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      07-01-2017, 10:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The S54 engine has no rev hang, it drops like a rock. S54 throttle response still shames most sports cars since it has independent throttle bodies, no turbos, and no crazy emissions stuff. Never driven an E30 but the S54 is way better than the S50 in every way.

Older cars are going to be more raw, period. The only way to get close is a real sports car, which are few and far between these days. Current M cars are not real sports cars, they are sports sedans/coupes.

If OP wants something significantly more raw, try a 987.2 Cayman S.
Agreed on everything as well as the revs dropping fast on S54's. But FYI, the S50 was in the e36 M3. The e30 M3 had an S14 with individual TB's and was pretty free revving as well, but just a 4 banger.

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Originally Posted by eau_rouge View Post
I share the same thoughts in the first place (I own both cars as well).

But I have to say that I really hate driving the M346 slowly. I think due to being so analog and raw, the car is really kind of annoying to drive around town (hint: a village or town in Germany is quite different to the US, maybe thats why). I love driving the M2 slowly as it is so enjoyable and easy at all speeds.
I totally agree. The e46 M3 sucks driving slow. It was one of the reasons I sold my first one. Back then it was my DD and I remember loving to drive it when I was able to wind it out, but as soon as I was stuck in rush hour traffic, or had passengers, and was forced to drive docile, I kind of hated it. It truly is made to be pushed and just comes alive. It does kind of make sense, with the character of a high strung n/a engine.
12 years later, I bought a second e46 M3, but this time around I am only using it for Track days and fun drives.

The reason I am lurking in this thread is because I am contemplating getting an M2 next. My first thought was to replace the e46 M3, just because I get the bug to get something new every few years. However, every time I look at it, I have to admit that I think it is way better looking than the M2. Plus now I'm reading how different these cars are, I am staring to think I should just replace my DD with an M2 and keep the e46 M3.

Might have to get a DCT instead of a manual on the M2 though , to sell the wife on it being a suitable DD, as we switch cars sometimes when I need hers.

Anyway, waiting on more impressions from OP. Keep them coming.
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      07-02-2017, 07:42 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by norMcal View Post
Agreed on everything as well as the revs dropping fast on S54's. But FYI, the S50 was in the e36 M3. The e30 M3 had an S14 with individual TB's and was pretty free revving as well, but just a 4 banger.



I totally agree. The e46 M3 sucks driving slow. It was one of the reasons I sold my first one. Back then it was my DD and I remember loving to drive it when I was able to wind it out, but as soon as I was stuck in rush hour traffic, or had passengers, and was forced to drive docile, I kind of hated it. It truly is made to be pushed and just comes alive. It does kind of make sense, with the character of a high strung n/a engine.
12 years later, I bought a second e46 M3, but this time around I am only using it for Track days and fun drives.

The reason I am lurking in this thread is because I am contemplating getting an M2 next. My first thought was to replace the e46 M3, just because I get the bug to get something new every few years. However, every time I look at it, I have to admit that I think it is way better looking than the M2. Plus now I'm reading how different these cars are, I am staring to think I should just replace my DD with an M2 and keep the e46 M3.

Might have to get a DCT instead of a manual on the M2 though , to sell the wife on it being a suitable DD, as we switch cars sometimes when I need hers.

Anyway, waiting on more impressions from OP. Keep them coming.
Yeah, I knew the S50 was in the E36, just awkward wording on the sentence. Was just making the point that not everything gets worse regarding responsiveness in a newer generation.
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      08-02-2017, 11:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rouxeny View Post
I want to see a pic of the M3 wagon. I briefly drove an E30 M3. That was raw. Even going around the block, it felt like a race car.
My wagon is 100% mechanically (engine/trans/diff/brakes/control arms/bushings/steering rack/sub frames/exhaust/seat/steering wheel) and electronically (cluster/ecu/dsc) converted to an M3, but has stock bodywork.

So it looks like a slightly lowered e46 wagon with larger brakes and BBS wheels...



That said, BMW did build one wide body one, so if you want to see it:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/09/28...uring-is-real/
Where is this one off factory E46 Touring M , at the Welt or BMW museum?
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      08-03-2017, 06:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Where is this one off factory E46 Touring M , at the Welt or BMW museum?
Mine? In the parking lot at my job

The one made by BMW? In their underground warehouse.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/09/28/on...46-m3-touring/











I'd love to do the wide body one day.

