11-20-2015, 10:49 AM | #199 | |
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The challenge for M Division and BMW AG is maintaining the meaning of ///M to as many people as possible. IMPO (the "P" stands for "professional" because I'm in advertising and deal in branding daily), BMW is doing a subpar job. Omitting certain design cues that currently represent the ///M brand -- then being slyly defensive about it in interviews, and contradictional in dealer-facing (but easily customer-facing) materials -- hurts the brand to EVERYone: enthusiasts, laypeople, customers looking for a 'badge of exclusivity' (there are many more than you think'), potential new customers. EVERYone. See, I don't give a rat's ass what the E30 or E36 M3 had or didn't have; it's what defines the brand now relative to the nascent purpose of ///M that matters to its viability and quality in the eyes of most consumers. Models evolve; brands evolve. ///M has evolved since 1979, and since 1986 when the first M3 was sold. it's evolved to have those design and equipment cues that we've been arguing about. Thing is, now some of those evolutionary items are being deprecated from defining ///M -- and plainly plenty of people care about those items. Why? Because they solidly define what is ///M now to many. But by (theoretically) making ///M more accessible -- keeping costs down by omitting these items from the M2 (and some from the 1M), branding non-M Division models with the ///M logo, etc. -- and not being transparent about why those items are being deprecated isn't evolution: it's devolution. The evolution includes new cues, too -- the polarizing vertical rear reflectors being one -- and BMW is stink-fisting those as well because the transition is not linear, not being communicated well -- and, IMO, not entirely evolutionary because yes: finances have a lot to do with the shift. It boils down to this: my theory is that BMW wants to bank on the strength of ///M as a brand by using it more to distinguish cars (Note: M-B is attempting this with AMG as well -- and doing a better job). But if that's not done well, it can backfire -- to the point of ruining the brand. Some of what the M2 represents -- from the mirror issue to the lack of a true M motor under the hood -- is the start of that ruination.
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11-20-2015, 10:51 AM | #200 | |
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thank you... ! I added that to my SIG file awhile ago and you are the first to comment on it - took nearly a month! there was a contest online at M power.com http://m-power.com/_open/s/home.jsp?lang=en I signed up for the closed room portion of the site... when prompted, I wrote a short essay (1000 words ?) about how I am BMW fan. and have been since the 1990s.. I attached a photo.... and 3 weeks later ( I had totally forgotten that I even entered) I got email from a German production firm asking if I wanted to go to Germany! I totally didn't believe it for 36 hours.. then realized I had 3 weeks to get a passport! I was able to get one expedited and made the trip. I believe I am the only one of the 12 to purchase a 1M. There were 4000 entries and 12 people selected from 7-8 countries.. 3 from the US... 1 Germany.. 1 Italy.. 1 Korea.. 2 Great Britain.. 1 Switzerland.. 1 Spain , 1 France , 1 Belgium... Of that group... 3-5 of met via us met or found each other online this board... @JasonCSU is still active on these forums and was going to purchase a 1M until the dealer pulled a 5-10K market adjustment about face on him.. Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 11-20-2015 at 10:59 AM.. |
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11-20-2015, 11:14 AM | #201 | |
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M giveth and they taketh away, as is their right to do so. It doesn't make the car any more or less M. As long is meets their standards on the road/track, they will give it their stamp of approval. That approval should be all that matters to anyone. It is nobody's place to state what belongs on this or any future M car, except M. I don't know, I guess I'd rather have this so-called "watered down" M car, than not have it. |
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11-20-2015, 11:21 AM | #202 |
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Ouch. That's grounds for immediate stabbage to the gut.
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11-20-2015, 11:27 AM | #203 | |
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Sure, it's BMW's right to giveth and taketh away. It's its right to do whatever it wants with ///M. But that right doesn't beget good decision making regarding the brand and what it represents to consumers -- including those focused on an ///M car's original defining purpose: track prowess. Both you and I know the vast majority of ///M buyers don't even think about operating the car on a track. It's bought for status, defined one way or another. Hell: the original M cars were bought for those reasons. It's that it can, not that it will. That's the very definition of a status buy.
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11-20-2015, 11:32 AM | #204 | |
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11-20-2015, 11:52 AM | #205 | |
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Where does that leave the ///M brand? Devolved, I feel, and not as representative as it once was.
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11-20-2015, 11:59 AM | #206 |
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Feel free to read posts #1 and #6 of this sister thread:
http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1195248
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11-20-2015, 12:53 PM | #207 |
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Complexity isn't always better. Objectively speaking there's more options, but the same time you're stuck with idrive no matter what. For some of us, simplicity is so much better, I'm there for the driving experience, not for it to massage my ass (that could be hyperbole).
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11-20-2015, 12:56 PM | #208 |
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11-20-2015, 12:58 PM | #209 | |
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The 1m and the M2 show, if anything, that ///M wants to be build performance cars for people who care more about the driving experience than they care about if their car works as a status symbol. |
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11-20-2015, 01:02 PM | #210 | |
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"Why no actual slits in the fenders? " ? "Why no CF roof".. ? " why no S motor " ? " why are the seats same as the 135" ? And seeing as the 1M sold out and now an M2 is being produced... seems like the verdict on that is ALREADY in.. the success of this car is not going to be based on esthetic items.. but rather.. on it's performance..... Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 11-20-2015 at 01:08 PM.. |
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11-20-2015, 01:36 PM | #211 |
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I have looked up at M cars from below since I was 20ish with envy. I'm now 45 and for the first time can afford to buy a new m car. I would have loved m mirrors, carbon roof and different seats, but does not stop me being very excited about the M2. Maybe I'm exactly who this car is aimed at. I have an m235i, loved it but have found it bit soft. But I am following a path into M ownership that BMW have laid. Ignorance is bliss. So excited.
