[Big Tuna]

Originally Posted by Big Tuna

Personally deciding among for DD, trying to decide if the higher end stuff is worth more over m2:

cayman s
m2 (#1 on local list)
c7
f80
jcw mini (used to have one, tons of fun)

I drove a c7 and Cayman S back to back today and now I'm wavering on the m2.

The c7 - hilarious power but still feels kind of cheap.

981s - first choice but most expensive.

[fuddman]

Boxster Spyder

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by fuddman

Boxster Spyder

It starts at $82k I would probably get a loaded M3/M4 for that price

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by cntzl

It starts at $82k

I know.

Originally Posted by cntzl

I would probably get a loaded M3/M4 for that price

I wouldn't. Speaking for myself, of course.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Big Tuna

I drove a c7 and Cayman S back to back today and now I'm wavering on the m2.

The c7 - hilarious power but still feels kind of cheap.

981s - first choice but most expensive.

C7 - Because it is...
GT350 - See above..
981 - first on the list and oh so much more expen$ive.. gonna swing for those fences?

based on looking at the remaining items on your list... i'd say it's all downhill from here towards an M2

[Big Tuna]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

C7 - Because it is...
GT350 - See above..
981 - first on the list and oh so much more expen$ive.. gonna swing for those fences?

based on looking at the remaining items on your list... i'd say it's all downhill from here towards an M2

Yeah the F80 is pretty much out unless the pricing on m2 is way higher than expected and that coincides with a very high residual month on m3. I prefer the m2 size (or smaller, even) but won't pay near m3 money on a lease.

The 981s is a stunning car to drive and I can only imagine the GTS and GT4 are even better. But then you're in the $80K range. ouch.

The c7 is interesting. It sounds amazing and is very very fast. Feels bigger than it is. The thing that bugs me about it is there seem to be attention to detail issues that could have been better without costing much or anything really. The interior, while improved, is clearly a notch below even BMW. For instance, the buttons around the console, while I don't mind if they're plastic necessarily, why not a better grade of plastic? Why do you have to use a shitty font, with poor kerning, that's hard to read? It's like the hot rock and roll chic who's a lot of fun but the closer you look the more red flags you see. Fun today but you get a sense that its not going to age well. It's also impossible to go anywhere discreetly in it. At least the 981 will quiet down a bit when you want it to.
But man, that sound.

I keep finding myself on the MINI website checking out the JCW car. I've had 2 in the past and they're fun to beat the crap out of. Just not sure I want to do a 3rd and the styling is debatable. It would be the cheapest option though.

[Yellowflash21]

Sorry folks, I will be very short by saying that there is no alternative for it...



https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153711264151303

[MR.]

Guys, in all honesty...

Can someone please name me one competitor car in the M2 price range with RWD and the performance from the M2?

Do not look at second vehicles.... Only new models! I have been thinking and I cannot find any car that delivers the same kind of refinement, RWD and package for the price tag of the M2.


MR

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by MR.

Guys, in all honesty...

Can someone please name me one competitor car in the M2 price range with RWD and the performance from the M2?

Do not look at second vehicles.... Only new models! I have been thinking and I cannot find any car that delivers the same kind of refinement, RWD and package for the price tag of the M2.


MR

Guess it depends on what you mean by "performance," but the Cayman, Mustang, and Camaro come to mind.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by Gibson6594

Guess it depends on what you mean by "performance," but the Cayman, Mustang, and Camaro come to mind.

Camaro? Mustang? really... brilliant for burnouts, but do not try to go through a corner with those things. Tried the new V8 Mustang. Lot of car for its money but the only thing I really liked was the line lock feature.

Cayman is a lot more expensive than the M2 and less powerful. And it misses two seats in the back.

MR

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by MR.

Camaro? Mustang? really... brilliant for burnouts, but do not try to go through a corner with those things. Tried the new V8 Mustang. Lot of car for its money but the only thing I really liked was the line lock feature.

Cayman is a lot more expensive than the M2 and less powerful. And it misses two seats in the back.

MR

I don't know, man. The GT350 can be had for around the price of an M2 and I bet you it takes a corner just as well if not better.

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by MR.

Camaro? Mustang? really... brilliant for burnouts, but do not try to go through a corner with those things. Tried the new V8 Mustang. Lot of car for its money but the only thing I really liked was the line lock feature.

Cayman is a lot more expensive than the M2 and less powerful. And it misses two seats in the back.

MR

Have you driven any of them?

[MR.]

Read my reply again...

- Drove Cayman and S, and GT4 last week
- Camaro few years ago, did not drive the new one
- Mustang V8 6 months ago


MR

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by MR.

Read my reply again...

- Drove Cayman and S, and GT4 last week
- Camaro few years ago, did not drive the new one
- Mustang V8 6 months ago


MR

Not going to try to change your opinion, but I think plenty would disagree with you on these cars not being on par, if not beyond, the M2's performance.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by MR.

Read my reply again...

- Drove Cayman and S, and GT4 last week
- Camaro few years ago, did not drive the new one
- Mustang V8 6 months ago


MR

I think the M2 is going to be awesome but no one knows the pricing yet - let's see where that comes down and we can debate then.

I have said a few times already that the M2 will offer a great "bang for the buck" alternative to the 981, but will likely be more expensive than the Chevy or Ford alternatives - it's all about what you're looking for and what's important to you.

