[Spook410]

Why not a 340: Overall softer car though would like to drive one with the track and performance package.

Why not a M240: Long wait for the LCI version. Steering will still suck at least until then. Might be 95% as much fun to drive outside of the track.

Ask me again when we know what the M2 is going to cost.

[doccyber]

The final cost of M2 is going to be a big factor. M240i if no price increase and more power but M2 if it comes below 53K.

[moldcad]

As to the M2 pricing, we already know it in Poland and it's so low that actually for the first time ever I had this moment of M235i buyer's remorse, and how I could wait just one more year driving my previous F10 and still could afford to swap it for the M2.

Suffice to say that a fully loaded M2 is just 10% more expensive than my fully loaded M235i+LSD

[moldcad]

Double post deleted(

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by Spook410

Almost. The 'M Sport' is supposed to be in between the base model and a real M. So, a M235 is, theoretically anyway, closer to the M2 than a 335 is to an M3. If they came out with an M340 that would be interesting.

Basically the only difference on the M235i compared to a 218d M sport is the engine. So it is hardly any closer to a M2.

[Artemis]

The M2 is a harmoniously integrated package, with many parts revised/replaced.

That's why it's not pigeon-holed as a 'variant', but as a 'stand-alone version' of the 2-Series. Alike the M3, M4, M5 and M6 are stand-alone versions of the 3, 4, 5 and 6-Series.

It's different - it's another league for much more than merely marketing reasons. More 'reworked' than 'add-on jobs'.

Think of so-called 12" maxi versions of pop records in the 80s: you had so-called 'extended versions', but you also had 'remixes' (rework, requiring more input). The M2 is a kind of remix/re-edit/mash-up of an M235i with M3/M4 elements, as well as new elements, into some new harmoniously integrated total package.

And the M Performance Parts for the M2 ? Add-on jobs !

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by Spook410

Almost. The 'M Sport' is supposed to be in between the base model and a real M. So, a M235 is, theoretically anyway, closer to the M2 than a 335 is to an M3. If they came out with an M340 that would be interesting.

My point exactly. The ///M cars are so much more than the lower variant it's no contest.

Forgot one:

F30335i the an F80M3

T

[shivaswrath]

#becausracecar #duh

[TheNeonTiger]

I still can't believe no adaptive suspension on M2. That and adaptive cruise control were musts for my next car. Makes it tough to go with an M2 for a daily driver. I had a A3 TDI with the titanium sports package and the extra firm suspension was great for on and off ramps, but the potholes could rip me a new one! I need something that I can soften on the fly if the roads get bad. 240i may end up being the way I go after all.

I am looking forward to reading reviews of the M2 and hearing how the suspension hold up to daily driving. Based on the announced info, it looks like its not getting adaptive cruise control, which does't make sense if this is pitched as a daily driver thats also a track car. Bummer.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by TheNeonTiger

I still can't believe no adaptive suspension on M2. That and adaptive cruise control were musts for my next car. Makes it tough to go with an M2 for a daily driver. I had a A3 TDI with the titanium sports package and the extra firm suspension was great for on and off ramps, but the potholes could rip me a new one! I need something that I can soften on the fly if the roads get bad. 240i may end up being the way I go after all.

I am looking forward to reading reviews of the M2 and hearing how the suspension hold up to daily driving. Based on the announced info, it looks like its not getting adaptive cruise control, which does't make sense if this is pitched as a daily driver thats also a track car. Bummer.

are you kidding? I had an A3 titanium sport package back in 2010 and it was as soft as a Twinkie.

I think the M2 is the wrong car for you. Have you considered a Lexus?

[TheNeonTiger]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

are you kidding? I had an A3 titanium sport package back in 2010 and it was as soft as a Twinkie.

I think the M2 is the wrong car for you. Have you considered a Lexus?

Haha ok well yours might have been a Twinkie, but mine for sure was stiff. Much stiffer than the comfort and standard settings on the S3 and m235i I test drove. Haha Lexus. Is there something wrong with getting a car that can be both comfortable and stiff on command?

[Spook410]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

Basically the only difference on the M235i compared to a 218d M sport is the engine. So it is hardly any closer to a M2.

While we don't have the 218d here, there is the 228 with the track package that upgrades the brakes, suspension, and (arguably) the steering to the same as a 235. However, given the power difference, the 235 is a whole lot closer to the M2. And with the B58 coming, it's going to be closer in power still. And yea, power isn't everything. However it does make a significant difference in the driving experience.

Looks like the suspension and the smart limited slip diff are going to be the big differences. Also DCT for some. Certainly important for the track. Maybe not so much for the street. M2 will still make sense if it's cheap enough.

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

My point exactly. The ///M cars are so much more than the lower variant it's no contest.

Forgot one:

F30335i the an F80M3

T

...This stirred up a bit more discussion than I thought it would.

I agree with these statements and similar ones above.

Basically, there will ALWAYS be an option to buy a car with MORE horsepower than the M2. You can look at tuning for this or you can look outside the brand to other cars. This hp comparison and deficit happens to the E30, E36, E46, and E9x M3's all the time in the present day. Those people comparing purely on HP have different concerns/agenda than the M Engineers built this car for. And to those people, this sanity check matters and the M2 may not be for them. Hp wars is the bare stats war ( hp:x, tq:y, 0-100:z vs...)

But these M cars are still admired by the casual car enthusiasts as well as track junkies all around the world to this day. The reason is the entire package. Personal driving experience and track involvement will trump the basic stats concern for these people. This is what all M's bring to the table. For stat whores, don't look at the pure hp/tq numbers alone, but look at the lap times. But even that may hold little value when you are talking about a complete package. For those buying an M car because it is an M car ( the whole package ), the hp/tq argument likely will not sway this type of buyer. Their gaze and target are fixed.

** BUT unfortunately, we will not see any journalist reviews until the new year. And I think this is where some of the stats discussion and angst comes from. Many of us will order before we can test drive it or even see any meaningful reviews of it. It's tough to weigh driver involvement vs stats, especially when no one can sample the driver involvement.

This is a concern to me, but I should have faith in the BMW Engineers that:

1. Steering is MMMagnificent
2. Suspension is MMMagnificent
3. Engine characteristics are MMMagnificent
4. In short, Driver engagement is MMMega

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by Spook410

While we don't have the 218d here, there is the 228 with the track package that upgrades the brakes, suspension, and (arguably) the steering to the same as a 235. However, given the power difference, the 235 is a whole lot closer to the M2. And with the B58 coming, it's going to be closer in power still. And yea, power isn't everything. However it does make a significant difference in the driving experience.

Looks like the suspension and the smart limited slip diff are going to be the big differences. Also DCT for some. Certainly important for the track. Maybe not so much for the street. M2 will still make sense if it's cheap enough.

In my opinion power is not even in the top 3 of things that make a M. Power is easy to add to any (turbo) car. What is harder to add is the M-feeling with recalibrated balance, steering and suspension ect and that is what makes a M to me together with the visual experience.

So even if the M240i gets the B58 with a power kit which would put it pretty much on par power wise with the M2 it is still far from M2 feeling in my book as it lacks all of the above. All this is of course based on the speculation that the M division deliver as promised.

But as all people have different opinions I have no problem seeing that people see it the way you do.

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

In my opinion power is not even in the top 3 of things that make a M. Power is easy to add to any (turbo) car. What is harder to add is the M-feeling with recalibrated balance, steering and suspension ect and that is what makes a M to me together with the visual experience.

So even if the M240i gets the B58 with a power kit which would put it pretty much on par power wise with the M2 it is still far from M2 feeling in my book as it lacks all of the above. All this is of course based on the speculation that the M division deliver as promised.

But as all people have different opinions I have no problem seeing that people see it the way you do.

WRT to the engine, that's still a big unknown for me.

Component wise I know the list of deltas between the normal N55 and the M2 engine, but what will this translate to for it's behaviour? I hope it is significantly different that a simple tune will not work on both. i.e. there is something "special" about the M2 engine and therefore some more exclusivity to it. I hope that it will have a character that a tune on the pedestrian N55 cannot duplicate.

I don't know for sure, but reading some threads, the 1M, 335is basically have the same engine and both can take the same tune. Yes the 1M has more than just the engine to make it special, but just focusing on the engine, I hope that the 1M engine is exclusive only to it and that the "is" cannot reflect the same feel.

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by Seagull

WRT to the engine, that's still a big unknown for me.

Component wise I know the list of deltas between the normal N55 and the M2 engine, but what will this translate to for it's behaviour? I hope it is significantly different that a simple tune will not work on both. i.e. there is something "special" about the M2 engine and therefore some more exclusivity to it. I hope that it will have a character that a tune on the pedestrian N55 cannot duplicate.

I don't know for sure, but reading some threads, the 1M, 335is basically have the same engine and both can take the same tune. Yes the 1M has more than just the engine to make it special, but just focusing on the engine, I hope that the 1M engine is exclusive only to it and that the "is" cannot reflect the same feel.

I noticed that your post before mine was pretty much saying the exact same thing, posted within seconds from each other. Funny.

But regarding the engine... I think it will be hard to drastically change the engine based on what they have changed but hopefully as you say the feeling and eagerness to rev/pull is improved some steps above the regular N55, to add to the M-feeling.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by TheNeonTiger

Is there something wrong with getting a car that can be both comfortable and stiff on command?

Compared to my 1M----the A3 felt super super soft....the 1M is hard as nails most of the time and i love it! Feel everything...

IMO sports cars should have a fixed suspension----and they should be HARD and communicative. I think the M2 deserves a fixed suspension too....i'm old school. I don't like all this comfort/twinkie settings stuff!!! Guess i'm a bit of a luddite...

The A3, S3, or M235i are not sports cars....

[shivaswrath]

The normal N55 ain't no slouch, so I think the fact that they added revised Pistons, higher boost, and a forged crank than can handle a bit more "whip" spells a reliable, high revving track friendly car with the right mix of light suspension bits from the larger siblings...I'm really stoked about this car, and just waiting to see if my wife and I have another kid to determine whether my f30 with bolt on goodies gets traded in for the car I tried to build with M performance parts

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

The normal N55 ain't no slouch, so I think the fact that they added revised Pistons, higher boost, and a forged crank than can handle a bit more "whip" spells a reliable, high revving track friendly car with the right mix of light suspension bits from the larger siblings...I'm really stoked about this car, and just waiting to see if my wife and I have another kid to determine whether my f30 with bolt on goodies gets traded in for the car I tried to build with M performance parts

From the notice here: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1192781

It looks like the tach will reach 8k as opposed to 7.5k on the normal n55.

[M3 n X5M]

OP, Sounds like you have not owned an M car.

Maybe some time driving an M3 even an older model will clarify.

The new M2 will have most of the M4 suspension etc... We have listed it before, including a true differential, cooling, forged crankshaft, pistons, rings, sealed engine, optimized turbo, intake, tranny (dct).

There is no comparison.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Seagull

This is a concern to me, but I should have faith in the BMW Engineers that:

1. Steering is MMMagnificent
2. Suspension is MMMagnificent
3. Engine characteristics are MMMagnificent
4. In short, Driver engagement is MMMega

Add: MMMore cash on resale day.

If the financial delta M240i - M2 is one of the major reasons for some for opting for the M240i in the end: think again.

The M2 is the most affordable, compact ///M car. I'm pretty convinced that loss of resale value in cash will be more limited for the M2 than for the M240i or bigger ///M cars.

Furthermore, with the M240i the mod bug may make you dig a little deeper into your wallet in order to upgrade it furthermore.

And you may tell yourself many times whilst behind the wheel of the M240i that it's (f)actually 'as good as', 'virtually' or 'quasi' an M2, you know deep down in your petrol head heart that it ain't. And if you don't, at least the potential buyer (including the dealership, if you'd consider a trade-in on resale day) will remind you to it.

Hence, if you're really considering either an M240i or an M2, take my advice: get the M2 (if available + available for MRSP or less) and never look back. And if you do: check your bank account and your face in the mirror on resale day.

[G8rGrl]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Add: MMMore cash on resale day.

If the financial delta M240i - M2 is one of the major reasons for some for opting for the M240i in the end: think again.

The M2 is the most affordable, compact ///M car. I'm pretty convinced that loss of resale value in cash will be more limited for the M2 than for the M240i or bigger ///M cars.

Furthermore, with the M240i the mod bug may make you dig a little deeper into your wallet in order to upgrade it furthermore.

And you may tell yourself many times whilst behind the wheel of the M240i that it's (f)actually 'as good as', 'virtually' or 'quasi' an M2, you know deep down in your petrol head heart that it ain't. And if you don't, at least the potential buyer (including the dealership, if you'd consider a trade-in on resale day) will remind you to it.

Hence, if you're really considering either an M240i or an M2, take my advice: get the M2 (if available + available for MRSP or less) and never look back. And if you do: check your bank account and your face in the mirror on resale day.

Finally...a well-reasoned opinion!

Some prior responses were so rude. It seems as though some people have "married" the idea of buying an M2 no matter what the mechanics of the car really are, and so they get pretty defensive when anyone suggests there might be a different (though unequal) option.