BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Several PPL Dead At FIU Bridge Collapse

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-16-2018, 03:34 PM   #67
onsafari
New Member
United_States
9
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: 2017 M240i
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Castle Rock, CO

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
It was gone long before they arrived.
And that is a serious issue in my opinion and probably that of those part of the investigation. Why did it leave? Was it directed to leave? Who did that? Did they have the authority to remove a vital part in the upcoming investigation into the accident. No matter what that crane should still be sitting there in the exact spot and in the exact position it was in when the accident happened.

That's construction 101....although it seems a lot of that 101 course was not followed here.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 03:35 PM   #68
onsafari
New Member
United_States
9
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: 2017 M240i
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Castle Rock, CO

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
That is what I said I believe. Side of road. It’s why I posted pic.
Sorry you said off to the side.....to me that's the dirt area. Not sure why you couldn't just agree it was in the right lane of traffic like I was saying.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 03:39 PM   #69
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by onsafari View Post
And that is a serious issue in my opinion and probably that of those part of the investigation. Why did it leave? Was it directed to leave? Who did that? Did they have the authority to remove a vital part in the upcoming investigation into the accident. No matter what that crane should still be sitting there in the exact spot and in the exact position it was in when the accident happened.

That's construction 101....although it seems a lot of that 101 course was not followed here.
If it leaves before LEO who’s to stop them?

CouLd LEO wanted it out of area for rescue? Unknown.

First responders trying to save lives first, not analyze scene.

Posters in thread (and other internet sites) not aware of this crane before my posts. That’s how easy it was to miss the importance.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 03:45 PM   #70
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by onsafari View Post
Sorry you said off to the side.....to me that's the dirt area. Not sure why you couldn't just agree it was in the right lane of traffic like I was saying.
Look at circled area in post picture.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 03:52 PM   #71
GeeRam
Major
GeeRam's Avatar
United Kingdom
195
Rep
1,317
Posts

Drives: X5 40d SE
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Berkshire,UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 420Coupe View Post
There was a whole section of the bridge that wasnt put up and i dont understand why. Literally should have been the first piece to go erect as it is what Distributes and holds the weight of the entire bridge.

See picture attachment below.

Looks to me like it was a construction error and not an engineering error.
I agree, nothing obviously wrong with the design, it's a single tower cable stayed bridge.....

The contractor/builder seems to have not understood that the first thing you build in such a design is the central tower/spine that the cables are hung from, as well as the end supports for the spans, the spans then grow, or installed from the tower outwards. The single tower has not even been built in the photos, so how people thing the cables were being tensioned or anything is beyond me as there is no tower there.
I bet that large span unit was never designed to be a simply supported span under self weight, and I'm astonished any work is being carried out over a live roadway with no installed crash deck or other temporary works safety installation in place
__________________
2017 X5 4.0dSE ~ Atlas Cedar:Ind.Amaro Brown Merino&Piano Blk, Sport Auto, DHP, Comfort seats, Cold weather pack, HK audio, Electric towbar, Sun protection glass.
Appreciate 1
      03-16-2018, 03:55 PM   #72
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
I agree, nothing obviously wrong with the design, it's a single tower cable stayed bridge.....

The contractor/builder seems to have not understood that the first thing you build in such a design is the central tower/spine that the cables are hung from, as well as the end supports for the spans, the spans then grow, or installed from the tower outwards. The single tower has not even been built in the photos, so how people thing the cables were being tensioned or anything is beyond me as there is no tower there.
I bet that large span unit was never designed to be a simply supported span under self weight, and I'm astonished any work is being carried out over a live roadway with no installed crash deck or other temporary works safety installation in place
Tower had not been built.

You are mistaken concrete barrier to stop water erosion as tower.

It was to be poured and built in place in this opening.
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 03:57 PM   #73
MightyMouseTech
Major General
MightyMouseTech's Avatar
4335
Rep
6,196
Posts

Drives: 13 135i 6MT LeMans Blue MSport
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ottawa, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
It appears to be the result of a stress test that involved loosening the steel cables. Why not do this while closing the road to traffic first?
Ya, I just heard that on the CBC news just now.

