[M3 Adjuster]

Several members of my local chapter went on a driving Tour this weekend. Roughly 19 cars, ninety percent BMWs of different age , driving the same pace ( for the most part ) through the Texas Hill country.

When we came to a stop after 1.5 hours I noticed the Two M2 present had incredibly dirty front wheels. :

We drove another hour and a half and stopped again and i decided to take photos. I snapped photos of my 1M, an M Z3, an X1 , as well as several other vehicles.

The only other vehicle whose wheels were nearly as dirty was a Ford Mustang.

The take home message isn't to say that M2 stock brake pads are unsafe. They are fine.

While pad dust is not the only indicator of wear...the amount of dust on the M2 present was significantly higher than other cars.

If one intends to take their M2 to track day.. I highly recommend you change pads to something more aggressive.

[M3 Adjuster]

Additional photos.

Note that the M2 wheel here is from the second M2!

[rjn]

Correlation vs causation?

Nice pics. Could very well also mean that the older BMWs have been around long enough to have motivated their owners to ditch their dirty german stock pads to something else already? Just sayin...

Took me all of 2 weeks to go with Powerstops for the street on the M2. Quicker than previous BMWs, but same solution everytime. OEM pads are effective, but filthy

[Nine Lives]

These are a great upgrade with APF 404 pads for less dust.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by rjn

Correlation vs causation?

Nice pics. Could very well also mean that the older BMWs have been around long enough to have motivated their owners to ditch their dirty german stock pads to something else already? Just sayin...

Took me all of 2 weeks to go with Powerstops for the street on the M2. Quicker than previous BMWs, but same solution everytime. OEM pads are effective, but filthy

I didn't quiz everyone on brake pad choice.

I can tell you that my 1M is on stock pads.


There are zillions of variables ..

What was consistent here was

- cars clean prior to trip
- cars traveled the same distance
- cars traveled the same route
- cars traveled at the same speeds
- all " measurement " occurred on the same date and time



The cars that had to drive the fastest are the lead car ( setting the pace ) and the cars at the end of the train ( tail gunner and anyone falling behind).

The Two M2 were in the middle of the pack.

[CanadianDriver]

Good observation. I was suspicious of the cross-drilled rotors shaving the pads faster but the 3rd photo from top looks clean...

Thanks for sharing.

[MerlinPurple]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

These are a great upgrade with APF 404 pads for less dust.

[Bazgab]

I wonder how the stock pad dust is compared to my MK7 Golf R. That car's front pads dust way more than any other car I have ever had. After a cleaning they are covered in like 40-60 miles of normal commuting driving.

[Tralfaz]

After 2 days of reasonably aggressive driving in the rain you should see the wheels now (though it would be hard to tell brake dust from silt).

In an case, I will have to keep the brake pads in mind when I get to a track day.

[MayorAdamWest]

Wow, I am blown away at the ridiculousness of this. How you correlated brake dust to "softness" or stopping power is really astonishing. I have Ferodo DSUNO on my car and my wheels are completely covered in brake dust within 30 minutes of driving. Does that mean they aren't good for the track either? On my GT3, I'd see brake dust on the wheel just going up the street and back. Now, that said, I don't see much brake dust on my 328d, so I think it's ready for track time!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by MayorAdamWest

Wow, I am blown away at the ridiculousness of this. How you correlated brake dust to "softness" or stopping power is really astonishing. I have Ferodo DSUNO on my car and my wheels are completely covered in brake dust within 30 minutes of driving. Does that mean they aren't good for the track either? On my GT3, I'd see brake dust on the wheel just going up the street and back. Now, that said, I don't see much brake dust on my 328d, so I think it's ready for track time!

Thanks Mayor.. but you just presented an apple and an orange and a pear in three different situations. As stated previously, while the cars may be the same fruits, at the very least the conditions were the same.

I didn't correlate. I've made an observation that is supported by anecdotal evidence from drivers.

However you've lost the plot.

I presume that your ferodos actually stop well on track? Without fading ? I'm Glad you got them because That's NOT the case with the OEM M2 pads. ( I also like Ferodo )

Pads that dust a ton and yet don't stop you on track are worthless.

Some might even say ridiculous.

That's the problem with the OEM M2 pads.
If they dusted a ton and stopped with the same quality and feel of most other BMWs over the last couple decades then I wouldn't have made this post. :


This is the first BMW ( M or non-M ) that I have seen in my 25 years driving BMWs on track that isn't ready for moderate track duty.


I made this post because this is a departure from BMW in the past. Many people purchasing the BMW M2 will have come from another BMW. Any E36 M3 or E46 M3 owner that's runs in the intermediate level group has been able to take their car to the track with OE pads with no issues.

