[Dblaz]

Originally Posted by doug_999

and if you can find a car company that doesn't practice this, then you should buy their cars.

That's the exact point I was going to make. Every company updates cars, and even when they don't update the car wholesale, they do mid-cycle refreshes. It's an auto industry thing, not a BMW thing.

You just don't like it. Which I get because these are expensive things. But it's just the way it goes.

So buy used cars. At least you know exactly what happened at time X with model Y, and you won't feel taken advantage of.

[bm4w]

Originally Posted by m34m

Three iterations of the M2 in four model years is a bit much isn't it? Couldn't they just get it right out of the box? No? You don't agree? I detest bias. Thankfully I own four BMWs and haven't been infected by it like most of you.

You hit right on the head here. Not only were the iterations significant each time, but the one that should've been the "LCI" ended up being a complete re-haul of the car inside and out, and that too only for a percent hike in price.

I assure you a majority of luxury and performance car owners would not find that acceptable.

Heck even the 2015 M4 and M3's don't feel as outdated compared to the current models, besides headlights and tailights.

Whereas, a 2016-2017 M2 would feel severely outdated when compared next to the M2 comp, when you factor in that they are comparable in cost (as of now TBD).

[bm4w]

Originally Posted by philisme

The M2 came out in 2016, I received mine in March 2017 (after waiting for 10 months), then the LCI came in 2017 and finally the Competition in 2018. I'm bitter at BMW... Will they come every year with a new model ?
Usually, when you buy a new model, it's stays up to date for at least 3 years.

That should be the case........unless you're a M2 owner. I can't fathom how they are fervently defending this.

[eeyang92]

When the M2C was first announced, I considered calling my dealership and getting my name on a waitlist. But then I thought about it more and my M2 LCI is already "perfect" for me - on the track it is extremely well balanced and gives me a lot of confidence going around corners and it is more than capable on the street. On the track, I would regularly catch up to M3/M4s every corner before they pulled away on longer straights, just to catch them again on the next corner. I think this is the only situation that made me consider getting the M2C.

But being honest with myself, my driving skills probably aren't that good and while I would appreciate the 60-120 mph time being 1 second faster, my lap times would probably only increase marginally (and only on tracks with long straightaways).

Since this was my first new car purchase, I'm now no longer "in a rush" to have the latest - I can be more patient since I already have a car that is extremely capable. I'm thinking I'll probably wait for next gen S58 M2/M3 C or CS, as I still want to be able to dd the car (CSL being too hardcore for me).

[m34m]

Originally Posted by doug_999

As pointed out in another thread, if you want a car that stays the same for four years, Lexus and Toyota will gladly take your money. Oh and it will be much more reliable.

and I think the reviews for the current gen M3 have been superior to the previous gen - but we can agree to disagree on that. I will agree that when you eventually get up to 8,400 RPM on your car the engine does sound amazing - and I prefer the steering as well. But off the record, I'm so happy I picked up a 1M vs. the M3 I was looking at back in 2012 - and that's primarily because of the torque - but I digress.

And yes, BMWs have a history of fatal flaws in their engines - as do Minis - and anyone with a history of buying BMWs like you should be well aware of that (PS Porsches have them too)

Finally, let's remember... BMW is a company that is in the business to make money - and convincing a driver that they bought a car that won't change for 4 years (and thus encouraging them to hold on it it) is not good for business. Tempting them with the next great thing however does have this magical ability to convince people to part with their money.

With respect to the M3 I agree let's disagree. However I'd say the vast majority of enthusiasts look fondly upon the E90/2 M3 generations and much less so the current. With respect to 1M it's a brilliant car and that's widely known. It's also widely known that it borrowed heavily from the E92 M3. As for turbo engines yes they make lots of torque that also well established. However again I'd argue most enthusiasts prefer and have a connection and passion for NA motors. If you'd like to disagree on this as well, by all means do so however that puts you in the minority again.

At no time did I say I want a car to "stay the same for four years". The point I was trying to make that you intentionally don't want to hear because of your inherent bias is that there's a difference between an evolution and pulling the rug out from under core customers and brand enthusiasts with major changes in short time frames.

I love my E92 M3 and my M2. However I don't like how this brand treats its most loyal customers. I waited a year for that M2 and have had it for 10 months only to learn it's being DROPPED. That's not a change or an evolution. That's an insult and so are those of you that argue that this is OK. Arguing for the sake of it is just annoying and obstructive. Use that little insight in your daily lives.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by philisme

I feel a bit the same...
The M2 is the first brand new car I bought. My other cars where all second hands (low mileage though).

The M2 came out in 2016, I received mine in March 2017 (after waiting for 10 months), then the LCI came in 2017 and finally the Competition in 2018. I'm bitter at BMW... Will they come every year with a new model ?
Usually, when you buy a new model, it's stays up to date for at least 3 years.

They did even worse with the M135i in Europe :
- 2012 : BMW introduce the M125i
- 2013 : They modify the turbocharger with an electronic waste-gate and a new M-Sport steering wheel.
- 2015 : LCI of the M135i, new front- and rear-end. One of the deepest "facelift" ever done on a BMW.
- 2016 : The M140i replaced the M135i
- 2017 : With the LCI of the 2 series, they replace the dashboard and cockpit of the M140i

Why are they so "short-term" minded ?

I wanted to buy the new M2 Comp, but a CS/CSL might come out in 2019. So I think I'll wait a bit and go to Porsche.

What should our expectations be for MY 2020 M2C? Nicer leather on seats? Weight reduction? HUD? B58? S58? New Colors?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by pimp4cheddar

Also - BMW fucked up by not making the M2 standard with the S55. The current M2 isn't much of an upgrade over the M235i...I mean look at the pricing for crying out loud.

This should have been the case years ago...it was a marketing blunder that they are trying to fix now.

Reposting this for some perspective. And yes, I'm also on the 'early adopters' boat (my M2 was built and delivered in April 2016):

Originally Posted by Artemis

Why no S55 engine with all M2 Competition bells 'n whistles in the 2016 M2 ? Try to understand the bigger picture:

Regarding the E82 1-Series, BMW M has also experimented by using the modified S54 engine of the E46 M3 CSL (S54B32HP), but it proved to be too heavy for the car.

The initial engine proposal for the E82 1M was the N55 engine, but BMW M encountered (mainly) Valvetronic issues that required time to sort out. The trouble was that, back then (E82 1-Series end of production date approaching), the time-window was too brief to get the job done the way BMW M wanted it. Therefore BMW M decided to withdraw the decision of using the N55 engine of the E82 135i (N55B30M0) as basis for rework/upgrade for the 1M, and decided instead to use the N54 engine of the E82 135i (N54B30) as basis for rework/upgrade. And yes, the 1M got the upgraded N54 engine (N54B30TO).

The (re)work done on the N55 engine for the 1M wasn't in vain. It was kept for further progress: use in a future M model. The 2014 F80 M3 and F82 M4 got the S55 engine (S55B30T0) and the 2016 F87 M2 got a modified N55 engine (N55B30T0).

More generally about 1M development, sources confirm that there has been a lot of arm-twisting between BMW M and BMW management because of the tight time-window between the E82 1-Series and the next-generation 1-Series (the F20). Former BMW M CEO boss Dr. Kay Segler presented a 1M proposal to the BMW board, but it got rejected. As he believed in it, he persisted: he reworked the initial 1M proposal, presented it again to the BMW board and it got approved that time around. That final 1M proposal was greenlighted as BMW management decided to use the E82 1-Series for the BMW eDrive evaluation (hybrid test cars), therefore slightly extending the E82 1-Series life cycle. This brief extra time-window was sufficient for building the 1M (though with time and budget constraints). Few realize that, without the E82 extended life cycle time granted by the BMW board for the E82 eDrive evaluation model, the E82 1M would have never been around.

Research and development, evaluation models, available R&D budget and time-constraints, pecking order management decisions, future price-position and profit margins, production facility capacity and constraints, third party parts and services availability, laws and regulations (safety, emissions, taxes, etc.), new competing cars, and so on: the final version of a car released onto the market is inevitably a combination of many factors, a compromise (almost always a toned down version of what the designers and engineers have developed, or at least had in mind).

Hence, possible spectacular M2 evaluation models that could be a wet dream for petrol heads, could definitely exist (as also rumored). But unfortunately will remain (finished or partially finished) unicorns stowed away in a BMW M hall/parking/bunker or get scrapped or only feature on computers of developers, should those never be greenlighted by management for market release (with the complexity of BMW and BMW M each having a management required to interact).

So it ain't always a story of what can be achieved, but also a story of what is allowed to be achieved: feasibility as restricted by laws & regs and by management decisions. Easy for enthusiasts to post car specs 'wish lists' on car forums and criticize choices made by a car maker, but the reality is pretty complex.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by m34m

With respect to the M3 I agree let's disagree. However I'd say the vast majority of enthusiasts look fondly upon the E90/2 M3 generations and much less so the current. With respect to 1M it's a brilliant car and that's widely known. It's also widely known that it borrowed heavily from the E92 M3. As for turbo engines yes they make lots of torque that also well established. However again I'd argue most enthusiasts prefer and have a connection and passion for NA motors. If you'd like to disagree on this as well, by all means do so however that puts you in the minority again.

At no time did I say I want a car to "stay the same for four years". The point I was trying to make that you intentionally don't want to hear because of your inherent bias is that there's a difference between an evolution and pulling the rug out from under core customers and brand enthusiasts with major changes in short time frames.

I love my E92 M3 and my M2. However I don't like how this brand treats its most loyal customers. I waited a year for that M2 and have had it for 10 months only to learn it's being DROPPED. That's not a change or an evolution. That's an insult and so are those of you that argue that this is OK. Arguing for the sake of it is just annoying and obstructive. Use that little insight in your daily lives.

You really can’t be mad at BMW for dropping the current M2. It was forced on them by the EU smog regulations. I am sure they would have loved to sell the LCI M2 another year or two.

[silverado]

Originally Posted by m34m

I love my E92 M3 and my M2. However I don't like how this brand treats its most loyal customers. I waited a year for that M2 and have had it for 10 months only to learn it's being DROPPED. That's not a change or an evolution. That's an insult and so are those of you that argue that this is OK. Arguing for the sake of it is just annoying and obstructive. Use that little insight in your daily lives.

Originally Posted by m34m

Guys get off the fucking Kool Aid.

This is getting too repetitive so I'll keep it as short as possible.

I don't speak for others, but I have better things to do than argue for the sake of arguing

We both had the 330i to 335i change and it only slightly bugged me as I said earlier. I ended up owning the car for 9 years and I really enjoyed it. In the end, the non-turbo engine on my car was the more trouble-free one to have, so that change was in my favor.

I forgot to mention earlier that I bought a 2015 M235i only for it to be replaced with an M240i the next year with a brand new engine that's really great. That didn't bug me one bit and I was able to enjoy the car thoroughly for the length of the 3 year lease.

And now with the M2, I'm only slightly annoyed that I don't have the latest car, but I made the decision to not wait because I loved the current M2 and waiting would have meant spending months and months without an M2 and that wasn't worth it for me. I plan to keep the M2 for a long time.

So, to me this type of change is inevitable with most companies and maybe more so with BMW. I hope we both learned this when the 335i came out. It is also ludicrous to say that any of these three cars (2006 330i, 2015 M235i, 2018 M2) were half-baked or rushed! The were all great cars.

The bottom line is: I buy a car after doing my research and deciding that I like what it offers me. It doesn't suddenly start offering me less because another car comes into existence!

And since you're accusing me and others of drinking the Kool Aid and are giving us advice about our daily lives, let me say this. The only explanations I can think of for being this angry that a better car was merely announced 10 months after you bought yours are jealousy of those who'll get the "better" M2 and/or the loss of bragging rights for having the "best" M2. I would advise you to try to get rid of these feelings and enjoy the car for just yourself.

[m34m]

Originally Posted by silverado

This is getting too repetitive so I'll keep it as short as possible.

I don't speak for others, but I have better things to do than argue for the sake of arguing

We both had the 330i to 335i change and it only slightly bugged me as I said earlier. I ended up owning the car for 9 years and I really enjoyed it. In the end, the non-turbo engine on my car was the more trouble-free one to have, so that change was in my favor.

I forgot to mention earlier that I bought a 2015 M235i only for it to be replaced with an M240i the next year with a brand new engine that's really great. That didn't bug me one bit and I was able to enjoy the car thoroughly for the length of the 3 year lease.

And now with the M2, I'm only slightly annoyed that I don't have the latest car, but I made the decision to not wait because I loved the current M2 and waiting would have meant spending months and months without an M2 and that wasn't worth it for me. I plan to keep the M2 for a long time.
So, to me this type of change is inevitable with most companies and maybe more so with BMW. I hope we both learned this when the 335i came out. It is also ludicrous to say that any of these three cars (2006 330i, 2015 M235i, 2018 M2) were half-baked or rushed! The were all great cars.

The bottom line is: I buy a car after doing my research and deciding that I like what it offers me. It doesn't suddenly start offering me less because another car comes into existence.

And since you're accusing me and others of drinking the Kool Aid and are giving us advice about our daily lives, let me say this. The only explanations I can think of for being this angry that a better car was merely announced 10 months after you bought yours are jealousy of those who'll get the "better" M2 and/or the loss of bragging rights for having the "best" M2. I would advise you to try to get rid of these feelings and enjoy the car for just yourself.

Bud I'm not going to respond to your self centered gibberish. Congratulations for not being "bugged" "bothered" or "annoyed". If
you're not the least bit concerned why even comment on the subject? Sounds like a whole lot of justifications. I hope you've convinced yourself. Whatever pal.

[amancuso]

Originally Posted by bm4w

That should be the case........unless you're a M2 owner. I can't fathom how they are fervently defending this.

I dunno, I don't think there's much different from a 2016 to my 2018, except for the minor LCI changes. that's 3 model years. One and done.

[silverado]

Originally Posted by m34m

Bud I'm not going to respond to your self centered gibberish. Congratulations for not being "bugged" "bothered" or "annoyed". If
you're not the least bit concerned why even comment on the subject? Sounds like a whole lot of justifications. I hope you've convinced yourself. Whatever pal.

Right... you're not responding because it's gibberish

Why we all read and choose to respond in the forums needs no explanation, but I'll tell you. We read threads that catch our attention and we respond when we have something to say "Not the least bit concerned?" Where do you read that in my post?

Whatever, be upset. I hope you find a car company that suits your needs.

[KevM2]

I have an honest question for everyone.... did it not cost BMW $ to produce the N55 engine in the M2? An engine that has all the important parts from the S55 engine. So... why did they not simply drop the S55 in the M2 to begin with and call it a day? Unless was it because they didn't want their M3/4 sales taking a hit... or perhaps, in the tradition of the 1M, they wanted to continue the non traditional non M engine in an M car... don't get me wrong, for all intensive purposes, the N55 in the M2 is a real M engine with all its bits from its bigger S55 brother except the label.... I'm just genuinely wondering what was going through their mind :

[babym2]

I agree with the OP, after my current 18 M2 which I bought 2 months ago I will never buy another BMW because of this, slap in the face to current owners after only 3 years of production, they upgraded just about everything on the car and are only charging a couple thousand more, not a good way to promote brand loyalty

Going back to American either a ATSV, CTSV, or maybe even a Camaro once I pay off my M2 equity a little more

[m34m]

Originally Posted by silverado

Right... you're not responding because it's gibberish

Why we all read and choose to respond in the forums needs no explanation, but I'll tell you. We read threads that catch our attention and we respond when we have something to say "Not the least bit concerned?" Where do you read that in my post?

Whatever, be upset. I hope you find a car company that suits your needs.

Are you BMW's lap dog? I chose BMW many times and I'll continue to choose whatever brand I like. No advice or direction from you is required. I'll also continue to criticize as I see fit. Your irrelevant opinions notwithstanding.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by KevM2

I have an honest question for everyone.... did it not cost BMW $ to produce the N55 engine in the M2? An engine that has all the important parts from the S55 engine. So... why did they not simply drop the S55 in the M2 to begin with and call it a day? Unless was it because they didn't want their M3/4 sales taking a hit... or perhaps, in the tradition of the 1M, they wanted to continue the non traditional non M engine in an M car... don't get me wrong, for all intensive purposes, the N55 in the M2 is a real M engine with all its bits from its bigger S55 brother except the label.... I'm just genuinely wondering what was going through their mind :

Only BMW knows.

For some ideas that sprung to my mind: see post #250 of this thread.

[Poochie]

There are always a lot that are going on behind the scenes in getting a vehicle approved within budget concerns and applicable laws.

This became obvious to me ever since was a little kid and I saw an episode of "The Simpsons" where Homer met his long lost brother and tanked his automotive manufacturing company by designing the most expensive vehicle.

BMW can't always give you want you want at a certain level of pricing; there is always going to be a compromise.. But for what you do get for your money in comparison to the competition (no pun) is worth every penny IMO.

[silverado]

Originally Posted by m34m

Are you BMW's lap dog? I chose BMW many times and I'll continue to choose whatever brand I like. No advice or direction from you is required. I'll also continue to criticize as I see fit. Your irrelevant opinions notwithstanding.

Wow. Who asked you to stop criticizing?

So anyone who has a different view than you MUST BE drinking the Kool Aid, speaking gibberish or being BMW's lapdog. Everyone is supposed to agree with you or shut the F up.

Snowflake much?

[khanyam4]

You should of waited just a little bit longer.

[PAC]

I can't really think of much I would want from the CS other than Hockenhiem silver and the new mirror caps(hoping these will be easy parts bins pulls and I can get them sooner rather than later). I'll take the N55's sound every day compared to the S55.

Besides if the paint is "thin" as some say (forgive me if I missed some tounge in cheek humor) I will make my LCI Imola Red or Hockenhiem Silver one day.

[Spa2k]

Originally Posted by KevM2

I have an honest question for everyone.... did it not cost BMW $ to produce the N55 engine in the M2? An engine that has all the important parts from the S55 engine. So... why did they not simply drop the S55 in the M2 to begin with and call it a day? Unless was it because they didn't want their M3/4 sales taking a hit... or perhaps, in the tradition of the 1M, they wanted to continue the non traditional non M engine in an M car... don't get me wrong, for all intensive purposes, the N55 in the M2 is a real M engine with all its bits from its bigger S55 brother except the label.... I'm just genuinely wondering what was going through their mind :

Obviously, BMW chose the best engine it had for the original M2 - the N55. And now that powers beyond BMW’s control have regulated that engine into extinction, BMW went back to the engine it didn’t think was good enough the first time and settled for the S55 in the M2 Comp.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

Obviously, BMW chose the best engine it had for the original M2 - the N55. And now that powers beyond BMW’s control have regulated that engine into extinction, BMW went back to the engine it didn’t think was good enough the first time and settled for the S55 in the M2 Comp.

LOL, nice try.