[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Attuale

Don't think they're going to use the B58 as it's not really an M motor. Remember the N55 in the M2 shares the S55 internals and is not the same N55 as in the M235 etc.

They swapped in S55 internals to beef it up for track use. The B58 has pretty much all of those S55 internal features stock already + air/water IC. I wouldn't be surprised if it was already track capable and they just upped the boost.

[termigni]

AND 10 years ago I read E30 M3 will be re-built and sold to public on CNN.com.

I will believe it when I see it.

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

They swapped in S55 internals to beef it up for track use. The B58 has pretty much all of those S55 internal features stock already + air/water IC. I wouldn't be surprised if it was already track capable and they just upped the boost.

The B58 has S55 pistons and crank? Really? Can you prove this? The engine in the test mule is an S55, absolutely. The shitty noise is a dead giveaway. N55 and B58 sound great in that real BMW straight 6 growl and howl way.

[Artemis]

On a German M2 forum someone who repeatedly confirmed in the past to know from an internal BMW source that there's an M2 sporting the S55 engine in the works, claims to know about two M2 test mules driving around with an S55 engine (source: here).

On the same forum, someone else also recently confirmed to know through another internal BMW M source that there is definitely an M2 Clubsport (M2 CS) in the works featuring the S55 and lightweight materials (carbon fibre, etc.). He specifies that the S55 will be detuned for a slightly lower output than the M3/M4 (source: here).

So what speculation can we make out of this ?

• tuned N55 engine (N55B30T0) for the base M2 - it takes some effort to get the car
• detuned S55 engine for the M2 CS - it takes some luck and extra cash to get the car

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

as far as concerns about being limited ... I'm already in line at 2 dealers. Hmm perhaps I should call a third ...

As the rumor mill starts to turn faster, it looks like, if you want an M2 sporting the S55 engine, never say never about getting lucky. Who never dares, never wins.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Artemis

On a German M2 forum someone who repeatedly confirmed in the past to know from an internal BMW source that there's an M2 sporting the S55 engine in the works, claims to know about two M2 test mules driving around with an S55 engine (source: here).

On the same forum, someone else also recently confirmed to know through another internal BMW M source that there is definitely an M2 Clubsport (M2 CS) in the works featuring the S55 and lightweight materials (carbon fibre, etc.). He specifies that the S55 will be detuned for a slightly lower output than the M3/M4 (source: here).

So what speculation can we make out of this ?

• tuned N55 engine (N55B30T0) for the base M2 - it takes some effort to get the car
• detuned S55 engine for the M2 CS - it takes some luck and extra cash to get the car

As the rumor mill starts to turn faster, it looks like, if you want an M2 sporting the S55 engine, never say never about getting lucky. Who never dares, never wins.

That must be an M2 golden ticket.
That golden ticket is way too tame !

I'm talking CS (L) ! :

Something more like this golden ticket !

[MR.]

The CS will not have a cf roof, just a few bits and bobbs which are carbon... It is definitely not CSL.....

Which leaves us with the tasks of doing what BMW is not going to do, making it a real CSL.

MR

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by Artemis

As the rumor mill starts to turn faster, it looks like, if you want an M2 sporting the S55 engine, never say never about getting lucky. Who never dares, never wins.

Old news but worth noting: BMW M4 GTS Water Injection System to See Implementation on More Cars

[oldmanstyle]

Would the S55 fit the 2-series with a stock hood? I thought the M3/M4 had the power dome to accommodate the intercooler on top, but I could be wrong.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by oldmanstyle

Would the S55 fit the 2-series with a stock hood? I thought the M3/M4 had the power dome to accommodate the intercooler on top, but I could be wrong.

The test mule that sounds as if it sports an S55 engine, spotted lapping the Nürburgring late September 2016, featured the regular M2 hood (no power dome). For now, only BMW M knows what it squeezed under the hood of that puppy. No bodywork changes visible at first glance - so likely only engine tests for the time being. If you look a bit closer under the kidneys: no front mount intercooler à la base M2 visible.

