[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by McPurrs

How does painting a badge and charging $150 or more show creativity?

Go to ur local dealer and try purchase the stock emblem and see how much it costs. And take it to ur home and paint urself, see what u come up with. As Nate mentioned, it is a small industry when u r just considering M2 owners who are spending their time to look into any modification pieces and care about how it looks. iND listens to these small group of ppl (i am referring small as to maybe compare F80/82 community which is obviously way bigger than F87 and u can find all sorts of different manufacturer and distributor as it does have the market). Do ur math. When u r running business u r not just doing charity for ppl and lose money. They set the price reasonable from their standard and ppl who appreciate their work and goods would pay and buy for their beloved metal wife as i am.

Yes, u can always paint it urself and weave CF at home. NP

[McPurrs]

Originally Posted by LSB --> LBB

Supply and demand dude. Lazy people like me are willing to pay, so IND charges accordingly...you don't want to pay, then paint it yourself.

..and then buy the part from IND a week later when you screw it up and it looks like crap.

When I buy parts from IND, I know it will be professionally made (by them or their associated partners), packed and shipped to a location of my choosing. Their customer service is top notch and if you ask nicely, they will usually give you a price break if they can.


Ryan, Mike, Nate...the above statements have nothing to do with me potentially sending you an order for an RPK CF roof in a couple of days...

I totally agree with you. IND did not take steps to protect their products, so people can copy them. End of story. Why does the M valance cost so much? Because there are BMW patents on it.... for protection.

[McPurrs]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

Go to ur local dealer and try purchase the stock emblem and see how much it costs. And take it to ur home and paint urself, see what u come up with. As Nate mentioned, it is a small industry when u r just considering M2 owners who are spending their time to look into any modification pieces and care about how it looks. iND listens to these small group of ppl (i am referring small as to maybe compare F80/82 community which is obviously way bigger than F87 and u can find all sorts of different manufacturer and distributor as it does have the market). Do ur math. When u r running business u r not just doing charity for ppl and lose money. They set the price reasonable from their standard and ppl who appreciate their work and goods would pay and buy for their beloved metal wife as i am.

Yes, u can always paint it urself and weave CF at home. NP

I understand that.... but being able to provide a painting service is not innovation. If you spend 5 months on creating something, plan to sell it, and didn't protect your creation with the patent process, you have nothing to stand on by saying "they copy me". Maybe you copy them.... let's see who is granted the patent based on first submission. Signed:how the world works.

[F87_LCI]

Originally Posted by McPurrs

I understand that.... but being able to provide a painting service is not innovation. If you spend 5 months on creating something, plan to sell it, and didn't protect your creation with the patent process, you have nothing to stand on by saying "they copy me". Maybe you copy them.... let's see who is granted the patent based on first submission. Signed:how the world works.

Pretty sure the explanation that Nate gave was easy to understand. $60K to patent 3 parts that he has already sunk how many hours/$ into R&D, testing, etc. only to sell how many units to a small-ish market?? The break even wouldn't make sense. He has a right to be salty if someone then comes along and copies his design...because the business case to patent every new design doesn't make sense. They are already changing the front bumper of the F87 for 2019 model so all current designs will need to be re-designed, tested, etc. oh and then an amendment to the patent is required. Lawyers are the only ones that make any money in this scenario...$20K to file some paperwork. F'n ridiculous.

But hey...as you say it's a free market and it's your money. If you decide to buy the cheaper Chinese knock-off that's up to you. Just don't bitch about it when you get it and it doesn't quite fit exactly right or it breaks/discolors after a few months, then you call customer service in Shanghai and all of a sudden they don't speak English...except to say "No refund. No exchange."

How the world really works.

[Bt12]

I don’t have strong opinions on this subject, but I will tell you Chinese knockoffs for everything has moved up the quality spectrum. This is a misperception they can’t do it right... that is so yesteryear.

Their copied projects broadly speaking are pretty close to OE these days. For everything.

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by McPurrs

I understand that.... but being able to provide a painting service is not innovation. If you spend 5 months on creating something, plan to sell it, and didn't protect your creation with the patent process, you have nothing to stand on by saying "they copy me". Maybe you copy them.... let's see who is granted the patent based on first submission. Signed:how the world works.

If customers who care about using "OEM parts" and also want quality paint work to be done which is not offered directly from original maker, I will say painting "black gloss paint" "chrome black paint" that meets different customers' demand is considered innovational. It is a new method that BMW have not done to the customer that meets customers who are willing to purchase such product from iND.

I am not trying to be on side and praise this company but work innovation does not have to bring something exotic that brings wow factor to ppl. It is worth to mention that they beyond usual customer service and actually "listens" what ppl like us on this forum wants.