Miami bridge collapsed as cables were being tightened following 'stress test'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...est/431392002/
Appreciate 1
Dackelone10511.00
      03-16-2018, 04:00 PM   #74
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

When finished (well, this was idea).
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 04:04 PM   #75
YearOneOne
Captain
YearOneOne's Avatar
361
Rep
727
Posts

Drives: 13 135i mineral grey
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (1)

I doubt that crane went anywhere but around a corner. Osha would not have that. It's funny to compare Tony's hot wheels crane to a 500 ton crane such as this. This accident was just pure ignorance. Idk why they would test anything with traffic coming through
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 04:05 PM   #76
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Ya, I just heard that on the CBC news just now.

Miami bridge collapsed as cables were being tightened following 'stress test'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...est/431392002/
Also shows why you cannot believe everything you read by some posters as well as news sites. ENTIRE bridge weighed 950 Tons. The portion that collapsed did not.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 04:08 PM   #77
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YearOneOne View Post
I doubt that crane went anywhere but around a corner. Osha would not have that. It's funny to compare Tony's hot wheels crane to a 500 ton crane such as this. This accident was just pure ignorance. Idk why they would test anything with traffic coming through
Using that rationale, why where 3 lesser rated cranes moved in for rescue attempts?

You think OSHA or NTSB was on scene in 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes?

And if Bridge was that fragile, it would have collapsed when moved into place.

Now if crane had tension on it....and cable suddenly snapped. And video shows break happening right above where crane was attached....
Attached Images
  

Last edited by IK6SPEED; 03-16-2018 at 04:14 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 04:16 PM   #78
GeeRam
Major
GeeRam's Avatar
United Kingdom
195
Rep
1,317
Posts

Drives: X5 40d SE
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Berkshire,UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Tower had not been built.
No shit sherlock......

That what I said.

In a single tower cable stay bridge design, the tower has to be in place BEFORE the deck, as the cables that support the deck are connected to the top of the tower.
__________________
2017 X5 4.0dSE ~ Atlas Cedar:Ind.Amaro Brown Merino&Piano Blk, Sport Auto, DHP, Comfort seats, Cold weather pack, HK audio, Electric towbar, Sun protection glass.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 04:27 PM   #79
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
No shit sherlock......

That what I said.

In a single tower cable stay bridge design, the tower has to be in place BEFORE the deck, as the cables that support the deck are connected to the top of the tower.
Correct, misread speed reading as had been instead of has even. My bad.

However tower DOES NOT have to be in place before deck

That was impossible using this globally accepted construction method.

It is stronger building it into deck section as was being done.

Again, Bridge was not a break if you sneeze piece, as witnessed by support during moving.

If it were, it would have collapsed during move.

Watch video and see where collapse started.

Last edited by IK6SPEED; 03-16-2018 at 04:33 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 07:52 PM   #80
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

BREAKING | FDOT was warned about FIU bridge cracking two days before collapse - but didn't hear voicemail until today

Engineers for the pedestrian bridge at Florida International University warned state officials about cracking two days before Thursday's fatal collapse, but no one at the Florida Department of Transportation heard the voicemail until today, FDOT said Friday evening.

Engineers also had a permit to close the road below the bridge, but never made the request, FDOT said.

"The department was also not made aware by the FIU design build team of any scheduled 'Stress testing' of the bridge following installation and has no knowledge or confirmation from FIU's design build team of "stress testing" occurring since installation," FDOT said in a statement. "Per standard safety procedure, FDOT would issue a permit for partial or full road closure if deemed necessary and requested by the FIU design build team or FIU contracted construction inspector for structural testing."

FDOT also released the transcript of a voice mail left on March 13 by W. Denney Pate, FIGG's lead engineer for the pedestrian bridge project, to an FDOT employee.

The employee, who was out on assignment, didn't hear it until Friday.

Here is the full transcript, as submitted by FDOT.

"Hey Tom, this is Denney Pate with FIGG bridge engineers. Calling to, uh, share with you some information about the FIU pedestrian bridge and some cracking that's been observed on the north end of the span, the pylon end of that span we moved this weekend. Um, so, uh, we've taken a look at it and, uh, obviously some repairs or whatever will have to be done but from a safety perspective we don't see that there's any issue there so we're not concerned about it from that perspective although obviously the cracking is not good and something's going to have to be, ya know, done to repair that. At any rate, I wanted to chat with you about that because I suspect at some point that's gonna get to your desk. So, uh, at any rate, call me back when you can. Thank you. Bye."
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 08:01 PM   #81
Dackelone
European Editor
Dackelone's Avatar
Germany
10511
Rep
22,992
Posts

Drives: N54 e82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
BREAKING | FDOT was warned about FIU bridge cracking two days before collapse - but didn't hear voicemail until today
Man, those guys are toast.


