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      03-08-2018, 11:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by GVN*2FLY View Post
I’m getting GC plates installed this week on stock suspension, intending to go -2.75 camber up front.

Will be running new Apex 18” FL-5s square on 265/35/18 RE-71Rs for track-only days this year. First track event is 3/10-11 and will run another 8-10 days this year.

I drive about 2k miles/year outside of the track on OE PSS tires.

Any thoughts on this camber setting? Too conservative at -2.75? Any thoughts on toe settings up front?

If your not going to Time Trial your M2, and/or compete in National Solo 2 Events then by all means have your plates setup for both street and track.

I've run my 3 cars with plates both "fixed" and had them setup for street and track settings.

Have a solid alignment shop do this. Set the plates up with 2-2.5 neg camber and zero toe for the street. Then mark your plates with an aggressive track setting (don't worry about the toe change) If your changing tires at the track your jacking the car up anyways and pushing your plates into the track setting is easy. (have the plates marked for both on the tops)

The killer for premature wear on 2+ degrees of neg camber is having any toe added for street driving. Toe is a "force multiplier" when combined with Neg camber.

If your lazy, or very competitive then set them and forget them with ZERO TOE. I suggest at least 3.5 degrees of neg camber up front especially if your going to run track tires. Use a internal temp pyrometer to dial in exact camber settings. Rotate your tires every few thousand miles to extend their life as well.

With zero toe your tire life on the street should only be 20-25% less than factory settings according to my history (25yrs) of playing.

The only other down side running 3-4 degrees of neg camber on the street is the front end "hunting" on crowned or uneven surfaced roads. The front tends to dance as the cambered tires fight each other. Its nothing drastic, but for some of you it might be to much.

Last IMHO experience most BMW's LOVE front Neg Camber. The more the merrier.

On my previous M3's 3.5-3.75 up front with around 2.2-2.4 rear was spot on. Running 400-700 lb spring rates.

Of course the M2 could be different. But I doubt it!

As for tires the RE71R's will be your best bet for a drive to the track tire.

I don't believe the BFG Rival 1.5's are available in proper sizes for the M2 yet?

If your going to bring a track tire/rim setup with you then my favorite is the BFG R1. Not the R1'S (they don''t last) The R1's should net you 7-8 HPDE's easily if not more. They are the best balance of fast, good feedback, and decent tire life/heat cycles.

Last camber plates DONT make Noise unless the bearings go. Common misconception.

YMMV
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      03-09-2018, 05:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
If your not going to Time Trial your M2, and/or compete in National Solo 2 Events then by all means have your plates setup for both street and track.

I've run my 3 cars with plates both "fixed" and had them setup for street and track settings.

Have a solid alignment shop do this. Set the plates up with 2-2.5 neg camber and zero toe for the street. Then mark your plates with an aggressive track setting (don't worry about the toe change) If your changing tires at the track your jacking the car up anyways and pushing your plates into the track setting is easy. (have the plates marked for both on the tops)

The killer for premature wear on 2+ degrees of neg camber is having any toe added for street driving. Toe is a "force multiplier" when combined with Neg camber.

If your lazy, or very competitive then set them and forget them with ZERO TOE. I suggest at least 3.5 degrees of neg camber up front especially if your going to run track tires. Use a internal temp pyrometer to dial in exact camber settings. Rotate your tires every few thousand miles to extend their life as well.

With zero toe your tire life on the street should only be 20-25% less than factory settings according to my history (25yrs) of playing.

The only other down side running 3-4 degrees of neg camber on the street is the front end "hunting" on crowned or uneven surfaced roads. The front tends to dance as the cambered tires fight each other. Its nothing drastic, but for some of you it might be to much.

Last IMHO experience most BMW's LOVE front Neg Camber. The more the merrier.

On my previous M3's 3.5-3.75 up front with around 2.2-2.4 rear was spot on. Running 400-700 lb spring rates.

Of course the M2 could be different. But I doubt it!

As for tires the RE71R's will be your best bet for a drive to the track tire.