Compare with the sound of these three M2s (2 LBB + 1 BSM) lapping together the Nürburgring in September 2016 (no camo, but "WERKTESTWAGEN" on the back + Munich plates + a number stickered on the side windows [6, 7 & 8] with some sort of ID paper under it at exactly the same spot as the M2 test mules + antenna on the trunk):

[lvb125]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

The B58 has S55 pistons and crank? Really? Can you prove this? The engine in the test mule is an S55, absolutely. The shitty noise is a dead giveaway. N55 and B58 sound great in that real BMW straight 6 growl and howl way.

Absolutely not. The B58 features different bore and stroke to N55/S55, the S55 parts simply wouldn't fit.

[M+M]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

Didn't you get the memo? We're supposed to be crying rage tears because we're about to own an M car that everyone thinks is awesome and acknowledges as the first truly great modern M car, that's about to become a limited model and will apparently be replaced by a model that doesn't sound as good and will be made in greater numbers. How awful... er I mean, I'm very sad and I want more hp so badly that I don't care if the car sounds like ass and the power delivery isn't as good.

haha yea the real thing about more power is - what for? Everyone has different reasons like track or just because there is more it becomes a must have. For me there is only so much power useful on the road and I think the M2 is pretty close to that. ok maybe 400...

For track it really becomes a never ending pursuit. Go to track, improve car, mods, go faster, more mods, and in the end you need a specific car fit for purpose because the compromises become too great if you want to go fast. Then of course the car is not too comfortable for the road. No matter if you then have road and recreation cars.


The only exception to this rule is if you go for a high tech super expensive to buy and expensive to run car like a 911 turbo S.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by M+M

For track it really becomes a never ending pursuit. Go to track, improve car, mods, go faster, more mods, and in the end you need a specific car fit for purpose because the compromises become too great if you want to go fast. Then of course the car is not too comfortable for the road. No matter if you then have road and recreation cars.

So True, and yet so few people realize this.

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by Artemis

The test mule that sounds as if it sports an S55 engine, spotted lapping the Nürburgring late September 2016, featured the regular M2 hood (no power dome). For now, only BMW M knows what it squeezed under the hood of that puppy. No bodywork changes visible at first glance - so likely only engine tests for the time being. If you look a bit closer under the kidneys: no front mount intercooler à la base M2 visible.

Compare with the sound of these three M2s (2 LBB + 1 BSM) lapping together the Nürburgring in September 2016 (no camo, but "WERKTESTWAGEN" on the back + Munich plates + a number stickered on the side windows [6, 7 & 8] with some sort of ID paper under it at exactly the same spot as the M2 test mules + antenna on the trunk):

Listening back to back, I hate the S55 even more. You can go from a quiet flat, dull, farty blare, to a loud flat, dull, farty blare. Ugh. Compare that to the N55s silky growl and high rpm howl, and that whoop on downshift, oh man...

Picking the former over the latter because the former is more powerful is why we can't have nice things.

[Franzino]

Some oil on the fire...
I read something on a German forum and someone was saying the following; The M2 CS is coming this summer and will replace the normal M2... The M2 GTS wil be coming in 2018 as a limited production run... Who know what is true...but a M2 CS and GTS seems not realistic in my opinion... Maybe a M2 wit some kind of competition package (like the M3/M4) but those package are mostly available after the release of a GTS model (or CSL model).

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by Franzino

Some oil on the fire...
I read something on a German forum and someone was saying the following; The M2 CS is coming this summer and will replace the normal M2... The M2 GTS wil be coming in 2018 as a limited production run... Who know what is true...but a M2 CS and GTS seems not realistic in my opinion... Maybe a M2 wit some kind of competition package (like the M3/M4) but those package are mostly available after the release of a GTS model (or CSL model).

