[adc]

Originally Posted by mxa121

I imagine this is what it's like on the Cayman vs 911 boards as well!

If weight were the only reason for corner speed, a GTR would be slower, but it's not. That speaks volumes for the M2. This isn't really new though, is it? Back when the 1M was introduced, it could keep up with the E92 M3 as well.

Fact is, smaller tracks will always favor smaller cars. I doubt they will be this close at, say, VIR. Not knocking either car, it's just facts. I can run laps at small tracks in my Cayman that equal what I did in my past M3, even at 100 hp down. But at longer tracks, nope.

I'm not sure what you refer to when you say "smaller car": less weight, or shorter wheelbase. Wheelbase does play a role in certain transitions and corners, but IMO a smaller role than weight.

Since the M2 weighs just a tad less than an M3/4, or even slightly mor depending on options, then what gives? In my understanding, you have to factor in the power to weight to grip ratio.

The M2 has actually wider tires in front than the M3, and a little less tire in the back which is ok since it has less power. To my mind, mystery solved.


This is true of your Cayman as well - it weighs significantly less than an M3 - by what, 600lbs? - and it is massively over-tired compared to the M3. So, on short tracks where corner grip matters most the Cayman will rule.

I'll soon hit the track with 275/305 R compounds, I expect significantly faster lap times as a result.

[adc]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

I actually love the f80 as well - it's fast, performs better - but it's a tad too big.

I'm not gonna get one though. Pcar (sadly don't know what to think of the 718 and 991 that just came out - turdbo). I'd rather wait for the next m3/4, hoping it has a hybrid drivetrain like the p1, 918, laF. That would be awesome.

Actually I'm excited that the 911 went turbo - finally it has the power to match the looks and bite.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the price will be reasonable for an out of lease 2 year old example when my M3 lease ends... Then again I fear that the cost of tracking a 911 is much bigger than tracking an M3 - any thoughts on that?

[mxa121]

Originally Posted by adc

In my understanding, you have to factor in the power to weight to grip ratio.

The M2 has actually wider tires in front than the M3, and a little less tire in the back which is ok since it has less power. To my mind, mystery solved.

Agree. It is a ratio. I am generalizing by saying smaller car. There are assumptions made.

I am just going to type some numbers here for academic purposes only. We can take from it whatever we want:
Power--Weight--lb/hp--Tire Width

Example 1:
987.1 Cayman S
295--3100--10.5--235/265
E92 M3
414--3704--8.95--245/265
Delta w/ respect to M3
40%--19%--15%--draw

Example 2:
M2
365--3450--9.45--245/265
M4
425--3530--8.3--255/275
Delta w/respect to M4
16%--2.3%--12%--4%

In the first example, a very wide power gap to the M3 makes it seem like a worthless comparison. Then notice, huge weight gap and nearly equal tire size. The handling of the smaller car in this case could outweigh power difference on smaller tracks. yin and yang these cars.

In the second example, the M4 has a power advantage but the weight and tire size is nearly equal between the two. So it makes sense that these two cars would be so close in real world driving. It is up to the driver to use that extra power, and it has already been noted that the extra power on those tires is tricky to put down.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by adc

Actually I'm excited that the 911 went turbo - finally it has the power to match the looks and bite.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the price will be reasonable for an out of lease 2 year old example when my M3 lease ends... Then again I fear that the cost of tracking a 911 is much bigger than tracking an M3 - any thoughts on that?

Pretty much. Everyone I know that has a 911 newer than a 993 and tracks it does so with a car under warranty. ..

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by adc

Actually I'm excited that the 911 went turbo - finally it has the power to match the looks and bite.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the price will be reasonable for an out of lease 2 year old example when my M3 lease ends... Then again I fear that the cost of tracking a 911 is much bigger than tracking an M3 - any thoughts on that?

Way more LOL

We can agree on that for sure.

I actually like the M2 though.