Yes world works and follows the one who signs the official legal document. It is inevitable. But some will still have the faith in their quality work and products that go fit to their beloved cars.

Opinons differ, some does have their tendency to spend less and get poorly promised quality that has not been proven from others. Some are willing to spend 200 dollars or more on products that are proven to have good quality for long period of time.
Comes down to your choice. I chose iND and sending money to Nate for this Sterckenn splitter today.

Moreover, I appreciate ppl at iND who do listen to their customers and try best to fit individual needs and request.

[F87_LCI]

Originally Posted by Bt12

I don’t have strong opinions on this subject, but I will tell you Chinese knockoffs for everything has moved up the quality spectrum. This is a misperception they can’t do it right... that is so yesteryear.

Their copied projects broadly speaking are pretty close to OE these days. For everything.

I can only speak from my experience...the last 5 items that I (or wife) has purchased with origin from China have been sub-par on either general build quality or quality/strength of materials. Further to that, on the occasion that we have bothered to follow up with customer service it is essentially non existent and refunds/returns were near impossible to negotiate. Does this mean I will never buy anything that was made in China - pretty much impossible these days - so no, but what it does mean is that when I am lucky enough to find a company that has the type of quality of product and quality of service that these guys have, then I don't mind paying extra for that. For me personally, I am even taking an extra hit, given that I am in Canada, so I have a 25% FX on top of the USD prices. Still worth it as far as I am concerned. I'm not ripping on people that want to save money and I'm not American so it isn't some sort of "Buy American" patriotism thing, I'm just saying that it's been my experience that you generally get what you pay for.

Guys @ IND - this commentary should not be the impetus for you to raise prices, lol!

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Before one makes judgement on products or distributors they should do diligence and understand more about the history and origin of such products. Understanding that certain companies go further in establishing QC's and more robust marketing but we should be careful throwing stones......

Just stimulating the thought process

[Bt12]

Originally Posted by LSB --> LBB

I can only speak from my experience...the last 5 items that I (or wife) has purchased with origin from China have been sub-par on either general build quality or quality/strength of materials. Further to that, on the occasion that we have bothered to follow up with customer service it is essentially non existent and refunds/returns were near impossible to negotiate. Does this mean I will never buy anything that was made in China - pretty much impossible these days - so no, but what it does mean is that when I am lucky enough to find a company that has the type of quality of product and quality of service that these guys have, then I don't mind paying extra for that. For me personally, I am even taking an extra hit, given that I am in Canada, so I have a 25% FX on top of the USD prices. Still worth it as far as I am concerned. I'm not ripping on people that want to save money and I'm not American so it isn't some sort of "Buy American" patriotism thing, I'm just saying that it's been my experience that you generally get what you pay for.

Guys @ IND - this commentary should not be the impetus for you to raise prices, lol!

I’m not sure what you buying from china... but China has gone up the Tech/quality spectrum pretty aggressively.... vitamins, plastics tech things, EV’s...actually leading the charge Here. But lots of things.


That said I hear you captain Canuck

[Nate@IND]

I just want to see RW come up with one original design that is successful in any market. At the moment every product they offer is an exact copy.

Originally Posted by Bt12

I’m not sure what you buying from china... but China has gone up the Tech/quality spectrum pretty aggressively.... vitamins, plastics tech things, EV’s...actually leading the charge Here. But lots of things.


That said I hear you captain Canuck

I totally agree with you and my problem with RW has nothing to do with the country of manufacture. In the last few years I have seen some carbon parts from China with higher quality than Germany. Even the carbon on the 918 is made by a Chinese manufacture.

[McPurrs]

I just looked on INDs site... for the M2, showing me only IND products.... I see the splitter. That's it that isn't just someone else's work re-painted or covered in cloth. What innovative products am I missing?

[Nate@IND]

Originally Posted by McPurrs

I just looked on INDs site... for the M2, showing me only IND products.... I see the splitter. That's it that isn't just someone else's work re-painted or covered in cloth. What innovative products am I missing?

Parts designed in-house at IND.

https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=RKP-F87-FL

https://ind-distribution.com/product...KP-F87-FL-GP-2

https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=RKP-F87-TS

https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=RKP-F87-ROOF

[Bt12]

Originally Posted by Nate@IND

Parts designed in-house at IND.

https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=RKP-F87-FL

https://ind-distribution.com/product...KP-F87-FL-GP-2

https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=RKP-F87-TS

https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=RKP-F87-ROOF

I’m still waiting for you guys to design something simpler... I assume there’s a lot of us that would be interested in something like a PEARL/lightweight. That fits the car. Probably easier to manuf too since less curves. . Hurry up before I spend all my discretionary cash my wife said I can use

[Yiruna]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

Haha same struggle as I have right now.
But I will most likely stay with Sterkenn's authentic part.