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11-20-2015, 01:42 PM | #212 | |
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11-20-2015, 03:04 PM | #213 | |
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The M2 is not the signal of the ruination of the M brand. Regular folk aren't going to notice the absence of those adorable M4 mirrors, nor will they question why the roof isn't carbon, they wanted the moonroof anyway. "S55? No I can't afford an S class." Enthusiasts like us will understand the driving experience defines an M car and the M2 will most likely deliver in that department like the 1M that preceded it. I see "progress" as what will ruin M as a brand. The decision to no longer offer a ZMT option, the decision to switch to AWD, the decision to only offer M cars as hybrids.... those signal the ruination of M.
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11-20-2015, 04:08 PM | #214 | |
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You're talking about the philosophy and specific elements that make an M car; I'm talking about the ///M brand, which is based upon, and derives much of its legitimacy from, the M car. Different levels of the same basic issue ... ... and the omission of more of those elements on the M2, as compared to the 1M, is evidence of the 'progress' that could very easily manifest into some of the bigger things you've referenced. Let's be honest: parts farming from Sxx engines is pretty half-assed (and inherently cheaper) as ///M products go, especially considering how long BMW's had to develop the M2.
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11-20-2015, 04:43 PM | #215 |
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This is no downward progression of the M brand. The M2 wasn't going through design phases at the same time the 2 series cars were. I would bet that the M3 and M4 were well on the minds of the designers creating the 3 and 4 series cars though. They had years of development to get it right and they didn't have to worry about fitting into such a rigid price/performance range - the M5 is many thousands of dollars more than the..... oh wait, before the M2, there was NOTHING under the M3/4 to bookend the price/performance gaps, those cars were the bookends. The M2 on the other hand had to create a new space for itself between the M235i and the M3 - from the price/performance scale, that means it could be built to exceed a price point of $44k USD, but it had to be built to be less than $62k USD and underperform a 425hp vehicle.
When the M2 got the nod, it had to be designed after the 2 series started production (so no further input could be given to help guide the M team to a smooth transition from standard 2 series to an M2). So nobody thought, hey guys, we should make sure to use the base of the side mirrors on the 3 series for the 2 series cars... you know, so we can fit the M3 side mirrors onto them when we build the M2. THAT is the kind of development needed to get all these things right. This is what happens otherwise, you are forced to compromise on certain things because it's too expensive to go back and fix the mistakes you could have prevented with proper planning. As far the engine, how would it be possible to use an S motor for this car and keep it in the right price range? You would need an S motor that underperforms the M3, so using any available S engine is obviously out of the question. You would have to build a new S motor JUST for this low volume vehicle, which means it would have toppled the price out of its target. A more expensive M2 would have sold just as well as a cheaper one, at such a low volume, but all it would do is likely reward the M loyalists, rather than bring in new M followers. Maybe one day if the M2 becomes a staple of the brand, it will have the same kind of product development time afforded to the M3, rather than handing the M division a car after its churning out of the factory, and saying do what you can within X, Y, Z.
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11-20-2015, 05:34 PM | #216 |
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I really wish tradition and philosophy had something to do with modern car specification and design. It doesn't of course and we all know these are corporate decisions. Still, there is such a thing as corporate culture that can defy a simple view of pure capitalism. We saw the dark side with VW diesels. It is possible we will see the positive in this car.
Engineers still have a great impact as individuals when given the freedom to do so. After you get past the grand vision, an inexpensive M car with good performance to bring new buyers to the M line in and polish the brand among millennials, engineers will still make the car the best it can be within the defined constraints. Not because they seek to honor tradition. Not because 'M' means something though I like to believe there is some esprit d' corps. But because they and other technical individuals involved in the development and test want to build something fast and good. I think this car will be fast and good. Looking at what they added, with the right tuning, it could be great. Last edited by Spook410; 11-20-2015 at 05:39 PM.. |
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11-20-2015, 06:46 PM | #217 | |
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11-20-2015, 07:04 PM | #218 | ||
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It was on Thursday exactly one week before thanksgiving. I stayed over til Sunday and it snowed like heck the day after I left on Sunday. The M2 is complete deja Vu with the timing of almost all the announcements and of course most of the specifics on the vehicle. However this time instead of teasing one panel at a time, they have been teasing by leaving cars out in public in Germany and in the US. IIRC the first US allocations came out early January for March or April production. The allocations also came out in different sections of the US at different times. Should be interesting to see if that follows form also. Even though I had driven the 1M, I wasn't sure I could afford it and I had to wait for pricing to be announced before I got in line. Then I worked my arse off til I could afford it and sold my E30 M3 track car that I had plans to drop an S54 with Alpha N into. My car was a July allocation that I picked up over Labor Day weekend (9/1/2011) |
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11-20-2015, 07:50 PM | #219 | |
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It would have been great if BMW offered the same event for the M2. |
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11-23-2015, 10:32 AM | #220 | |
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My point was really pointing out the lack of attention to the marketing encompassing the M2 on what aesthetics are unique to an ///M - with the majority of the aesthetic missing, it was just kind of entertaining. I'm more than competent enough to know the M2 is entirely about driving pleasure, but I don't think it's wrong to desire the traditional ///M aesthetic traits either. The good news is this isn't a 1 year limited run, so at least we'll have a chance to weigh out our decision before it's too late.
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