Throw all the oil you like, but I doubt that BMW will be building anything on this chassis in 2018. BMW are taking electro/hybrids and driverless cars seriously. A week ago I read that there will be no self-driving M cars. Today I saw a 5 series with Tesla style autopilot. There's no way that doesn't make it into an M5. The current 2 and 1 series chassis cannot support this direction. By 2018 all of BMW's competitors (Audi, MB, etc) will have electric compact cars. Then there's also the problem of crash safety, which is the reason for the whole 'crooked seat' issue. That can't be fixed without reengineering the whole chassis.

Finally, there's the problem of profit. VAG can make something like 20 cars on the one platform, representing an incredible economy of scale. How long do people think BMW are going to keep building a car no one else builds, on a chassis no other vehicle in their range uses, all while ignoring the fact that their FWD platform is outselling the 2 series coupe and convertible by something like 5:1 in Europe at least, while also providing economy of scale and more profit by being used in the X1 and soon to arrive X2.

By 2018, the 2 series will have been in production for 5 years. What I find more concerning is that there aren't any test mules of a replacement going around. This is all pretty obvious if you recognise that BMW is a business, maybe none of the rest of you guys run businesses, but I know what I do with faced with a less-profitable area vs a more profitable area and only X$ to invest. There is simply no long term business case for a RWD compact car, which is why pretty much no one builds them anymore.

[kiysersosae]

What If it's an X drive version they are testing?

[Stu Pedasho]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

By 2018, the 2 series will have been in production for 5 years. What I find more concerning is that there aren't any test mules of a replacement going around. This is all pretty obvious if you recognise that BMW is a business, maybe none of the rest of you guys run businesses, but I know what I do with faced with a less-profitable area vs a more profitable area and only X$ to invest. There is simply no long term business case for a RWD compact car, which is why pretty much no one builds them anymore.

You must be a blast at parties. Negative Nellie!

Just need the factory to keep making plain Jane M2's for 2018MY so I get mine.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

Throw all the oil you like, but I doubt that BMW will be building anything on this chassis in 2018. BMW are taking electro/hybrids and driverless cars seriously. A week ago I read that there will be no self-driving M cars. Today I saw a 5 series with Tesla style autopilot. There's no way that doesn't make it into an M5. The current 2 and 1 series chassis cannot support this direction. By 2018 all of BMW's competitors (Audi, MB, etc) will have electric compact cars. Then there's also the problem of crash safety, which is the reason for the whole 'crooked seat' issue. That can't be fixed without reengineering the whole chassis.

Yes, BMW must and will focus more on electric/hybrid - they got no choice (the i3 and i8 ain't enough). Tesla is changing the market.

Sobering business stories of rise and fall:

• Kodak ("Kodak’s downfall wasn’t about technology")
• Nokia ("Why Nokia lost its market share?")
• Blackberry ("Victim of success: the rise and fall of Blackberry").

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by Stu Pedasho

You must be a blast at parties. Negative Nellie!

Just need the factory to keep making plain Jane M2's for 2018MY so I get mine.

I'm sorry, don't get me wrong, I'm not happy about it!

[Verdi]

A swedish guy claims to be #13 on a waiting list at his dealer to get a M2 GTS. Which is too far back to get one probably.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by Verdi

A swedish guy claims to be #13 on a waiting list at his dealer to get a M2 GTS. Which is too far back to get one probably.

I bet some are still 13 deep on the plain vanilla M2 in some countries.

[SCOTT26]

By 2018 all of BMW's competitors (Audi, MB, etc) will have electric compact cars.

By 2016 we will already have the i3 and in PHEV 225xe Active Tourer and recently the X1xe and soon we have the 125xe Sedan.
By 2018 we will have a new Sporthatch which will also be offered as a PHEV and an all new electric stand alone MINI model joining the forthcoming Countryman E. To say we are doing nothing when VW are pressing ahead with their electric cars is completely absurd especially when their strategy is brought about because of DieselGate which still no one is held to account for.