Mine will be lowered with Ohlins R&T and also concerned with damage that can be made easily from road hazard and bumps...

I still have not done the job on R&T with new wheels and tires, but certainly will order the splitter once weather gets better after getting coilover and wheels equipped.

Certainly it is a beautiful piece and only one design available to fit with MP front winglets and love how it goes with them.

Decision Decision... haha

I have my car lowered with R&T to a bit above their minimal settings (or was it max). Anyways, I have the Sterckenn lip installed and have scrapped it plenty of times already (sadly) and it has held up really well. There has been no apparent damage to the outwards facing parts.

Got it over at IND during their Black Friday sale, so it was closer to the RW carbon price. Again, thanks IND!

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by Yiruna

I have my car lowered with R&T to a bit above their minimal settings (or was it max). Anyways, I have the Sterckenn lip installed and have scrapped it plenty of times already (sadly) and it has held up really well. There has been no apparent damage to the outwards facing parts.

Got it over at IND during their Black Friday sale, so it was closer to the RW carbon price. Again, thanks IND!

R&T lowers 10 mm if u did it the way that Ohlins recommends. How low did u go? What was ur spring rates front and rear?? What tire sizes?

[Yiruna]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

R&T lowers 10 mm if u did it the way that Ohlins recommends. How low did u go? What was ur spring rates front and rear?? What tire sizes?

I believe mine is in the ball park around 15-20mms low. My springs rates are different as I swapped them out for a set of R-Spec Swift spring (I need to get back to you what the rates are) . Wheels are still stock, still waiting on cash to get my HRE's. But I will be going with a custom (or maybe a Vorsteiner FF) to go 20x11 rears to handle 295s.

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by Yiruna

I believe mine is in the ball park around 15-20mms low. My springs rates are different as I swapped them out for a set of R-Spec Swift spring (I need to get back to you what the rates are) . Wheels are still stock, still waiting on cash to get my HRE's. But I will be going with a custom (or maybe a Vorsteiner FF) to go 20x11 rears to handle 295s.

If you are going with 295/30/20 travelling diameter will be about more than 10 % of stock rear diameter. If so, you will need to raise your car or do harder spring rate setting to fit the wheel without rubbing issue and also rear will require camber plates (I dont think the stock -1.5ish camber will do with those tire sizes).

Good luck and let me know how it goes.

I am fitting 19'' HRE FF04 with 255/35/19 front and 275/35/19 rear.
Going Ohlins R&T with 90/180 spring rate as recommended with same preload from Ohlins recommendation as well so that will give me about 10 mm drop. Hopefully I dont scrape the beautiful splitter piece.

[Yiruna]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

If you are going with 295/30/20 travelling diameter will be about more than 10 % of stock rear diameter. If so, you will need to raise your car or do harder spring rate setting to fit the wheel without rubbing issue and also rear will require camber plates (I dont think the stock -1.5ish camber will do with those tire sizes).

Good luck and let me know how it goes.

I am fitting 19'' HRE FF04 with 255/35/19 front and 275/35/19 rear.
Going Ohlins R&T with 90/180 spring rate as recommended with same preload from their recommendation amount that will give me about 10 mm drop. Hopefully I dont scrape the beautiful splitter piece.

So far, the only scrapping I did have (I have my R&T set at 5 (which from the MFG guide 2-5 clicks is for track use) clicks all around, probably might change it and the springs are geared towards hard track use) was when I am going down an incline (such as exiting parking lots) and I come back up to ground level for the road. It has happened frequently since road design here is kind of sh*t.

I wouldn't know about the quality of RW but from what abuse the Sterckenn has taken (and the accompanying M Performance winglets) I'd say that it is top tier. Then again, I wouldn't say I'm exactly qualified to speak on CF quality and design, so take from my real-world experience as you will.

[McPurrs]

Originally Posted by Nate@IND

Parts designed in-house at IND.

https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=RKP-F87-FL

https://ind-distribution.com/product...KP-F87-FL-GP-2

https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=RKP-F87-TS

https://ind-distribution.com/product?sku=RKP-F87-ROOF

4/the rest aint bad I guess....

[alscks0414]

Here is Sterckenn front splitter purchased from Nate@IND

Beautiful piece very consistent and quality weave of CF.

Special thanks to Nate and iND team.

[HODLM]

Originally Posted by alscks0414

Here is Sterckenn front splitter purchased from Nate@IND

Beautiful piece very consistent and quality weave of CF.

Special thanks to Nate and iND team.

Pics once installed please!

[alscks0414]

Originally Posted by HODLM

Pics once installed please!

Will do