For example, the 981.2 with the flat turbo 4 will likely be much faster than my flat 6 - there's always going to be improvements made and better offerings - buy what you want and be satisfied with it.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I think the M2 is going to be awesome but no one knows the pricing yet - let's see where that comes down and we can debate then.

I have said a few times already that the M2 will offer a great "bang for the buck" alternative to the 981, but will likely be more expensive than the Chevy or Ford alternatives - it's all about what you're looking for and what's important to you.

For example, the 981.2 with the flat turbo 4 will likely be much faster than my flat 6 - there's always going to be improvements made and better offerings - buy what you want and be satisfied with it.

I feel I am talking to a group of US based people here. I know the price of my M2, I even know when it is coming and a GT350... Tsja a Mustang. I never thought of buying one in favor of a BMW. I think it is a European thing. Special Edition Mustangs tend to become ridiculous expensive via cross import. As far as I know we do not even have the GT350 as a standard dealer model.

MR

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Yellowflash21

Sorry folks, I will be very short by saying that there is no alternative for it...

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153711264151303

Striptease: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...type=2&theater

[Spook410]

Unless there is something we don't know, a GT350 will easily leave an M2 in the dust on the track.. not just burnouts and drag races. Of course most of us take a more holistic view and track performance is only one consideration.

[MR.]

Originally Posted by Spook410

Unless there is something we don't know, a GT350 will easily leave an M2 in the dust on the track.. not just burnouts and drag races. Of course most of us take a more holistic view and track performance is only one consideration.

In the case of a BMW M2 daily driver definitely.

MR

[sth519]

All the cars named are "alternatives" in so far that they have some attributes in common with the M2. However, in my opinion they are not really direct competitors. I'd even go as far as to say the cars BMW themselves compares the M2 to (A45, RS3) are not really direct competitors to it. They are mainly "the other manufacturers performance cars in that price range", even though they are actually quite different cars and don't have that much in common with the M2. With direct competitors I mean something like Golf vs. Civic, 3-series vs. C-class, Mustang vs. Camaro, A45 vs. RS3, etc.

The M2 tries to fill a certain niche:

• Coupé body style
• Compact size
• Classic front-engine/rwd layout (+ limited slip diff.)
• Manual transmission available
• Everyday usability (reasonably usable back seats and cargo space, etc.)
• Not a "sleeper", but reasonably understated if you want it (– just don't order LBB, I guess)

It's a pretty classic formula, well-liked by many petrolheads, but one that doesn't seem to be very popular right now. Most other cars in that size/price range are now based on FWD platforms.

It is also basically the same niche the M3 coupé, or now the M4, are sitting in, except at a different price point. And around the M4's price point, there are actually quite a few direct competitors, like the C63 coupé, Jaguar F-Type coupé or Lexus RC-F.
The same can't be said for the M2.
Of course: If you don't care about most of the points above, then yes, there are more cars to choose from. But if you want most or all of these things, I don't really see a good alternative in this price bracket (excluding used).

• The Cayman is a 2-seater (and in most variants more expensive).
• The Mustang is actually quite close (and probably one of the best deals right now) but it's a big car in comparison, and also a car that always demands attention (especially here in Europe, where you'll instantly become "that guy who drives the Mustang") in your town – not necessarily what everyone wants. It's also notably more thirsty than the others, which can get quite expensive depending on where you live.
• TT, RS3, Golf R, etc.: Different body styles; similar price range (some even cheaper); probably not slower than the M2. But the M2 is the only RWD car in that list and even if some of the AWD cars can put "up to 100%" of the power to the rear wheels, most are still set up to only use the rear wheels for additional traction when needed. Given the reviews, the updated A45 may be the only one of these kinds of cars that is set up to actually let you have some fun besides "just" going fast from A to B. But of course, that car is an automatic-only, 4-cylinder, 5-door hatchback.

Now I'm not saying that all of this makes the M2 somehow superior. Quite the opposite: The M2 is more of a niche car than the others. For most people, especially those who are looking for a DD, it's probably a worse car than, for example, the AWD hatchbacks are: It's a bit less practical because of the coupé shape, longitudinal engine and lack of rear doors. It's also not the best car for the winter season, has a relatively high base price, etc., etc.
Also, I'd love to see more direct competition for the M2!

[Big Tuna]

Slice the market as finely as you want and no car has any competitor.

The 'competitors' really are what people are cross shopping it with, whether or not it fits into a narrowly defined marketing subset.

In my specific case I'm looking for a fun, quick, small-ish car in the 40-70k range. I'd like to spend less if possible but will go to the high end if I feel its worth it. Don't care how many doors, don't care how many seats. I've got an SUV if i need to haul stuff. Maybe I'm a weird customer.

But say for a ~60k USD fun car, you can get

1) new m2
2) base Cayman/Boxter
3) 2 year old Cayman/Boxster S
4) basic c7
5) year old m3
6) gt350
7) GTI or other hot hatch and save 20k

[sth519]

Originally Posted by Big Tuna

Maybe I'm a weird customer.

No, you're not. You're probably even in the majority: Someone who just wants a fast car at a certain price point.

I'm just saying that the M2 has some properties that are rather unique on the market: It's the only rwd, 4-seater coupé in its size and price class. While that may or may not be important to you, it's still pretty unique.

That's quite different to, for example, cars like the Golf GTI, which have at least half a dozen direct competitors with the exact same body style, exact same layout, similar power, etc.