Did you guys see this AvE video? Also kind of interesting. No real facts on what caused the failure... just interesting never the less...

Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 08:32 PM   #82
F30lolz
I can haz cheezburger?
F30lolz's Avatar
6799
Rep
3,677
Posts

Drives: 14 Sahara/08 335xi/22 Maverick
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Miami, FL/Shelbyville, IN

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
This angers me.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorKTM View Post
Also our E90 330 and 325 will soon have some sort of boost. So there is actually more of a chance to get more hp out of a 330 then a 335 in my opinion
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2018, 09:19 PM   #83
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Man, those guys are toast.


Did you guys see this AvE video? Also kind of interesting. No real facts on what caused the failure... just interesting never the less...

I would point out that the video clearly shows it failed right at the crane lift point...the opposite side of where he shows his “evidence” about why it fails and builds from that premise.
Appreciate 1
Dackelone10511.00
      03-17-2018, 04:10 PM   #84
Dackelone
European Editor
Dackelone's Avatar
Germany
10511
Rep
22,992
Posts

Drives: N54 e82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

iTrader: (1)

IK6SPEED



New AvE video...

Appreciate 1
IK6SPEED4481.50
      03-17-2018, 04:36 PM   #85
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
IK6SPEED

New AvE video...
You will notice at 14:45 in, he states he was wrong about where bridge broke...and confirmed it was exactly where I stated above and that he was incorrect - also what I said yesterday morning prior to videos....breaking directly blow crane cable.

Also note in post #32 yesterday morning, I put that picture up (it’s third one in post) showing point of failure immediate after collapse that he zooms in on (and reposted below) - even earlier than his CNN photo with workers on it.

I obviously was not there but eyewitness account from vehicle that had not reached bridge yet described in detail that’s where it all came apart on Thursday afternoon (on Fox News of all places).

As everything starting flying including cables attached to crane, I can see how the thought was cable broke. But then again, as it all came down, perhaps it also snapped crane’s cable as crane was not meant to support 950 tons. That could also explain why crane was not used in rescue and removed from scene.

Regardless, as more facts come out, the point of failure has narrowed to the original area on bridge I was posting about yesterday morning, while others were questioning if crane was there or what I was talking about cables on bridge.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by IK6SPEED; 03-17-2018 at 04:43 PM..
Appreciate 1
Dackelone10511.00
      03-17-2018, 04:51 PM   #86
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Dackelone

I would also make this point. As we now know, Construction was aware of cracking.

I get that the cables were loose and they needed to be tightened.

But as Construction Supervisors were aware of cracking, one would think there would have been long discussions about the safety attempting to compress the cement (as explained in video) with known fact that bridge was cracking.

Perhaps they concluded this would help rigidity.

Whatever, that is the where Investigators should get detailed accounts of people in that meeting before they had time to compare stories.
Appreciate 1
Dackelone10511.00
      03-17-2018, 06:17 PM   #87
Dackelone
European Editor
Dackelone's Avatar
Germany
10511
Rep
22,992
Posts

Drives: N54 e82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Dackelone

I would also make this point. As we now know, Construction was aware of cracking.

I get that the cables were loose and they needed to be tightened.

But as Construction Supervisors were aware of cracking, one would think there would have been long discussions about the safety attempting to compress the cement (as explained in video) with known fact that bridge was cracking.

Perhaps they concluded this would help rigidity.

Whatever, that is the where Investigators should get detailed accounts of people in that meeting before they had time to compare stories.
Yes, I agree.

It boggles the mind how many mistakes were made. AND why they just didn't close the street traffic down, when they KNEW there were stress cracks. In the traffic camera video... you can see the workers on top of the bridge doing "something", maybe tightening those cables - when the bridge collapsed.

I also saw that the University was suppose to have a third party independent from the construction crew/engineers over seeing the build - but the Uni failed to hire any. I'm sure the lawyers will have a field day - many years down the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post

Whatever, that is the where Investigators should get detailed accounts of people in that meeting before they had time to compare stories.
Yep. Before they all lawyer up.


Dackel
Appreciate 1
IK6SPEED4481.50
      03-17-2018, 10:14 PM   #88
IK6SPEED
Banned
United_States
4482
Rep
10,473
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cali

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Yes, I agree.

Before they all lawyer up.


Dackel
This explains some, including why no road closer.

I’m sure the presentation and meeting notes will provide lawyers tens of thousands of billable hours.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 1
Dackelone10511.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST