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      04-18-2018, 05:32 PM   #23
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thanks for the sound clip
certainly it sounds better, but still it is hard to judge from a video clip compared to real life.
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      04-18-2018, 05:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benef1cient View Post
Artemis I think that this carbon fiber friction lining was also mentioned when M2 was originally released. It's on every BMW M2 landing site describing the 6MT:
"Designed to be both light and compact, the M 6-speed manual transmission is synonymous with intelligent lightweight construction. Inside the transmission, the new carbon fibre friction lining in the baulk rings provides more comfortable gear shifts, and a dry sump lubrication system ensures a more efficient supply of oil."
So nothing changed.
I catch your drift, but if they report that it's "new", then we may assume that it has been optimized (rather than merely the existing one). Or was this copy/paste from the 2015 M2 materials ?

Anyways, if the manual gearbox mechanics are exactly the same and journalists would claim that 'the rubbery feel' has been remedied, BMW will smile. Like the waiter bringing wine, people complain without reason, the waiter takes away that bottle but brings it back after a few moments and people confirm that it's OK now.

Tag, this manual gearbox question could be added to your 'Questions for Beijing' thread (see here): same or optimized ?

For your convenience I include an excerpt from the M2 Technical Training, indeed also mentioning a "new type of carbon fibre friction lining at the synchronisation units":

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Name:  M2_6MT_02.png
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      04-18-2018, 05:36 PM   #25
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No, they just built a car out of the parts bin, with an emphasis on tweaking rather than in-depth engineering. It seems like every edition of the M2 is just a placeholder for the next one, until we finally get to an all-new architecture in 2020.
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      04-18-2018, 05:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
What about upsetting the balance? I wouldn't want to create unnecessary understeer.

Also, i didn't specifically mention this but i really like the classic design cues of the 1m (minus the headlights) and so I really like the look of the m2 in it's stock form with the chrome grill surrounds, side gills and exhaust tips. Even the look of the m2 comp seems to be progressing in the other direction.
This I agree 100%. Maybe it has to grow on me more but M2s styling struck me from the beginning as aggressive but classic at the same time. M2C is like a millennial version of the original M2, a bit over-styled and trying to be different where it doesn't need to be.
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      04-18-2018, 05:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Have you heard the M2c sound clip? I think they improved the S55 sound 10 fold.

https://www.bmw.de/de/neufahrzeuge/m...nen-blick.html
This is really close to how my ZCP F80 sounds - if that's really the case in person, then I am going to be fine on the sound side.
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      04-18-2018, 05:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
This is really close to how my ZCP F80 sounds - if that's really the case in person, then I am going to be fine on the sound side.
Agreed. I heard nothing in that clip I didn't like. Sounds deeper than the N55. Everyone holds the N55 on a pedal-stool and as much as I love N55 - it's still a turbo.
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      04-18-2018, 05:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post

I am beginning to wonder if the M2 ZL9/Performance edition (150 made- manual seats ) is the best of them all.
Not that it matters to you, but based off reading your posts since I've joined this forum, that's the car that would seem to fit more of what you want. I actually thought the M2C would be more closer to that model. I'm not a hardcore track guy, but I always liked the idea of them putting coil-overs on the car from the factory. That alone, made me like the performance edition, though I know I wouldn't utilize it the way some would (you included).
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      04-18-2018, 05:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
What about upsetting the balance? I wouldn't want to create unnecessary understeer.

Also, i didn't specifically mention this but i really like the classic design cues of the 1m (minus the headlights) and so I really like the look of the m2 in it's stock form with the chrome grill surrounds, side gills and exhaust tips. Even the look of the m2 comp seems to be progressing in the other direction.
Yes, it is always easier to shed weight in the rear. I'm pretty sure BMW artificially makes some things in the rear heavier to achieve that 50/50 weight distribution. So in both cases where I got rid of extra weight, the majority came from the rear. I honestly could not tell that it upset the balance. It just isn't enough to throw it off, at least not at our skill level.
One thing that track guys typically do anyway, is go with square tire set up, for rotation purposes. that will more than compensate for any under steer.
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      04-18-2018, 05:53 PM   #31
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What is The M2 Competition? But a concept born out of necessity.
Necessary for its requirement and interest for progressive performance but also necessary for survival.
It's Survival in regards to accommodating EU legislation meant that there had to be a more emphatic upgrade to the car but not lose focus of its enthusiast base.
To some it maybe less or more the sum of its parts. But it's a sign that people are listening especially when an enthusiast segment is declining in terms of percentage against overall sales. If the M2 was not successful we would not see such extensive transplant surgery to create the Competition.
The success of the M2 granted its progression and should M2 Competition perform as well then we move to the next stage. But only you can make it happen.
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      04-18-2018, 06:02 PM   #32
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Also peak torque starts later in the curve compared to m4.

The m2c looks like a sweet sweet car but given the choice I'll take f82 because: peak torque at 1850 - 5500 rpm, adaptive suspension, and overall esthetics. Personally I think the m4 looks better but both are beautiful and will create multiple look backs.
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      04-18-2018, 06:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I catch your drift, but if they report that it's "new", then we may assume that it has been optimized (rather than merely the existing one). Or was this copy/paste from the 2015 M2 materials ?

Anyways, if the manual gearbox mechanics are exactly the same and journalists would claim that 'the rubbery feel' has been remedied, BMW will smile. Like the waiter bringing wine, people complain without reason, the waiter takes away that bottle but brings it back after a few moments and people confirm that it's OK now.

Tag, this manual gearbox question could be added to your 'Questions for Beijing' thread (see here): same or optimized ?

For your convenience I include an excerpt from the M2 Technical Training, indeed also mentioning a "new type of carbon fibre friction lining at the synchronisation units":

Attachment 1808600
Attachment 1808601
Added.
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      04-18-2018, 06:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
I'm interested in the New carbon-fiber friction lining for the manual transmission as well as the new LSD and new steering feel and the suspension bits taken from the m3/m4 zcp.
The rubbery feel of the M2 MT was rubbish IMO, as Artemis touched on. And as Benef1cient said and Artemis confirmed, "some" (the same?) carbon fiber lining is already in the M2. Furthermore, I don't think I have seen anything about a new LSD. The stability control software is updated, however.
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      04-18-2018, 06:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
what do you mean by progress in the wrong direction?

Have you driven m4 and either 240i or m2?
So i drove the 135is but i haven't driven the 1m. I took what everyone was saying about the 1m and fit my own idea of how it drives according to my experience with the 135is. I own a 2017 m240i coupe rear wheel drive mt and i have driven an m2 and know several people that own the m2. I haven't driven an m4 zcp but i know what the longer wheelbase will feel like.

I didn't mean wrong direction in a negative tone regarding progress. I meant wrong direction from what I want which is a smaller flickable car. I view, the progress from the 2 door m3 to what the m4 is now as the wrong direction from what I personally am looking for. Maybe my title wasn't a very good choice of words.
ok thanks for clarification. the m4 is a bigger car. It is completely different feel when you are just sitting in it. It is like 5 series coupe. The steering has no feel. It is not as dynamic as 2 series. The turn in is not crisp, my opinion only. The engine is a monster though. I still love old hydraulic steering and am waiting for bmw to clean up their elec unit mess. Maybe this m2c will be better. I don't think m3/4 are for enthusiasts. They are bloated and numb. The 1m is a fun car, or a handful, but not worth the current market price.

On the other hand this will be most likely the best bmw for drivers in the F generation. It has good chassis, true twin turbo engine that can be tuned and it seems like excellent brakes and then all other upgrades. The styling is what it is but if they put the feel back in it enthusiasts will be ecstatic. The only concern is the weight but it may be able to hide it. I wish they'd offer manual seats.

I can't wait to read reviews. So far Chevy, Ford and Porsche are killing it and enthusiasts are leaving bmw. I am looking at P cars, new and used, more often than 5 years ago. Maybe somebody cares to change that. We shall see ...
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      04-18-2018, 11:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post

I would greatly appreciate any insight from people who extensively drove the 1m and the m2 and the m4. I know some of you guys can read between the lines of all these specs on paper. There's no doubt that the m2 comp is the upgraded car but if it has become too close to the m4 then i'd rather just get a m4 zcp because those too can be found with a discount.

P.S. I don't care what I can sell the car for later but i do care about what i'll be paying for the car now.
To me, the biggest selling point for M2C is the extra power.
The styling doesn't attract me (I don't even care for the LCI changes inside and out), certainly not the sound.
What intrigues me is updates to the handling and power.

But we can't know that verdict until it's tested, and even by then it's one reviewer's word against another.
Who knows how you'll like it when you do get to drive it for the first time.

What I do know for sure is this.

Drove the M4 numerous times on/off track and it's always been a handful with S55 characteristics.
Abrupt power delivery, hard to put the power down and tail happy.

The current M2 however, is so well balanced in it's power/weight/chassis.
It's so easy to rotate and steers very neutral on the track.
The power is just right, not too much not too little for the chassis.
It doesn't try to kill you but it knows you want to go around corners very fast.
It's not meant to be a power monster, but it does what it was intended to do so very well.

So ask yourself, are these characteristics what you're looking for in a car?
Or you'll see yourself immediately getting the itch to tune it and up the power?
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      04-19-2018, 12:04 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I catch your drift, but if they report that it's "new", then we may assume that it has been optimized (rather than merely the existing one). Or was this copy/paste from the 2015 M2 materials ?
It wouldn't be the first time that they were caught with copying and pasting the wrong info. On the other hand, it wouldn't be the first time that they said the original M2 had something but ended up not having it. Anyone take apart their m2 shifter and see carbon fiber?
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      04-19-2018, 12:13 AM   #38
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In the right direction... it has a proper M engine now.
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      04-19-2018, 12:19 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPower_FS View Post
To me, the biggest selling point for M2C is the extra power.
The styling doesn't attract me (I don't even care for the LCI changes inside and out), certainly not the sound.
What intrigues me is updates to the handling and power.

But we can't know that verdict until it's tested, and even by then it's one reviewer's word against another.
Who knows how you'll like it when you do get to drive it for the first time.

What I do know for sure is this.

Drove the M4 numerous times on/off track and it's always been a handful with S55 characteristics.
Abrupt power delivery, hard to put the power down and tail happy.

The current M2 however, is so well balanced in it's power/weight/chassis.
It's so easy to rotate and steers very neutral on the track.
The power is just right, not too much not too little for the chassis.
It doesn't try to kill you but it knows you want to go around corners very fast.
It's not meant to be a power monster, but it does what it was intended to do so very well.

So ask yourself, are these characteristics what you're looking for in a car?
Or you'll see yourself immediately getting the itch to tune it and up the power?
On the m2c:

I like the engine and cooling system, the bigger brakes, the red start button, and the m colors on the seat belt.
I like the shape of the seats but i don't love the color in the perforations.
I dislike the front end (grill and bumper and the three slots in the middle) and i really dislike that huge muffler hanging off the back. I also dislike that unused button but maybe I can retro something onto that like turning off the rear parking sensors. I can live with the sound.

I don't need to have too much power on the twisties but i wouldn't mind having some pull on the straights. The kind of pull that makes it so your eyes can't focus well.
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      04-19-2018, 12:27 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
In the right direction... it has a proper M engine now.
But it still doesn't have a proper carbon roof!

Kidding aside, I like the fact that it's getting an s designated engine. When I think of 'm car', I think the m2c is a better 'm car'. But when i think of choosing it over the current m2, i get the feeling that i'm giving up on my real dream.
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      04-19-2018, 01:45 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
In the right direction... it has a proper M engine now.
But it still doesn't have a proper carbon roof!

Kidding aside, I like the fact that it's getting an s designated engine. When I think of 'm car', I think the m2c is a better 'm car'. But when i think of choosing it over the current m2, i get the feeling that i'm giving up on my real dream.
Your dreams will come true as soon as you get your "old" new M2, understanding why this car was made for and why the new M2C comes with a huge challenge to over pass it... good fun and keep us posted
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      04-19-2018, 08:23 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPower_FS View Post
To me, the biggest selling point for M2C is the extra power.
The styling doesn't attract me (I don't even care for the LCI changes inside and out), certainly not the sound.
What intrigues me is updates to the handling and power.

But we can't know that verdict until it's tested, and even by then it's one reviewer's word against another.
Who knows how you'll like it when you do get to drive it for the first time.

What I do know for sure is this.

Drove the M4 numerous times on/off track and it's always been a handful with S55 characteristics.
Abrupt power delivery, hard to put the power down and tail happy.

The current M2 however, is so well balanced in it's power/weight/chassis.
It's so easy to rotate and steers very neutral on the track.
The power is just right, not too much not too little for the chassis.
It doesn't try to kill you but it knows you want to go around corners very fast.
It's not meant to be a power monster, but it does what it was intended to do so very well.

So ask yourself, are these characteristics what you're looking for in a car?
Or you'll see yourself immediately getting the itch to tune it and up the power?

You make some excellent points.

Just on paper, I don't think going from 370 to 400 hp sounds like a bad thing. However, when considering that abrupt power delivery the S55 has taken some critic for, then maybe one could worry about it. My guess is that BMW has improved on some of those things. For one the power is lower than in the M3/M4, and I also think some of that snap over steer th M3/m4 suffered from, isn't all from engine related, but from the chassis. They didn't hit a home run with the M3 chassis from what I've read, watched and heard, at least not at first. I believe the M3 Competition has gotten much better reviews in that regard, and that should bode well for the M2 competitions. It goes to show you that they continually improve on these cars. So if they can take the M3 from so so to good. Then they surely can take the M2 from good to excellent. I'm going to go out on a limb and say they made the car better all around.
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      04-19-2018, 09:53 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPower_FS View Post
...

Drove the M4 numerous times on/off track and it's always been a handful with S55 characteristics.
Abrupt power delivery, hard to put the power down and tail happy.

The current M2 however, is so well balanced in it's power/weight/chassis.
It's so easy to rotate and steers very neutral on the track.
The power is just right, not too much not too little for the chassis.
It doesn't try to kill you but it knows you want to go around corners very fast.
It's not meant to be a power monster, but it does what it was intended to do so very well.

So ask yourself, are these characteristics what you're looking for in a car?
Or you'll see yourself immediately getting the itch to tune it and up the power?
What use is power if you can't use it? BMW never used to be about straight line power, it's about balance, like poetry in motion. the HP wars are killing great cars.
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      04-19-2018, 10:00 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict View Post
On the m2c:

I like the engine and cooling system, the bigger brakes, the red start button, and the m colors on the seat belt.
I like the shape of the seats but i don't love the color in the perforations.
I dislike the front end (grill and bumper and the three slots in the middle) and i really dislike that huge muffler hanging off the back. I also dislike that unused button but maybe I can retro something onto that like turning off the rear parking sensors. I can live with the sound.

I don't need to have too much power on the twisties but i wouldn't mind having some pull on the straights. The kind of pull that makes it so your eyes can't focus well.
You guys are killing me with the unused button non-sense. Have you sat in a modern day Porsche?! It's where unused buttons go to die.
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