This is a simple heads up to keep people ( particularly former BMW owners and advanced level drivers ) from showing up at their local track on their stock M2 pads and being unprepared and wasting their money cutting sessions short or burning through their pads in the first day of a two day HPDE weekend

No different than recommending to a C6 corvette owner to make sure that they have proper cooling for trans before going to the track.

Experienced track drivers that were already intending to put track pads on the car .. keep on keeping on

[IS+1]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

This is the first BMW ( M or non-M ) that I have seen in my 25 years driving BMWs on track that isn't ready for moderate track duty.

If I am not mistaken, the F80 M3/F82 M4 have the same brakes and brake pads as the M2 right (assuming we are not talking about the CCB option)? So given that they are slightly heavier cars, would your above statement be even more true in relation to the M3/4 with stock pads?

[3Si]

I've been to 2 non-competitive track sessions with stock pads last year (one was pretty cold, so didn't push the car that hard). And they were fine with breaks in between hot laps. Having said that, just like any stock cars, racing pads/SS lines/brake fluids will definitely improve the braking performance.

[Bluenose-2er]

Just curious, the wheel photos you show with less dust seem to be suspiciously shiny (especially the last one). It could be a chicken or egg thing, but might those also be wheels with coating?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Just curious, the wheel photos you show with less dust seem to be suspiciously shiny (especially the last one). It could be a chicken or egg thing, but might those also be wheels with coating?

The photos are ten of 19 vehicles. There were two M2 at the point the photos were taken.


@IS_+1.

There were two M4 on the trip as well.... I didn't notice the same issue with them. With respect to the M3 and M4... If the cars have the same front pads , they may not have the same airflow or cooling or brake bias. The heavy dusting was prevalent on one M2. I thought it was odd and at the next stop checked the other. Looking around at all the cars both M2 stuck out like a sore thumb in that regard.

One observation that could be more likely to be than wax is that most of the cars with shinier wheels don't have drilled rotors?

[Bluenose-2er]

My point was coated wheels would dust less (or show less dust). Still one possible factor.

I agree drilled rotors will dust more.

Was a good observation... just too many variables to assess if there is anything different about the M2 brake pads... especially if the M3/M4 with the same brakes was not as heavy on the dust.

Once I get my car out of hibernation, I will be able to see really quickly if it is as bad as my old 135i for dust.

[LGWGN]

Off topic: Was this drive near D/FW or in South Texas?

[IS+1]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

My point was coated wheels would dust less (or show less dust). Still one possible factor.

I agree drilled rotors will dust more.

Was a good observation... just too many variables to assess if there is anything different about the M2 brake pads... especially if the M3/M4 with the same brakes was not as heavy on the dust.

Once I get my car out of hibernation, I will be able to see really quickly if it is as bad as my old 135i for dust.

The 135i is horrible for brake dust, but on the plus side I found that the stock pads held up impressively well for moderate track use.

[Tralfaz]

Originally Posted by LGWGN

Off topic: Was this drive near D/FW or in South Texas?

The drive was from D/FW to Fredericksburg. The pictures he took were, I believe, just after we got to Fredericksburg (or at least the pic of my wheel was). Two of us with M2's had to come from north of Dallas to Cleburne (SW of Fort Worth) to meet up, so we had a bit of a drive to start off through city highways on a Friday morning.

The 2nd day we drove the twisted sisters (in conditions ranging from moist to fairly wet). 3rd day was back to D/FW.

It was actually pretty cool seeing how my car would do at speeds...a little over the limit...in less than ideal conditions.

I will also note, as one post did, that my 135i put a fair amount of brake dust on the wheels also. With the partially black wheels on the M2, though, it at least doesn't look as bad.

[MayorAdamWest]

Why are you all feeding this insane conspiracy theory? He literally posted pictures of wheels (of different colors) and made some sort of correlation to their track effectiveness. This is literally the dumbest thread I have ever seen on this forum.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by LGWGN

Off topic: Was this drive near D/FW or in South Texas?

The lone star chapter has a driving tour every 3-4 weeks. https://lscbmwcca.org/upcoming-events/driving-tours/

Some of the events are 1/2 day or full day events in the North Texas Area. They are planned for both Saturdays and occasionally on Sundays as well.

There are also some longer tours that are 3-4 days in length and on those trips the group will travel to ARKANSAS, OKLAHOMA, NEW MEXICO or WEST TEXAS. There is a NEW MEXICO trip planned for this summer Sept 20-24.

here is a post I made about a longer event a few years ago.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115740


Tralfaz gave the skinny on this particular event.


Driving tours are a great way to meet other BMW enthusiasts and get your car out on the open road.
It's a great way to find local great driving roads and also see different sights in and around the state.
Spouses and families are welcome. This past weekend we had at least two couples where the wife and husband both drove separate cars so they could each enjoy the driving.


- join us!

[six-n-twins53]

Look up spurious correlation. This would pretty much sum up your assessment