I don't believe the BFG Rival 1.5's are available in proper sizes for the M2 yet?

If your going to bring a track tire/rim setup with you then my favorite is the BFG R1. Not the R1'S (they don''t last) The R1's should net you 7-8 HPDE's easily if not more. They are the best balance of fast, good feedback, and decent tire life/heat cycles.

Last camber plates DONT make Noise unless the bearings go. Common misconception.

YMMV
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Great advice.

Altho, after 25 track days in my M2, I can say -2.75 front, -2.0 rear is about perfect.

Also, I set and forget for both track & street. Zero toe was hunting around a little too much on the street. 0.04” toe in cured that without noticeable impact on track or wear.

Going forward, I’ll use the settings above for track season, and then dial back the camber for winter.
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      03-09-2018, 04:32 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVN*2FLY View Post
Any thoughts on this camber setting? Too conservative at -2.75? Any thoughts on toe settings up front?
In my experience, 2.75 was not enough for the Michelin SC2s as the front outer edges corded in only a few days on track while the rest of the tire had plenty of meat on it. I'm not sure what your pace is and how the RE71s like camber, so your results may be different.

I did, however, bump in to Will Turner at one of my events and asked him the same question. His answer was that his team runs 4 - 5 degrees of negative camber on their race cars. So, that's a good baseline metric to compare to, especially if you see aggressive wear.
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      03-09-2018, 05:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvas View Post
In my experience, 2.75 was not enough for the Michelin SC2s as the front outer edges corded in only a few days on track while the rest of the tire had plenty of meat on it. I'm not sure what your pace is and how the RE71s like camber, so your results may be different.

I did, however, bump in to Will Turner at one of my events and asked him the same question. His answer was that his team runs 4 - 5 degrees of negative camber on their race cars. So, that's a good baseline metric to compare to, especially if you see aggressive wear.
Guess it depends on driver, car setup, and tires. I’m running some pretty fast times on WGI and Summit Main and found even -2.9F and -2.2R too extreme. It really upset the balance of the car and made it oversteer a lot. -2.7 and -2.0 was faster and more stable on my car.
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      03-09-2018, 09:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvas View Post
In my experience, 2.75 was not enough for the Michelin SC2s as the front outer edges corded in only a few days on track while the rest of the tire had plenty of meat on it. I'm not sure what your pace is and how the RE71s like camber, so your results may be different.

I did, however, bump in to Will Turner at one of my events and asked him the same question. His answer was that his team runs 4 - 5 degrees of negative camber on their race cars. So, that's a good baseline metric to compare to, especially if you see aggressive wear.
I live in the same town as Will Turner and he does indeed run 4-5 degrees on the race cars. Lots of things on the race cars we do not have on our street cars. True slicks, solid race bushings & motor mounts, lots of downforce, and the list goes on...If your running 200 wear tires a little less front camber might be optimum, but on either DOT Race tires like the Hoosiers, BFG's, etc...your going to need much more...
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      06-09-2018, 09:13 AM   #28
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I have a seemingly orthogonal question about camber plates, but didn’t want to start a whole new post. Does anyone know if there is a difference in the stacked height of GC or Vorschlag camber plates and the stock strut mount? Wondering if the ride height will change on stock suspension. TIA.
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      07-30-2019, 01:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
I have a seemingly orthogonal question about camber plates, but didn’t want to start a whole new post. Does anyone know if there is a difference in the stacked height of GC or Vorschlag camber plates and the stock strut mount? Wondering if the ride height will change on stock suspension. TIA.
Vorshlag claims (on their web site) that "we will never make a camber plate that adds ride height to the OEM spring/strut combo".

Here's the page: https://vorshlag-store.com/collectio...nt=48016609811

I emailed Ground Control about ride height with the stock setup and they said "The F87 plates are very close to stock height, if anything, they're a MM or 2 below stock."

So I wouldn't worry about excessive ride height with either brand.
Will probably be going with GC next year before HPDE season.
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