... though i'd probably stick with the dual exhaust with spare tire over the quad exhaust.
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      08-03-2017, 07:38 AM   #27
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Very cool wagons - both cars. Do you have the M hood on ur car now or will that only fit with M fenders?
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      08-03-2017, 08:55 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by IB M View Post
Very cool wagons - both cars. Do you have the M hood on ur car now or will that only fit with M fenders?
It needs the fenders and headlights to fit properly.
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      08-23-2017, 01:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Feeling raw goes way beyond those things. The e46 has way more electronic nannies and sound insulation than the e30. The clutch feel is numb in comparison (it has a CDV afterall), the throttle response is not as quick nor direct, and it has way more sound insulation (ie, refined) than the e30. The e46 feels like you're inside a tank/coffin relative to the e30. Just because it's engine make more mechanical noises (or is "cantankerous") doesn't make it "rawer" than the e30. You feel more of the road on the e30 and you have a more direct connected feel to the car (throttle, clutch, steering). IMO, that's what makes the e30 more raw than the e46.

Did I mention rev-hanging? A direct-connected, raw feeling car shouldn't have this just for the sake of emissions.



Agreed.

agreed. I've been in my friend's E30M and I owned E46M. E30M is "rawer" for sure. Being in an E30M feels like you are in a rolling metal barrel with some good damping, super stiff clutch pedal and steering wheel. E46M feels like a... a nice solid sport luxury car. E30M is obviously less powerful but it left me with some crazy memories about what the car is capable of. I miss riding in that car dearly.
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      10-29-2017, 12:23 PM   #30
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The sentiment in this thread that the M2 is docile around town is spot on. The unfortunate side of the car in my opinion is you only get those wows when you drive to score demerit points; which in my case I can't afford anymore. When you floor it and drive it hard it is truly magnificent. I can appreciate the fact that those of you who are older enjoy the drive ability and comfort at low speeds, however, I wish it was a little more on edge myself.
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      01-27-2022, 08:53 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Electronic nannies are a one button, short press, shut off.




I am a long-time BMW owner but my 318is is WAY before computers. I bought a 2017 M2 yesterday and I'm wondering what software you are illustrating here. Thanks! I have a lot to learn.

Geoff
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      01-27-2022, 09:04 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by geoffreydean View Post
I am a long-time BMW owner but my 318is is WAY before computers. I bought a 2017 M2 yesterday and I'm wondering what software you are illustrating here. Thanks! I have a lot to learn.

Geoff
MSS5X binary modification tool.

https://www.ecuworx.co.uk/how-to/a-r...-what-they-do/

318is is the best e30 version, IMO. Nice car!
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      01-27-2022, 03:01 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
MSS5X binary modification tool.

https://www.ecuworx.co.uk/how-to/a-r...-what-they-do/

318is is the best e30 version, IMO. Nice car!
I assume for an M2 / M2C you'll only get this sort of functionality through BM3, EcuTek, or some other flash tune, right?
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      01-27-2022, 03:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I assume for an M2 / M2C you'll only get this sort of functionality through BM3, EcuTek, or some other flash tune, right?
I have no knowledge of M2 tuning.
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      02-03-2022, 03:02 PM   #35
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Thank you so much for the review! Never been in an E46 but I'm an E92 owner with serious affection for the new M2s (regular, comp, CS, I love them all). Tbh they are the only modern BMWs I like. Curious how both vehicles compare to the E92 if you have any experience with them.
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      02-04-2022, 07:16 AM   #36
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Thank you so much for the review! Never been in an E46 but I'm an E92 owner with serious affection for the new M2s (regular, comp, CS, I love them all). Tbh they are the only modern BMWs I like. Curious how both vehicles compare to the E92 if you have any experience with them.
I have an e92 335is, slightly tuned with M3 control arms and diff. I find my M2 better in every way except for the steering. Nothing comes close to the older hydraulic steering feel imo.

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      02-07-2022, 11:55 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by M3Dreaming View Post
Thank you so much for the review! Never been in an E46 but I'm an E92 owner with serious affection for the new M2s (regular, comp, CS, I love them all). Tbh they are the only modern BMWs I like. Curious how both vehicles compare to the E92 if you have any experience with them.
I own both and they're quite different monsters. The E92 M3 feels far more exotic than the M2C thanks to its engine, but the M2C is a much better car out the box. The M2's in general just do everything really well because it's the right size, it can get half decent MPG if driven gently, it has a good amount of tech ect...

