[Inuyasha]

Originally Posted by DVC

1-way means there's an adjustment that addresses both damper compression and damper rebound together (not a bad option for those not interested in getting into the weeds to optimize their setup).

2-way means separate adjustments for compression and rebound.

There are also 3- and even 4-way adjustable dampers that address high- vs low-speed compression and rebound. This is typically overkill unless you are pretty serious about optimizing your suspension for different tracks.

Spring rates are of course another variable (progressive vs linear, compression weight rating, etc.), but obviously no way to adjust these other than swapping out various springs.

Here's a good quick read on the subject

Ahh thanks for the clear up. I know the terms but didn't understand what the "2-way meant".. thanks for clearing this up.

DA

[swagon]

Originally Posted by DarkAgent

I must be thick, still doesn't make sense to me. Rebound is a damping adjustment.
I'm mainly from the world of motorcycles and we typically deal with rebound/compression/spring rates, maybe high speed and low speed damping (if you have $$$).

Do you have the link to the post that could explain this? I do track days with my bike and i'm thinking about taking it up with cars.

LOL me too. Brainfart. I am sorry for the confusion.

DVC, thanks.

[M3 n X5M]

Originally Posted by AnooooOH

Then you have no idea about suspensions...

My V3 with a custom manhart setup is way more comfortable than stock at lowspeed. And my car sits pretty low.

Wheel Travel is that, wheel travel. And a lowered car forcibly has much less left compared to the stock car.

If you go over a set of large bumps and potholes in a street being repaired a lowered car bottoms out first. Or over most large bumps in an urban dwelling like the East coast, etc...

Cities contain this scenario in most of the U.S. So unless you live in Europe or somewhere with glass roads I beg to differ on your statement. Bottoming out is always happening sooner when you are lowered. Basic stuff. The finest coilover cannot create additional wheel travel after you bottom out.

[neckthrough]

Originally Posted by M3 n X5M

Wheel Travel is that, wheel travel. And a lowered car forcibly has much less left compared to the stock car.

If you go over a set of large bumps and potholes in a street being repaired a lowered car bottoms out first. Or over most large bumps in an urban dwelling like the East coast, etc...

Cities contain this scenario in most of the U.S. So unless you live in Europe or somewhere with glass roads I beg to differ on your statement. Bottoming out is always happening sooner when you are lowered. Basic stuff. The finest coilover cannot create additional wheel travel after you bottom out.

Not exactly. That's where spring rate comes in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooke%27s_law. Yes, Hooke's Law is an abstraction but the general principle still holds - a stiffer spring will compress far less than a softer spring when subjected to the same force. If a suspension system is bottoming out too much, it means the suspension is under-sprung for the conditions it is expected to perform in.

Of course, stiffer springs need to be paired with appropriately tuned shocks, otherwise large impact forces will make their way into the cabin even without bottoming out.

It's certainly true that longer springs allow more flexibility in tuning springs and shocks. A sloppily-tuned system will probably suffice, whereas a lowered system will need to be tuned carefully.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by neckthrough

Not exactly. That's where spring rate comes in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooke%27s_law. Yes, Hooke's Law is an abstraction but the general principle still holds - a stiffer spring will compress far less than a softer spring when subjected to the same force. If a suspension system is bottoming out too much, it means the suspension is under-sprung for the conditions it is expected to perform in.

Of course, stiffer springs need to be paired with appropriately tuned shocks, otherwise large impact forces will make their way into the cabin even without bottoming out.

It's certainly true that longer springs allow more flexibility in tuning springs and shocks. A sloppily-tuned system will probably suffice, whereas a lowered system will need to be tuned carefully.

I think the point is still valid though. Stiffer springs will yield a stiffer ride which was his original point. He doesn't want a stiffer ride. If you lower the car and don't stiffen the suspension, you will bottom out. If you stiffen the suspension, you have a crappy ride. And to the point above, yes a coilover system like the V3 with variable rate springs can help avoid the issues, but that's a compromise in itself. It's ok for a street driven vehicle, but it isn't a "best of both worlds" setup.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by neckthrough

Not exactly. That's where spring rate comes in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooke%27s_law. Yes, Hooke's Law is an abstraction but the general principle still holds - a stiffer spring will compress far less than a softer spring when subjected to the same force. If a suspension system is bottoming out too much, it means the suspension is under-sprung for the conditions it is expected to perform in.

Of course, stiffer springs need to be paired with appropriately tuned shocks, otherwise large impact forces will make their way into the cabin even without bottoming out.

It's certainly true that longer springs allow more flexibility in tuning springs and shocks. A sloppily-tuned system will probably suffice, whereas a lowered system will need to be tuned carefully.

Precisely.

Whether it's well-suited for daily driving all depends on what your idea of what a "comfortable" street setup is. Even coil overs sacrifice travel range when lowering (the M Performance coil overs will only have a 25mm/1in range, so not much to worry about there), but as long as the system is engineered well in terms of spring rates and damping curves, it will not be crashy and harsh like a car with OEM dampers riding on relatively soft lowering springs. And being that these M Performance coil overs are an OEM solution, you can bet that this will be a well-engineered system.

[M3 n X5M]

It is my expectation the OEM coilover replacement parts will be of high quality and very well setup. Somewhere here, we see that instructions for different applications and tracks will be supplied for dampening.

For a novice, or less experienced track racer, a coilover may add stiffness that is way beyond their expectations. And furthermore if they do not track the car, it will not ever be in "both worlds" and just a very expensive alternative to lowering springs.

Cost estimates are about 3-4k usd for the installed coilover system and maybe 800-1000 usd for the installed springs alone.

