BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Discussions > Answer to why M2 has no M mirrors, how it is with M buttons, etc

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-20-2015, 10:49 AM   #199
Viffermike
Colonel
Viffermike's Avatar
United_States
1753
Rep
2,942
Posts

Drives: '18 black-n-blue 718 Cayman
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Big D

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chambolle View Post
Holy fricking cow. Can someone tell me when 'bespoke mirrors' and carbon fiber and an 'M button' and adaptive suspension and this mode or that mode became essential elements of 'M tradition'? That tradition goes back to the E30 my friends, a car which, incidentally, folks are now ready to pop $50k and way up from there to buy. A classic. Show me the M button, the bespoke mirrors, the backup cameras, adaptive suspension, whatever other buzzers and bells you guys are whining about not getting on the M2 this week. Must not be a real M car, huh? Just a marketing tool, a bean counter's pared down shell, a disappointing puece of crap, just a 325i with flared fenders and a big wing, right?

I drive an E36 M3. Gee, no M button, no carbon fiber, no adaptive suspension. By the way, it was a kick in the ass to drive when I bought it in late 1994 and it remains a kick in the ass to drive today. I've done a few mods of late -- as things wear out, no reason not to do some upgrading. But sports fans, it's still a great car. The Dinan stage 2 suspension is stiff enough to make the OEM cd changer in the trunk skip and gives me a kick in the butt at every blip in the road. Oh no! I can't press a button and make it drive like a Buick around town! Can't be a real M car!

None of these supposed 'essential elements of M tradition' came on the E46 M3 either. Gee, I guess that wasn't a real M car, just a shell. Damn those cheapskates at BMW. Cutting corners to make a buck. Selling garbage like that.

Sorry, I'm not buying this line of horse pucky.

I'm buying an M2. I could give a rat's patootie about the mirrors. If it turns out they bug me, maybe I'll replace 'em when I get around to it five or ten years hence. As for the rest of the buzzers and bells that are supposedly 'missing,' hell, I never wanted them in the first place. Contrary to what appears to be much popular opinion here, buzzers and bells doth not an M car make. You want buzzers and bells, buy a 7 series, or maybe a Lincoln Navigator. You can get all KINDS of toys with one of those.

What I see in the M2 is an M car that is smaller scale, akin to an E46 but possibly faster, with excellent brakes, no doubt excellent steering and suspension and other essentials, like every M car ever made, and adjusted for inflation about what I paid for my '95 new. It looks pretty damned good too... Something BMW has had a hard time accomplishing of late as its cars generally become more and more like land barges at one end of the spectrum, and pot bellied pigs at the other. Maybe it's just me, but I think the new M4 is too damned big and pardon me, a wee tad ugly.

The M2 sounds and looks pretty damned good to me. Perfect, probably not. What is, pray tell? I'm buying one - or trying to at least - and hope to enjoy the heck out of it. If it disappoints, c'est la guerre. I really doubt that it will.
First off, I'm not defending the mirrors/button/seats/whatever by saying what I'm about to say. I'm looking at it from a branding and identification standpoint, because, as your response clearly demonstrates, ///M means different things to different people.

The challenge for M Division and BMW AG is maintaining the meaning of ///M to as many people as possible. IMPO (the "P" stands for "professional" because I'm in advertising and deal in branding daily), BMW is doing a subpar job. Omitting certain design cues that currently represent the ///M brand -- then being slyly defensive about it in interviews, and contradictional in dealer-facing (but easily customer-facing) materials -- hurts the brand to EVERYone: enthusiasts, laypeople, customers looking for a 'badge of exclusivity' (there are many more than you think'), potential new customers. EVERYone.

See, I don't give a rat's ass what the E30 or E36 M3 had or didn't have; it's what defines the brand now relative to the nascent purpose of ///M that matters to its viability and quality in the eyes of most consumers. Models evolve; brands evolve. ///M has evolved since 1979, and since 1986 when the first M3 was sold. it's evolved to have those design and equipment cues that we've been arguing about.

Thing is, now some of those evolutionary items are being deprecated from defining ///M -- and plainly plenty of people care about those items. Why? Because they solidly define what is ///M now to many. But by (theoretically) making ///M more accessible -- keeping costs down by omitting these items from the M2 (and some from the 1M), branding non-M Division models with the ///M logo, etc. -- and not being transparent about why those items are being deprecated isn't evolution: it's devolution. The evolution includes new cues, too -- the polarizing vertical rear reflectors being one -- and BMW is stink-fisting those as well because the transition is not linear, not being communicated well -- and, IMO, not entirely evolutionary because yes: finances have a lot to do with the shift.

It boils down to this: my theory is that BMW wants to bank on the strength of ///M as a brand by using it more to distinguish cars (Note: M-B is attempting this with AMG as well -- and doing a better job). But if that's not done well, it can backfire -- to the point of ruining the brand. Some of what the M2 represents -- from the mirror issue to the lack of a true M motor under the hood -- is the start of that ruination.
__________________
--Life is a journey made more exciting with a fast car.--
--Helmets are for closers.--
<<Current: "Blackened" '18 NBM Porsche 718 Cayman ... Gone (but not forgotten): "Blackened" MG '15 228i M Sport w/aFe filter/scoop, Hertz drivers, P3Cars multigauge, other goodies>>
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 10:51 AM   #200
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7905
Rep
11,785
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
I was just watching the video,that is on your posts regarding the 1M.What a great experience it must have been to go over to Germany and get to preview the 1M and get to drive it before the car was released.How were you chosen by BMW,to be one of the people to do that?

thank you... ! I added that to my SIG file awhile ago and you are the first to comment on it - took nearly a month!

there was a contest online at M power.com http://m-power.com/_open/s/home.jsp?lang=en

I signed up for the closed room portion of the site... when prompted, I wrote a short essay (1000 words ?) about how I am BMW fan. and have been since the 1990s.. I attached a photo.... and 3 weeks later ( I had totally forgotten that I even entered) I got email from a German production firm asking if I wanted to go to Germany! I totally didn't believe it for 36 hours.. then realized I had 3 weeks to get a passport!

I was able to get one expedited and made the trip. I believe I am the only one of the 12 to purchase a 1M. There were 4000 entries and 12 people selected from 7-8 countries.. 3 from the US... 1 Germany.. 1 Italy.. 1 Korea.. 2 Great Britain.. 1 Switzerland.. 1 Spain , 1 France , 1 Belgium...

Of that group... 3-5 of met via us met or found each other online this board... @JasonCSU is still active on these forums and was going to purchase a 1M until the dealer pulled a 5-10K market adjustment about face on him..

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 11-20-2015 at 10:59 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 11:14 AM   #201
Gibson6594
Major
1092
Rep
1,262
Posts

Drives: 2016 SO M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
First off, I'm not defending the mirrors/button/seats/whatever by saying what I'm about to say. I'm looking at it from a branding and identification standpoint, because, as your response clearly demonstrates, ///M means different things to different people.

The challenge for M Division and BMW AG is maintaining the meaning of ///M to as many people as possible. IMPO (the "P" stands for "professional" because I'm in advertising and deal in branding daily), BMW is doing a subpar job. Omitting certain design cues that currently represent the ///M brand -- then being slyly defensive about it in interviews, and contradictional in dealer-facing (but easily customer-facing) materials -- hurts the brand to EVERYone: enthusiasts, laypeople, customers looking for a 'badge of exclusivity' (there are many more than you think'), potential new customers. EVERYone.

See, I don't give a rat's ass what the E30 or E36 M3 had or didn't have; it's what defines the brand now relative to the nascent purpose of ///M that matters to its viability and quality in the eyes of most consumers. Models evolve; brands evolve. ///M has evolved since 1979, and since 1986 when the first M3 was sold. it's evolved to have those design and equipment cues that we've been arguing about.

Thing is, now some of those evolutionary items are being deprecated from defining ///M -- and plainly plenty of people care about those items. Why? Because they solidly define what is ///M now to many. But by (theoretically) making ///M more accessible -- keeping costs down by omitting these items from the M2 (and some from the 1M), branding non-M Division models with the ///M logo, etc. -- and not being transparent about why those items are being deprecated isn't evolution: it's devolution. The evolution includes new cues, too -- the polarizing vertical rear reflectors being one -- and BMW is stink-fisting those as well because the transition is not linear, not being communicated well -- and, IMO, not entirely evolutionary because yes: finances have a lot to do with the shift.

It boils down to this: my theory is that BMW wants to bank on the strength of ///M as a brand by using it more to distinguish cars (Note: M-B is attempting this with AMG as well -- and doing a better job). But if that's not done well, it can backfire -- to the point of ruining the brand. Some of what the M2 represents -- from the mirror issue to the lack of a true M motor under the hood -- is the start of that ruination.
I still don't get this in principle. So the M brand evolves...but at what point do certain elements of the brand become M fixtures? According to you, never, since you don't care about what past models had. So when is the cutoff? What if future M models have variants of the base model, would that then become the M standard, making you accept the M concept?

M giveth and they taketh away, as is their right to do so. It doesn't make the car any more or less M. As long is meets their standards on the road/track, they will give it their stamp of approval. That approval should be all that matters to anyone. It is nobody's place to state what belongs on this or any future M car, except M.

I don't know, I guess I'd rather have this so-called "watered down" M car, than not have it.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 11:21 AM   #202
hyperzulu
Colonel
hyperzulu's Avatar
United_States
701
Rep
2,337
Posts

Drives: 2015 M235i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Of that group... 3-5 of met via us met or found each other online this board... @JasonCSU is still active on these forums and was going to purchase a 1M until the dealer pulled a 5-10K market adjustment about face on him..
Ouch. That's grounds for immediate stabbage to the gut.
__________________
Appreciate 1
      11-20-2015, 11:27 AM   #203
Viffermike
Colonel
Viffermike's Avatar
United_States
1753
Rep
2,942
Posts

Drives: '18 black-n-blue 718 Cayman
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Big D

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibson6594 View Post
I still don't get this in principle. So the M brand evolves...but at what point do certain elements of the brand become M fixtures? According to you, never, since you don't care about what past models had. So when is the cutoff? What if future M models have variants of the base model, would that then become the M standard, making you accept the M concept?

M giveth and they taketh away, as is their right to do so. It doesn't make the car any more or less M. As long is meets their standards on the road/track, they will give it their stamp of approval. That approval should be all that matters to anyone. It is nobody's place to state what belongs on this or any future M car, except M.

I don't know, I guess I'd rather have this so-called "watered down" M car, than not have it.
I don't care what those nascent models had, because ///M has evolved into something beyond that in the eyes of most. Key phrase there is 'in the eyes of most' -- including BMW itself. Simply put, ///M means more than it did then, and to reverse and dilute that trend successfully involves a much more difficult process to keep the brand strong. That process isn't going very well so far.

Sure, it's BMW's right to giveth and taketh away. It's its right to do whatever it wants with ///M. But that right doesn't beget good decision making regarding the brand and what it represents to consumers -- including those focused on an ///M car's original defining purpose: track prowess.

Both you and I know the vast majority of ///M buyers don't even think about operating the car on a track. It's bought for status, defined one way or another. Hell: the original M cars were bought for those reasons. It's that it can, not that it will. That's the very definition of a status buy.
__________________
--Life is a journey made more exciting with a fast car.--
--Helmets are for closers.--
<<Current: "Blackened" '18 NBM Porsche 718 Cayman ... Gone (but not forgotten): "Blackened" MG '15 228i M Sport w/aFe filter/scoop, Hertz drivers, P3Cars multigauge, other goodies>>
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 11:32 AM   #204
Ritz42
Private First Class
United_States
23
Rep
139
Posts

Drives: F22 & R56
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: 86Bro

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
First off, I'm not defending the mirrors/button/seats/whatever by saying what I'm about to say. I'm looking at it from a branding and identification standpoint, because, as your response clearly demonstrates, ///M means different things to different people.

The challenge for M Division and BMW AG is maintaining the meaning of ///M to as many people as possible.
The day that ///M cares more about Marketing, Branding and Identification than driving experience will mark the actual death of BMW ///M.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 11:52 AM   #205
Viffermike
Colonel
Viffermike's Avatar
United_States
1753
Rep
2,942
Posts

Drives: '18 black-n-blue 718 Cayman
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Big D

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz42 View Post
The day that ///M cares more about Marketing, Branding and Identification than driving experience will mark the actual death of BMW ///M.
Then you very well may be seeing the beginning of that death. ///M already defines a "look" separate from heightened performance for BMW, as seen in M Sport models. Plainly, BMW's aim with the 1M and M2 is to make performance-oriented ///M models that are more economically attainable at the expense (pun intended) of what the company itself defines as an actual ///M performance-oriented model. Those are fundamentally financial decisions both ways -- by manufacturer and, potentially, consumer -- that have other costs (again, pun intended).

Where does that leave the ///M brand? Devolved, I feel, and not as representative as it once was.
__________________
--Life is a journey made more exciting with a fast car.--
--Helmets are for closers.--
<<Current: "Blackened" '18 NBM Porsche 718 Cayman ... Gone (but not forgotten): "Blackened" MG '15 228i M Sport w/aFe filter/scoop, Hertz drivers, P3Cars multigauge, other goodies>>
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 11:59 AM   #206
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28912
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chambolle View Post
Holy fricking cow.
Feel free to read posts #1 and #6 of this sister thread:
http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1195248
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 1
      11-20-2015, 12:53 PM   #207
Cope
First Lieutenant
Cope's Avatar
United_States
206
Rep
341
Posts

Drives: 11' VO 1M, 17' LBB M2
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: B-Town

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Additionally, the M2 will have an additional color choice, more standard equipment, and more options available - you know firsthand that those complexities on the production side must be reflected in the cost of the car...
Complexity isn't always better. Objectively speaking there's more options, but the same time you're stuck with idrive no matter what. For some of us, simplicity is so much better, I'm there for the driving experience, not for it to massage my ass (that could be hyperbole).
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 12:56 PM   #208
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7905
Rep
11,785
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
Ouch. That's grounds for immediate stabbage to the gut.
even worse ..not only did he have a full deal in place. with deposit.. he was a previous buyer from the same dealer as well.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 12:58 PM   #209
Ritz42
Private First Class
United_States
23
Rep
139
Posts

Drives: F22 & R56
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: 86Bro

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Then you very well may be seeing the beginning of that death. ///M already defines a "look" separate from heightened performance for BMW, as seen in M Sport models. Plainly, BMW's aim with the 1M and M2 is to make performance-oriented ///M models that are more economically attainable at the expense (pun intended) of what the company itself defines as an actual ///M performance-oriented model. Those are fundamentally financial decisions both ways -- by manufacturer and, potentially, consumer -- that have other costs (again, pun intended).

Where does that leave the ///M brand? Devolved, I feel, and not as representative as it once was.
You my friend have literally no idea what you're talking about. The 1m came from several M engineers tinkering after hours. It is quite possibly the most pure expression of everything that ///M stands for in the last decade. It is fantastic power train married to superb chassis upgrades. No pretense of brand, or marketing. And it gave the world what is one of the best drivers car of all time full stop.

The 1m and the M2 show, if anything, that ///M wants to be build performance cars for people who care more about the driving experience than they care about if their car works as a status symbol.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 01:02 PM   #210
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7905
Rep
11,785
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by technik330 View Post
Tell me how much of a sound business decision it was for ///M to omit the key aesthetic items they did because of ///Money, when their ///Marketing failed to catch it?
As a person who owns a 1M.. and heard the EXACT same complaints 5 years ago... where all the cries on the forum were..

"Why no actual slits in the fenders? " ?
"Why no CF roof".. ?
" why no S motor " ?
" why are the seats same as the 135" ?

And seeing as the 1M sold out and now an M2 is being produced... seems like the verdict on that is ALREADY in..


the success of this car is not going to be based on esthetic items.. but rather.. on it's performance.....

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 11-20-2015 at 01:08 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 01:36 PM   #211
Haslamhazza
Private
72
Rep
98
Posts

Drives: Just got M2
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

I have looked up at M cars from below since I was 20ish with envy. I'm now 45 and for the first time can afford to buy a new m car. I would have loved m mirrors, carbon roof and different seats, but does not stop me being very excited about the M2. Maybe I'm exactly who this car is aimed at. I have an m235i, loved it but have found it bit soft. But I am following a path into M ownership that BMW have laid. Ignorance is bliss. So excited.
Appreciate 1
      11-20-2015, 01:42 PM   #212
Viffermike
Colonel
Viffermike's Avatar
United_States
1753
Rep
2,942
Posts

Drives: '18 black-n-blue 718 Cayman
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Big D

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz42 View Post
You my friend have literally no idea what you're talking about. The 1m came from several M engineers tinkering after hours. It is quite possibly the most pure expression of everything that ///M stands for in the last decade. It is fantastic power train married to superb chassis upgrades. No pretense of brand, or marketing. And it gave the world what is one of the best drivers car of all time full stop.

The 1m and the M2 show, if anything, that ///M wants to be build performance cars for people who care more about the driving experience than they care about if their car works as a status symbol.
No, we just think from two different perspectives. Did I say anything about the 1M not being a great driver's car, with an emphasis on engine and chassis upgrades--the bedrock for all proper M Division products? No, I didn't. It's what was left off of the 1M relative to what made a contemporary M car at the time that began a shift that continues with the M2.
__________________
--Life is a journey made more exciting with a fast car.--
--Helmets are for closers.--
<<Current: "Blackened" '18 NBM Porsche 718 Cayman ... Gone (but not forgotten): "Blackened" MG '15 228i M Sport w/aFe filter/scoop, Hertz drivers, P3Cars multigauge, other goodies>>
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 03:04 PM   #213
Cope
First Lieutenant
Cope's Avatar
United_States
206
Rep
341
Posts

Drives: 11' VO 1M, 17' LBB M2
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: B-Town

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
No, we just think from two different perspectives. Did I say anything about the 1M not being a great driver's car, with an emphasis on engine and chassis upgrades--the bedrock for all proper M Division products? No, I didn't. It's what was left off of the 1M relative to what made a contemporary M car at the time that began a shift that continues with the M2.
I mean what'd the 1M leave off compared to contemporary M cars? The fact that enthusiasts knew there was an S missing in the engine code but that everyone else didn't?

The M2 is not the signal of the ruination of the M brand. Regular folk aren't going to notice the absence of those adorable M4 mirrors, nor will they question why the roof isn't carbon, they wanted the moonroof anyway. "S55? No I can't afford an S class." Enthusiasts like us will understand the driving experience defines an M car and the M2 will most likely deliver in that department like the 1M that preceded it.

I see "progress" as what will ruin M as a brand. The decision to no longer offer a ZMT option, the decision to switch to AWD, the decision to only offer M cars as hybrids.... those signal the ruination of M.
__________________
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 04:08 PM   #214
Viffermike
Colonel
Viffermike's Avatar
United_States
1753
Rep
2,942
Posts

Drives: '18 black-n-blue 718 Cayman
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Big D

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cope View Post
I mean what'd the 1M leave off compared to contemporary M cars? The fact that enthusiasts knew there was an S missing in the engine code but that everyone else didn't?

The M2 is not the signal of the ruination of the M brand. Regular folk aren't going to notice the absence of those adorable M4 mirrors, nor will they question why the roof isn't carbon, they wanted the moonroof anyway. "S55? No I can't afford an S class." Enthusiasts like us will understand the driving experience defines an M car and the M2 will most likely deliver in that department like the 1M that preceded it.

I see "progress" as what will ruin M as a brand. The decision to no longer offer a ZMT option, the decision to switch to AWD, the decision to only offer M cars as hybrids.... those signal the ruination of M.
And I'd agree with you if/when those things happen, in terms of that bedrock ///M definition I mentioned earlier.

You're talking about the philosophy and specific elements that make an M car; I'm talking about the ///M brand, which is based upon, and derives much of its legitimacy from, the M car. Different levels of the same basic issue ...

... and the omission of more of those elements on the M2, as compared to the 1M, is evidence of the 'progress' that could very easily manifest into some of the bigger things you've referenced. Let's be honest: parts farming from Sxx engines is pretty half-assed (and inherently cheaper) as ///M products go, especially considering how long BMW's had to develop the M2.
__________________
--Life is a journey made more exciting with a fast car.--
--Helmets are for closers.--
<<Current: "Blackened" '18 NBM Porsche 718 Cayman ... Gone (but not forgotten): "Blackened" MG '15 228i M Sport w/aFe filter/scoop, Hertz drivers, P3Cars multigauge, other goodies>>
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 04:43 PM   #215
hyperzulu
Colonel
hyperzulu's Avatar
United_States
701
Rep
2,337
Posts

Drives: 2015 M235i
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

This is no downward progression of the M brand. The M2 wasn't going through design phases at the same time the 2 series cars were. I would bet that the M3 and M4 were well on the minds of the designers creating the 3 and 4 series cars though. They had years of development to get it right and they didn't have to worry about fitting into such a rigid price/performance range - the M5 is many thousands of dollars more than the..... oh wait, before the M2, there was NOTHING under the M3/4 to bookend the price/performance gaps, those cars were the bookends. The M2 on the other hand had to create a new space for itself between the M235i and the M3 - from the price/performance scale, that means it could be built to exceed a price point of $44k USD, but it had to be built to be less than $62k USD and underperform a 425hp vehicle.

When the M2 got the nod, it had to be designed after the 2 series started production (so no further input could be given to help guide the M team to a smooth transition from standard 2 series to an M2). So nobody thought, hey guys, we should make sure to use the base of the side mirrors on the 3 series for the 2 series cars... you know, so we can fit the M3 side mirrors onto them when we build the M2. THAT is the kind of development needed to get all these things right. This is what happens otherwise, you are forced to compromise on certain things because it's too expensive to go back and fix the mistakes you could have prevented with proper planning.

As far the engine, how would it be possible to use an S motor for this car and keep it in the right price range? You would need an S motor that underperforms the M3, so using any available S engine is obviously out of the question. You would have to build a new S motor JUST for this low volume vehicle, which means it would have toppled the price out of its target.

A more expensive M2 would have sold just as well as a cheaper one, at such a low volume, but all it would do is likely reward the M loyalists, rather than bring in new M followers. Maybe one day if the M2 becomes a staple of the brand, it will have the same kind of product development time afforded to the M3, rather than handing the M division a car after its churning out of the factory, and saying do what you can within X, Y, Z.
__________________
Appreciate 2
      11-20-2015, 05:34 PM   #216
Spook410
Second Lieutenant
184
Rep
233
Posts

Drives: Infiniti EX35
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

I really wish tradition and philosophy had something to do with modern car specification and design. It doesn't of course and we all know these are corporate decisions. Still, there is such a thing as corporate culture that can defy a simple view of pure capitalism. We saw the dark side with VW diesels. It is possible we will see the positive in this car.

Engineers still have a great impact as individuals when given the freedom to do so. After you get past the grand vision, an inexpensive M car with good performance to bring new buyers to the M line in and polish the brand among millennials, engineers will still make the car the best it can be within the defined constraints. Not because they seek to honor tradition. Not because 'M' means something though I like to believe there is some esprit d' corps. But because they and other technical individuals involved in the development and test want to build something fast and good.

I think this car will be fast and good. Looking at what they added, with the right tuning, it could be great.

Last edited by Spook410; 11-20-2015 at 05:39 PM..
Appreciate 1
      11-20-2015, 06:46 PM   #217
SW19
Colonel
SW19's Avatar
2442
Rep
2,692
Posts

Drives: 2016 Alpine White M2
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Wimbledon

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
thank you... ! I added that to my SIG file awhile ago and you are the first to comment on it - took nearly a month!

there was a contest online at M power.com http://m-power.com/_open/s/home.jsp?lang=en

I signed up for the closed room portion of the site... when prompted, I wrote a short essay (1000 words ?) about how I am BMW fan. and have been since the 1990s.. I attached a photo.... and 3 weeks later ( I had totally forgotten that I even entered) I got email from a German production firm asking if I wanted to go to Germany! I totally didn't believe it for 36 hours.. then realized I had 3 weeks to get a passport!

I was able to get one expedited and made the trip. I believe I am the only one of the 12 to purchase a 1M. There were 4000 entries and 12 people selected from 7-8 countries.. 3 from the US... 1 Germany.. 1 Italy.. 1 Korea.. 2 Great Britain.. 1 Switzerland.. 1 Spain , 1 France , 1 Belgium...

Of that group... 3-5 of met via us met or found each other online this board... @JasonCSU is still active on these forums and was going to purchase a 1M until the dealer pulled a 5-10K market adjustment about face on him..
What a great story,thanks for the info.How far back from the release date of the 1M did you go over to Germany to take part in the event?
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 07:04 PM   #218
M3 Adjuster
Banned
Albania
7905
Rep
11,785
Posts

Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
thank you... ! I added that to my SIG file awhile ago and you are the first to comment on it - took nearly a month!

there was a contest online at M power.com http://m-power.com/_open/s/home.jsp?lang=en

I signed up for the closed room portion of the site... when prompted, I wrote a short essay (1000 words ?) about how I am BMW fan. and have been since the 1990s.. I attached a photo.... and 3 weeks later ( I had totally forgotten that I even entered) I got email from a German production firm asking if I wanted to go to Germany! I totally didn't believe it for 36 hours.. then realized I had 3 weeks to get a passport!

I was able to get one expedited and made the trip. I believe I am the only one of the 12 to purchase a 1M. There were 4000 entries and 12 people selected from 7-8 countries.. 3 from the US... 1 Germany.. 1 Italy.. 1 Korea.. 2 Great Britain.. 1 Switzerland.. 1 Spain , 1 France , 1 Belgium...

Of that group... 3-5 of met via us met or found each other online this board... @JasonCSU is still active on these forums and was going to purchase a 1M until the dealer pulled a 5-10K market adjustment about face on him..
What a great story,thanks for the info.How far back from the release date of the 1M did you go over to Germany to take part in the event?
It was this time of year. IIRC November 17, 2010 was the day we were in Leipzig at the factory?

It was on Thursday exactly one week before thanksgiving. I stayed over til Sunday and it snowed like heck the day after I left on Sunday.

The M2 is complete deja Vu with the timing of almost all the announcements and of course most of the specifics on the vehicle.

However this time instead of teasing one panel at a time, they have been teasing by leaving cars out in public in Germany and in the US.

IIRC the first US allocations came out early January for March or April production. The allocations also came out in different sections of the US at different times. Should be interesting to see if that follows form also.

Even though I had driven the 1M, I wasn't sure I could afford it and I had to wait for pricing to be announced before I got in line. Then I worked my arse off til I could afford it and sold my E30 M3 track car that I had plans to drop an S54 with Alpha N into.

My car was a July allocation that I picked up over Labor Day weekend (9/1/2011)
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2015, 07:50 PM   #219
SW19
Colonel
SW19's Avatar
2442
Rep
2,692
Posts

Drives: 2016 Alpine White M2
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Wimbledon

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
It was this time of year. IIRC November 17, 2010 was the day we were in Leipzig at the factory?

It was on Thursday exactly one week before thanksgiving. I stayed over til Sunday and it snowed like heck the day after I left on Sunday.

The M2 is complete deja Vu with the timing of almost all the announcements and of course most of the specifics on the vehicle.

However this time instead of teasing one panel at a time, they have been teasing by leaving cars out in public in Germany and in the US.

IIRC the first US allocations came out early January for March or April production. The allocations also came out in different sections of the US at different times. Should be interesting to see if that follows form also.

Even though I had driven the 1M, I wasn't sure I could afford it and I had to wait for pricing to be announced before I got in line. Then I worked my arse off til I could afford it and sold my E30 M3 track car that I had plans to drop an S54 with Alpha N into.

My car was a July allocation that I picked up over Labor Day weekend (9/1/2011)
Your hard work definitely paid off and you must have written a very good essay to get chosen for such a great event.I'm surprised that you were the only one who ended up getting the 1M.Everyone is so pumped up for the car in the video,that I would have assumed that they all would of purchased the car.
It would have been great if BMW offered the same event for the M2.
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2015, 10:32 AM   #220
technik330
Captain
289
Rep
666
Posts

Drives: STi
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
As a person who owns a 1M.. and heard the EXACT same complaints 5 years ago... where all the cries on the forum were..

"Why no actual slits in the fenders? " ?
"Why no CF roof".. ?
" why no S motor " ?
" why are the seats same as the 135" ?

And seeing as the 1M sold out and now an M2 is being produced... seems like the verdict on that is ALREADY in..


the success of this car is not going to be based on esthetic items.. but rather.. on it's performance.....
Relax, you're always so uptight - insurance does that though.

My point was really pointing out the lack of attention to the marketing encompassing the M2 on what aesthetics are unique to an ///M - with the majority of the aesthetic missing, it was just kind of entertaining.

I'm more than competent enough to know the M2 is entirely about driving pleasure, but I don't think it's wrong to desire the traditional ///M aesthetic traits either.

The good news is this isn't a 1 year limited run, so at least we'll have a chance to weigh out our decision before it's too late.
__________________
Technik 330 Past Projects:
'05 BMW 330Ci ZHP - Technik's ZHP *Sold*
'07 Subaru STI - *Sold*
'18 Subaru STi Type RA #350
'19 Honda Civic Type R #31191
Appreciate 2
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST