us as drivers and consumers. Part of what makes the forum interesting.

On the other hand, power is certainly quite important. If it wasn't we would all be driving base Cayman's. Or Miata's.

[k2pilot]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

I guess you don't like your S4 then.

Nope, definitely not a fan, I've been waiting years to sell it for the M2. And alas, the audi RS3 wasn't available when I lived in Colorado – and even then, it doesn't exist with a manual. Needed that forced induction and AWD (without some shoddy off-center front driveshaft like bmw offers does on the x-drive).

Now I live in San Francisco, and it's a pain in the ass living with a large vehicle (I never liked them big anyways, but now it's a practical disadvantage).


I'll still probably end up being frustrated in a car in my city, but it will be there for rainy days and sliding around sideways. Compliments my bike nicely till then though

Fall Riding by Ian Brooke, on Flickr

[termigni]

why get an M2 over a 340i?

BECAUSE ///M.

[RaidersFan]

Personally, power output doesn't mean much. I would rather take a car with a lower power output (325hp) and full-on M performance suspension and tires, vs. a higher output 375hp wet noodle like a 340i. It's about the driving experience, not the power. And the 340i lags in the driving experience department.

[Taunto]

Because Race Car!!!

[Spook410]

Originally Posted by dawgcatching

Personally, power output doesn't mean much. I would rather take a car with a lower power output (325hp) and full-on M performance suspension and tires, vs. a higher output 375hp wet noodle like a 340i. It's about the driving experience, not the power. And the 340i lags in the driving experience department.

While I don't agree that a 340 with the track package is a wet noodle, I also don't think it will be in the same league as a tuned M car. Of course, there is the Mercedes C450 with all the AMG 63 suspension bits that might be interesting for someone looking for that sort of car.

In any case, if power doesn't matter at all to you, why not get a base Cayman? They are (probably) about the same cost as an M2 and are one of the best handling cars in the world.

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by Spook410

While I don't agree that a 340 with the track package is a wet noodle, I also don't think it will be in the same league as a tuned M car. Of course, there is the Mercedes C450 with all the AMG 63 suspension bits that might be interesting for someone looking for that sort of car.

In any case, if power doesn't matter at all to you, why not get a base Cayman? They are (probably) about the same cost as an M2 and are one of the best handling cars in the world.

He's not saying power is a bad thing. He's saying that it's the total package that matters. I don't think you're going to find a overall performer like the M2 in this price range. At least not one that gives you the practicality and class of the M2.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by Spook410

In any case, if power doesn't matter at all to you, why not get a base Cayman? They are (probably) about the same cost as an M2 and are one of the best handling cars in the world.

Overall cost for me. A stripper Cayman leases as much as a stripper M3, a car costing $10k more. Scheduled maintenance on the Cayman is extra as well and doesn't have a back seat.

[Spook410]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

Overall cost for me. A stripper Cayman leases as much as a stripper M3, a car costing $10k more. Scheduled maintenance on the Cayman is extra as well and doesn't have a back seat.

Sorry for the long post.. sitting here drinking coffee avoiding painting chores.

All good points. Must admit I don't know anything about leasing or lease rates from various manufacturers. When I go to Edmunds and choose reasonable options (just a few performance bits) I end up in the high 50's which shouldn't be too far off from a well sorted M2.

Thing is.. if I could not care about power, this is what I would do. Though likely a 2014 used one. Even with the flaws you hear about (e.g. tall gearing), they possess great build quality ,poise, and styling that makes one smile. They are a fine tool for a skilled driver on twisting roads. Unfortunately, like many here, I have a passion for driving but actual skill appropriate to a finely tuned instrument? Umm.. no.

The lack of torque would bother me. I want instant gratification. I want to discard driving patience as a superfluous virtue. I want to pass safely in short spaces. I want to power out of a corner I didn't carry enough speed into. I want that adrenaline rush you get when you sink your right foot on a freeway entrance ramp. And I want this in a car with outstanding dynamics, good ergo's, decent build quality, and because I do like twisty roads as well; great handling and engagement. So.. an M2.

[dmboone25]

I had the 235 for about a year and a half. It was my 5th and worst BMW. It was a wet noodle that was completely disappointing.

The M2, which is an F80 M3 from the belt line down, will be significantly better in all areas related to performance.

It's not going to be close.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by dawgcatching

Personally, power output doesn't mean much. I would rather take a car with a lower power output (325hp) and full-on M performance suspension and tires, vs. a higher output 375hp wet noodle like a 340i. It's about the driving experience, not the power. And the 340i lags in the driving experience department.

Completely right. That's why I moved to the 981 CS. It's got less power than the 235, but is appreciably better in every driving circumstance that I've put it through.

Unless you are stop light racer, there's no comparison. And if that's your thing, well there's many cheaper and better options.

The 235 (and 240 when it gets here) are weirdly placed cars for BMW. The M2 is the ultimate small BMW coupe and the 228 is the value option. Not sure what niche the 235 fills....

[spmd11]

Originally Posted by Alden_88M

The M235i or future M240i is also tuned by the M boys/girls but not to that extreme extent that the M2 is.Almost every aspect of the M235i is not a BMW "Standard" thing it is tuned by the M division but not as much as the M2 is and therefor its called M235i and not M2

Cause if the M boys/girls were only to work exclusively with the "M" cars they would have gone bankrupt by now. Then you have the standard cars for example the 2 series you have 218i, 220i, 228i, Those haven't been tuned by "M". But with M135/M235/M550D all of those they have been tuned by "M" division but are not full blooded "M" cars.

So there is a lot of stuff to consider when buying either the M235i/M240i or the M2.
You can either go full "M" and get the different body kit wider tiers better looking rims a bit sportier engine, sportier exhaust system and those stuff.

Or you can go somewhere in between not fully hardcore "M" and go for M235i/M240i and have comfort and sport in one and the same package with cheaper insurance cost and stuff. But not to be fooled they are good sports car they have been tuned by "M" division but they are not full blooded "M" cars. So you don't have that super sport suspension, you don't get those wider tires from factory (You can add them later on probably), You don't get super sport "M" brakes that will snap your neck off.

Or you can go all standard 2 Series 228i with more comfort then sport. And ofc you can add the "M-Sport" body kit and the "M-Brakes", "M-Suspension" to make it feel more sportier but by then you could jump for a few extra bucks pay for M235i/M240i and get a car that has been tuned by "M" division from start and rather then adding extra stuff to make it feel sportier Witch will probably cost more. Or you can go as i stated before "Full M" but then the price is a big matter.

Remember if it has an "M" before its model name like M235i it probably has been tuned by "M" division but is not hardcore "M" and therefore not classified as the real "M" models. Thats probably the best explanation i can give for this subject.

228i Standard Car
228i M-Sport (M kit for sportier feel but engine and stuff probably hasn't been tuned by M division)

M235i M-Tuned car from start with sportier suspension,brakes,wheels etc... But not hardcore M

M2 The real M with all parts revised by the ///M Team therefor called a real M-Car

M2 CSL (Future) The real M with a death wish to kill anyone who sits in it :-)

I own two e9x M3's. I don't consider the new M2 a true M car. It is a half baked effort.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Spook410

Sorry for the long post.. sitting here drinking coffee avoiding painting chores.

All good points. Must admit I don't know anything about leasing or lease rates from various manufacturers. When I go to Edmunds and choose reasonable options (just a few performance bits) I end up in the high 50's which shouldn't be too far off from a well sorted M2.

Thing is.. if I could not care about power, this is what I would do. Though likely a 2014 used one. Even with the flaws you hear about (e.g. tall gearing), they possess great build quality ,poise, and styling that makes one smile. They are a fine tool for a skilled driver on twisting roads. Unfortunately, like many here, I have a passion for driving but actual skill appropriate to a finely tuned instrument? Umm.. no.

The lack of torque would bother me. I want instant gratification. I want to discard driving patience as a superfluous virtue. I want to pass safely in short spaces. I want to power out of a corner I didn't carry enough speed into. I want that adrenaline rush you get when you sink your right foot on a freeway entrance ramp. And I want this in a car with outstanding dynamics, good ergo's, decent build quality, and because I do like twisty roads as well; great handling and engagement. So.. an M2.

The thing about the Cayman is that it makes you feel like you're the hero - it does all the hard work and you get all the satisfaction. It's just so well sorted that you can't believe you've been missing out on it your whole life.

I had three turbo BMWs before my 981 CS. It wasn't hard to manage the differences in engine characteristics because I also have a Ducati monster. You simply have to be one hear lower than the turbo equivalent. Live above 4K RPM and all is well...similar to the S65 guys.

I also average 13 MPG but I don't give a shit. If I cared about that, I'd drive something else.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

Overall cost for me. A stripper Cayman leases as much as a stripper M3, a car costing $10k more. Scheduled maintenance on the Cayman is extra as well and doesn't have a back seat.

That's because P cars don't lease well - I am a habitual leasing guy and I bought my Cayman S.

There's more utility to the 981 than meets the eye too - my girlfriend and I spent this weekend in Austin in a cabin on Travis lake - she literally had 4 bags. Plus mine. They fit with no issue.

Ps - I have no kids so a back seat doesn't mean much to me. In fact, I see it as a positive - my girl or one buddy rides with me, no extras.

Also, if you're on the fence, don't test drive one. Because then it's over. :

[Spook410]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

The thing about the Cayman is..

Thing is.. what about the base Cayman versus the Cayman S? If one insists on the 'S' model which offers adequate torque even for the impatient among us, we're back to 'power matters'. I would prefer a Cayman S over the M2 and I keep looking for the right used one (or a 911 for that matter). In the meantime, it's the M2.