I will say this: M2C is about the best M car out of the box and really doesn't need any mods IMO. Personally, I think the E9x M3 needed a few things to suit me (would like a BBK at some point, the M2C has far better brakes). They're both keepers for me, but I'd say if you want a weekend car, I'd pick the M3, if you want to have a 1 car fleet, the M2C is better.

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      02-16-2022, 09:28 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by mWHO View Post
The sentiment in this thread that the M2 is docile around town is spot on. The unfortunate side of the car in my opinion is you only get those wows when you drive to score demerit points; which in my case I can't afford anymore. When you floor it and drive it hard it is truly magnificent. I can appreciate the fact that those of you who are older enjoy the drive ability and comfort at low speeds, however, I wish it was a little more on edge myself.
It is so weird seeing people say this. Having owned an E92 M3, I'd say the M2 is fine. That car was 100% impossible to enjoy outside of an HPDE.

I have driven an E46 M3 and M2 back to back, and owned an E46 M3 that I regret selling. There is no comparison in the overall driving enjoyment. The E46 M3 has that wow factor over 4000rpm and the connectivity is light years better than the M2. By comparison it feels very raw. But then I think about how unreliable mine was, and how I can count on the M2 to give me few issues over a time, and it helps me cope with missing the E46.
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      02-18-2022, 07:58 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
It is so weird seeing people say this. Having owned an E92 M3, I'd say the M2 is fine. That car was 100% impossible to enjoy outside of an HPDE.

I have driven an E46 M3 and M2 back to back, and owned an E46 M3 that I regret selling. There is no comparison in the overall driving enjoyment. The E46 M3 has that wow factor over 4000rpm and the connectivity is light years better than the M2. By comparison it feels very raw. But then I think about how unreliable mine was, and how I can count on the M2 to give me few issues over a time, and it helps me cope with missing the E46.
I absolutely respect your opinion as you've owned all these cars, but I can't say I agree with it (which is completely OK).

IMHO, I don't see how the S54 can have a wow factor at 4k RPM but the S65 doesn't. While admittedly, the truly best part of the S65 is at the top end, that applies to the S54. Mine does have a pretty loud exhaust and you're always doing something regarding of RPM because mine is a 6MT. It's also catless with a tune, and the bump in torque in the midrange was very noticeable to me compared to stock. Apples vs oranges, I get it.

As for the M2C vs E46, I do agree that the old generation cars will feel much more raw than the F87. But what I do appreciate is that the car is compact, has much more torque which gives it a nice playful oversteer-y personality, but still has a smart enough MDM mode to save you from being overly stupid ect...

To me, this gives it easily as much driving enjoyment as any E gen cars I've driven.
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      02-18-2022, 10:17 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I absolutely respect your opinion as you've owned all these cars, but I can't say I agree with it (which is completely OK).

IMHO, I don't see how the S54 can have a wow factor at 4k RPM but the S65 doesn't. While admittedly, the truly best part of the S65 is at the top end, that applies to the S54. Mine does have a pretty loud exhaust and you're always doing something regarding of RPM because mine is a 6MT. It's also catless with a tune, and the bump in torque in the midrange was very noticeable to me compared to stock. Apples vs oranges, I get it.

As for the M2C vs E46, I do agree that the old generation cars will feel much more raw than the F87. But what I do appreciate is that the car is compact, has much more torque which gives it a nice playful oversteer-y personality, but still has a smart enough MDM mode to save you from being overly stupid ect...

To me, this gives it easily as much driving enjoyment as any E gen cars I've driven.
Back when my e46 M3 was more stock (it's making 40-50hp more now), I was at a dyno getting tuned with a friend in his stock e92 M3:



Similar torque, with the e46 being ~250 lbs lighter (+- options), I think it's reasonable that the e46 does feel torquier. Mid range the S54 (admittedly with headers/tune) was making significantly more torque than the stock (plus tune) S65.

My e46 M3 wagon (stock engine/tune with euro headers/cats) feels faster than my e60 M5 below ~5000rpm. My e46 M3 coupe (modded for power and lightness) runs away from my e60 below ~5000rpm.
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      05-07-2022, 11:57 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norMcal View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The S54 engine has no rev hang, it drops like a rock. S54 throttle response still shames most sports cars since it has independent throttle bodies, no turbos, and no crazy emissions stuff. Never driven an E30 but the S54 is way better than the S50 in every way.

Older cars are going to be more raw, period. The only way to get close is a real sports car, which are few and far between these days. Current M cars are not real sports cars, they are sports sedans/coupes.

If OP wants something significantly more raw, try a 987.2 Cayman S.
Agreed on everything as well as the revs dropping fast on S54's. But FYI, the S50 was in the e36 M3. The e30 M3 had an S14 with individual TB's and was pretty free revving as well, but just a 4 banger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eau_rouge View Post
I share the same thoughts in the first place (I own both cars as well).

But I have to say that I really hate driving the M346 slowly. I think due to being so analog and raw, the car is really kind of annoying to drive around town (hint: a village or town in Germany is quite different to the US, maybe thats why). I love driving the M2 slowly as it is so enjoyable and easy at all speeds.
I totally agree. The e46 M3 sucks driving slow. It was one of the reasons I sold my first one. Back then it was my DD and I remember loving to drive it when I was able to wind it out, but as soon as I was stuck in rush hour traffic, or had passengers, and was forced to drive docile, I kind of hated it. It truly is made to be pushed and just comes alive. It does kind of make sense, with the character of a high strung n/a engine.
12 years later, I bought a second e46 M3, but this time around I am only using it for Track days and fun drives.

The reason I am lurking in this thread is because I am contemplating getting an M2 next. My first thought was to replace the e46 M3, just because I get the bug to get something new every few years. However, every time I look at it, I have to admit that I think it is way better looking than the M2. Plus now I'm reading how different these cars are, I am staring to think I should just replace my DD with an M2 and keep the e46 M3.

Might have to get a DCT instead of a manual on the M2 though , to sell the wife on it being a suitable DD, as we switch cars sometimes when I need hers.

Anyway, waiting on more impressions from OP. Keep them coming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by norMcal View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The S54 engine has no rev hang, it drops like a rock. S54 throttle response still shames most sports cars since it has independent throttle bodies, no turbos, and no crazy emissions stuff. Never driven an E30 but the S54 is way better than the S50 in every way.

Older cars are going to be more raw, period. The only way to get close is a real sports car, which are few and far between these days. Current M cars are not real sports cars, they are sports sedans/coupes.

If OP wants something significantly more raw, try a 987.2 Cayman S.
Agreed on everything as well as the revs dropping fast on S54's. But FYI, the S50 was in the e36 M3. The e30 M3 had an S14 with individual TB's and was pretty free revving as well, but just a 4 banger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eau_rouge View Post
I share the same thoughts in the first place (I own both cars as well).

But I have to say that I really hate driving the M346 slowly. I think due to being so analog and raw, the car is really kind of annoying to drive around town (hint: a village or town in Germany is quite different to the US, maybe thats why). I love driving the M2 slowly as it is so enjoyable and easy at all speeds.
I totally agree. The e46 M3 sucks driving slow. It was one of the reasons I sold my first one. Back then it was my DD and I remember loving to drive it when I was able to wind it out, but as soon as I was stuck in rush hour traffic, or had passengers, and was forced to drive docile, I kind of hated it. It truly is made to be pushed and just comes alive. It does kind of make sense, with the character of a high strung n/a engine.
12 years later, I bought a second e46 M3, but this time around I am only using it for Track days and fun drives.

The reason I am lurking in this thread is because I am contemplating getting an M2 next. My first thought was to replace the e46 M3, just because I get the bug to get something new every few years. However, every time I look at it, I have to admit that I think it is way better looking than the M2. Plus now I'm reading how different these cars are, I am staring to think I should just replace my DD with an M2 and keep the e46 M3.

Might have to get a DCT instead of a manual on the M2 though , to sell the wife on it being a suitable DD, as we switch cars sometimes when I need hers.

Anyway, waiting on more impressions from OP. Keep them coming.
I've the M2 and I can tell you buddy. It's so smooth.
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      05-16-2022, 06:31 PM   #42
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I had the E46, then followed up with an E93 and F80. Thanks for this comparison because I'd like to get an M2. Now I'm thinking a manual G80 might be a better option.
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      06-17-2022, 06:13 AM   #43
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Thanks for the comparison! I miss my E46 M3…. If this new M2 is similar to your M2, maybe it's time 20 years later to live nostalgically ….
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Mook20.00
      08-14-2022, 01:25 AM   #44
daxbox
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Drives: 991.1 50th, E46 M3, F87 M2
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Campbell, CA

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Just picked up a 2017 M2 last week... it looks like a compact-SUV next to my e46!
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'14 911 50th Anniversary Edition
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