If I am just lowering for appearance sake, I would get the springs.

Furthermore, I cannot believe anyone who says their lowered vehicle does not bottom out or give a jarring thump more often than the stock setup over large bumps at speeds over 30 mph in the city. It does not make sense.

If I owned an M2 as a second vehicle and could afford the coilovers I would get them. Don't get me wrong. But for a single vehicle in our war-zone worthy Baltimore, no.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by M3 n X5M

It is my expectation the OEM coilover replacement parts will be of high quality and very well setup. Somewhere here, we see that instructions for different applications and tracks will be supplied for dampening.

For a novice, or less experienced track racer, a coilover may add stiffness that is way beyond their expectations. And furthermore if they do not track the car, it will not ever be in "both worlds" and just a very expensive alternative to lowering springs.

Cost estimates are about 3-4k usd for the installed coilover system and maybe 800-1000 usd for the installed springs alone.

If I am just lowering for appearance sake, I would get the springs.

Furthermore, I cannot believe anyone who says their lowered vehicle does not bottom out or give a jarring thump more often than the stock setup over large bumps at speeds over 30 mph in the city. It does not make sense.

If I owned an M2 as a second vehicle and could afford the coilovers I would get them. Don't get me wrong. But for a single vehicle in our war-zone worthy Baltimore, no.

a well made suspension setup will be stiffer AND give you better compliance.

in my experience, my kw clubsports are in every way superior than the stock suspension. the compression and rebound is much stiffer but also smoother. ever go over speed bumps a little faster than you should with the stock suspension? the whole car jars and gets upset. with aftermarket suspension, so long as you get a proper setup (not the cheappies that just care about ride height), the suspension soaks up the speed bump and the rest of the car doesn't explode into frustration. that's also why you can eat up and jump berms at the track and not upset the car.

I also hate that you will be paying bmw tax and still be getting progressive springs and no camber plates. might as well just get a set from kw.

[F30form]

Where do you see that the coils are getting progressive springs?

[tc328]

What M car still need upgraded suspension..fukin sad

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by tc328

What M car still need upgraded suspension..fukin sad

So clueless ...

What M car couldn't use an upgrade option in the suspension department?

That's why Dinan is in business... Let alone an entire aftermarket.

Porsche offers upgraded suspension and exhaust kits for their cars. It's simply RIDICULOUS for BMW NA to not want to make some money in this area as well.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by M3 n X5M

It is my expectation the OEM coilover replacement parts will be of high quality and very well setup. Somewhere here, we see that instructions for different applications and tracks will be supplied for dampening.

For a novice, or less experienced track racer, a coilover may add stiffness that is way beyond their expectations. And furthermore if they do not track the car, it will not ever be in "both worlds" and just a very expensive alternative to lowering springs.

Cost estimates are about 3-4k usd for the installed coilover system and maybe 800-1000 usd for the installed springs alone.

If I am just lowering for appearance sake, I would get the springs.

Furthermore, I cannot believe anyone who says their lowered vehicle does not bottom out or give a jarring thump more often than the stock setup over large bumps at speeds over 30 mph in the city. It does not make sense.

If I owned an M2 as a second vehicle and could afford the coilovers I would get them. Don't get me wrong. But for a single vehicle in our war-zone worthy Baltimore, no.

A high quality aftermarket setup can far exceed the stock setup when designed and installed properly, and can like do this from a number of different right heights.

It can exceed the stock setup in comfort , ride quality, and also in performance. A good adjustable setup can be optimized for both a soft comfortable ride to and from the track and dialed up to " stiff as hell " for driving on the track. I've personally driven a Vorshlag e30 with a triple adjustable setup that did exactly this. The car was phenomenal on trac and with a few clicks produced a ride smoother than a freaking LEXUS LS on the way home.

Of course this won't come cheap and will likely run 4-7k or more for the suspension components.

Of course, many lowered cars handle worse than the stock setup. This can especially happen with a single adjustable setup where the ride may be optimized towards performance ( read : stiffer ) only, and typically the chosen spring rates are the cause for most " crashing " over things. But a high quality shock and spring setup employing Ohlins, Jrz, Moton, Penske, motion control, and perhaps KW V3 setup all should provide a better ride than stock while also being able to perform better than stock on the track.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by F30form

Where do you see that the coils are getting progressive springs?

Look at the spring shape of the adjustable coilover offered. The spring is wider and skinnier aka the rates are different at different points making it progressive vs linear, if my memory serves me correctly without looking at the pics again on the m4 spring available.

Edit: I looked at the pic again and the m4 spring looks like it too.

[My135]

Is adaptive suspension a standard or option on M2? If it is an option, then I will order the M Suspension instead. Please let me know. Thanks.

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by My135

Is adaptive suspension a standard or option on M2? If it is an option, then I will order the M Suspension instead. Please let me know. Thanks.

Neither. It is not available.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by DVC

There are no rules about an adjustable "coil over" suspension being stiffer than a standard fixed height system... It's all about the damper tuning and the spring rate, so it's impossible to know whether it's stiffer than the stock setup in it's softest setting until it's compared directly, or BMW releases some more details.
My bet though is that this will be an excellent system...

Trading her in??

[Pyrat 2]

Any word on whether there will be adjustment for camber?

[DVC]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

Trading her in??

More than likely, yes.... the question is, when. And if I keep the 335i for another year and a half or so (2 track seasons), I am seriously considering getting a set of JRZ RS1 coil overs, and a CG Precision DP very soon.

What about you? I'm sure a baby seat fits in the back without issue... : )