[norMcal]

I've been going round and round how to replace my '04 e46 M3. I bought it 3 years ago with 33k miles, knowing that I could put about 5k/year on it without losing much money. My plan was to keep it ~3 years and sell it before it reaches 50k miles which is going according to plan. It was a great car, had fun modding, improving performance and my driving skills. So now that I hang out mostly in advanced groups when I go to the track, I feel the need for more speed. A GT Porsche would be the logical choice, but I can't see forking out 6 figures for one.

Long story short(er) I had a deposit on a M2 C, but it just doesn't make sense to me. It'll cost me $70k out the door, and for another $20k I'd be in GT4 territory. Besides, the M2C doesn't excite me as much as I hoped. Yes, more power, better brakes and seat are all good. But the negatives are more weight, crappy sound, fugly muffler hanging out the bottom, wheels that look blah and so forth.

My budget is $60k with mods. I will not finance it, so that is my max. Question is. Do I get a $45-50k '16-'17, or spend $50-55k on a '18? (Note I am estimating these prices for a low mile example ~5k miles).
Depreciation/resale are always important to me. I won't keep the car forever and want to get as much back as possibly in a few years. I will lightly mod it, suspension, brakes, tune for track use, but not crazy.

So what is better pre LCI or LCI for what I want? What are the differences anyway? I tink dash is LCD. What else? Is M Performance suspension worth seeking? Or is it not good enough for track?

[akkando]

the LED headlights if they spec exec package is the big one. Other than that dash, gauges, and tail lights and one model year newer. LCI got the option in the US to have moonroof, and backup camera became standard on LCI, pre LCI backup was part of exec.

Apparently the taillights and gauge cluster is fairly cheap and easy to mod to a pre LCI. The LED headlights are very expensive to add.

People flip for the LED headlights so it might be worth it for resale to get LCI car.

As far as the car drives there is no difference.

[Tag]

Aside from the lights, the fully revised dash is probably the single biggest upgrade for LCI along with the newer cluster and iDrive 6.

[silversx]

around here in socal the m2c is just arriving and are marked up 7-10k.. I got my 18 for 57k with exec pkg which is 5k off msrp..

a much better deal then getting shafted by mark up

[430409M2]

Depending if it is your cup of tea, try looking at the 911 used market. If you want pure power, older turbo models can be had for a good price. If you'd prefer NA power, 997s are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

[detroitm2]

Not sure about the prices over there in the republic of california, but I picked up my LCI with ~ 3000 miles on it, plus it already have the MPE and some CF goodies for $49.5K from a dealership. I'd imagine if you're a cash buyer, you can find a lot of options around the country and get a good low mileage LCI for around $45-50K. I'd go that route personally. But if you're just making a track machine, I'm sure a pre-LCI would be fine.

[JRF]

This past weekend a buddy of mine who has owned a 2016 since new came over to check out my new LCI. Cars are the same color (MG), both MT, both have the executive package, and neither has a sunroof.

He struggled to find any noticeable differences between our cars. He looked it over pretty good and the only delta that he came up with was the headlights and some interior trim pieces.....and this is coming from a car guy who has been driving a 2016 as his DD for over 2 years.

If i was buying a 2016-2018 M2 on the used market, I would NOT pay a premium for an LCI. I would look for the cheapest low mileage car I could find of any year.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by akkando

the LED headlights if they spec exec package is the big one. Other than that dash, gauges, and tail lights and one model year newer. Moonroof option and backup camera standard on LCI, pre LCI backup was part of exec.

Apparently the taillights and gauge cluster is fairly cheap and easy to mod to a pre LCI. The LED headlights are very expensive to add.

People flip for the LED headlights so it might be worth it for resale to get LCI car.

As far as the car drives there is no difference.

Originally Posted by Tag

Aside from the lights, the fully revised dash is probably the single biggest upgrade for LCI along with the newer cluster and iDrive 6.

Good info. Thanks. Why are the LED headlights such a big deal?
I don't want moonroof (weight). Can LCI be had without?

Originally Posted by silversx

around here in socal the m2c is just arriving and are marked up 7-10k.. I got my 18 for 57k with exec pkg which is 5k off msrp..

a much better deal then getting shafted by mark up

Totally agree on M2C mark up. I do not pay mark up, period.

Originally Posted by 430409M2

Depending if it is your cup of tea, try looking at the 911 used market. If you want pure power, older turbo models can be had for a good price. If you'd prefer NA power, 997s are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

I just don't like the looks of the 997. The 991 looks so much better. I have considered a 991 Carrera S, but a lowish miles Carrera S, MT, will still go for $80k +, from what I can tell. Again, too close to GT4 at that point, which would be better for what I want.

Originally Posted by laszlof

Not sure about the prices over there in the republic of california, but I picked up my LCI with ~ 3000 miles on it, plus it already have the MPE and some CF goodies for $49.5K from a dealership. I'd imagine if you're a cash buyer, you can find a lot of options around the country and get a good low mileage LCI for around $45-50K. I'd go that route personally. But if you're just making a track machine, I'm sure a pre-LCI would be fine.

Republic of CA sadly a bit true.

I don't mind going out of state to find one, but I don't see the prices that low. I would jump on the same deal you found. I must be looking in the wrong places, cars.com, cargurus?

[detroitm2]

Originally Posted by JRF

This past weekend a buddy of mine who has owned a 2016 since new came over to check out my new LCI. Cars are the same color (MG), both MT, both have the executive package, and neither has a sunroof.

He struggled to find any noticeable differences between our cars. He looked it over pretty good and the only delta that he came up with was the headlights and some interior trim pieces.....and this is coming from a car guy who has been driving a 2016 as his DD for over 2 years.

If i was buying a 2016-2018 M2 on the used market, I would NOT pay a premium for an LCI. I would look for the cheapest low mileage car I could find of any year.

Unless those things matter to you.

But for the OP, I totally agree. find the cheapest low mileage you can. Its a track car, I'm pretty sure you wont need adaptive headlights.

[mr_lab_rat]

I'm not very experienced with resale value. I buy cars new or nearly new and keep them for a long time.

But common sense is telling me the pre-LCI is a better choice because you can get a low mileage one for 40-45. In few years I don't think people will see a difference between 2017 and 2018. It will be the old model regardless and it will be in the 30k price range. So you will lose more money on LCI.

As far as the difference, I really don't care about the LED lights, I really don't see significant advantage over xenons. Same for the gauges, in fact I prefer the old school analogue dials. So for me LCI doesn't matter.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by laszlof

But for the OP, I totally agree. find the cheapest low mileage you can. Its a track car, I'm pretty sure you wont need adaptive headlights.

Only on the trip to the track in the AM would I need those. And it isn't like Xenon's suck.

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

I'm not very experienced with resale value. I buy cars new or nearly new and keep them for a long time.

But common sense is telling me the pre-LCI is a better choice because you can get a low mileage one for 40-45. In few years I don't think people will see a difference between 2017 and 2018. It will be the old model regardless and it will be in the 30k price range. So you will lose more money on LCI.

As far as the difference, I really don't care about the LED lights, I really don't see significant advantage over Xenons. Same for the gauges, in fact I prefer the old school analogue dials. So for me LCI doesn't matter.

I would have to agree with that school of thought. These cars are going to level off in the low 30's no matter what year if the differences are that insignificant. And I tend to be old school also. No need for the LED gauges.

I wonder if MG color will be the most sought after down the road, since it is the only one discontinued? I can go for any, outside of black, just because of upkeep, because it does look pretty good on this car.

[RAM_F30_F87]

If you want a sunroof, then you'd have to look for an '18 LCI. Otherwise you just need to decide if the LCI changes are worth the likely increase in cost.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Good info. Thanks. Why are the LED headlights such a big deal?
I don't want moonroof (weight). Can LCI be had without?

Yea I made it sound like moonroof was standard. Moonroof became an option in the US on the LCI models, before that a moonroof could not be spec on the pre LCI in the US.

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by norMcal

I've been going round and round how to replace my '04 e46 M3. I bought it 3 years ago with 33k miles, knowing that I could put about 5k/year on it without losing much money. My plan was to keep it ~3 years and sell it before it reaches 50k miles which is going according to plan. It was a great car, had fun modding, improving performance and my driving skills. So now that I hang out mostly in advanced groups when I go to the track, I feel the need for more speed. A GT Porsche would be the logical choice, but I can't see forking out 6 figures for one.

Long story short(er) I had a deposit on a M2 C, but it just doesn't make sense to me. It'll cost me $70k out the door, and for another $20k I'd be in GT4 territory. Besides, the M2C doesn't excite me as much as I hoped. Yes, more power, better brakes and seat are all good. But the negatives are more weight, crappy sound, fugly muffler hanging out the bottom, wheels that look blah and so forth.

My budget is $60k with mods. I will not finance it, so that is my max. Question is. Do I get a $45-50k '16-'17, or spend $50-55k on a '18? (Note I am estimating these prices for a low mile example ~5k miles).
Depreciation/resale are always important to me. I won't keep the car forever and want to get as much back as possibly in a few years. I will lightly mod it, suspension, brakes, tune for track use, but not crazy.

So what is better pre LCI or LCI for what I want? What are the differences anyway? I tink dash is LCD. What else? Is M Performance suspension worth seeking? Or is it not good enough for track?

The LCI is a better drive - steering, traction and engine all improved. BUT this is all through software and the pre-LCI can be upgraded with the latest packs - a dealer will probably charge 1 hour labour to do this.

Get a pre-LCI, save some cash and get it's software upgraded.

Then code the steering to the new competition car's EPS mode - you'll have a great sports car.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by widetyres

The LCI is a better drive - steering, traction and engine all improved. BUT this is all through software and the pre-LCI can be upgraded with the latest packs - a dealer will probably charge 1 hour labour to do this.

Get a pre-LCI, save some cash and get it's software upgraded.

Then code the steering to the new competition car's EPS mode - you'll have a great sports car.

So far the consensus seems to be to get a pre LCI, and upgrading software as you suggested would take care of those "shortcomings" with the upgrades on steeing, traction etc.

What about the M Performance suspension? Worth it? As good as a aftermarket coil over? I know I still need camber plates.

[mr_lab_rat]

Originally Posted by norMcal

What about the M Performance suspension? Worth it? As good as a aftermarket coil over? I know I still need camber plates.

As far as I know KW is making those for BMW so you can get the same performance from them for less money.
For street use Dinan height adjustable springs (stock shocks) are popular for good ride comfort.
For the best track setup I'd suggest you ask in the dedicated suspension or track forum section.

[BruceM]

What about the engine and steering was improved from 2017 to 2018, exactly?

As to 2016 vs. 2017, I believe the first 2016 cars had iDrive 4, and the 2017s (and maybe late 2016s?) had iDrive 5. I prefer iDrive 5 myself. In fact, I prefer it over iDrive 6, for that matter. I had iDrive 6 Lite coded for awhile, and switched back...

But none of that really matters for a track car.

[AndrewC1989]

You could easily add the LCI tail lights, guage cluster, and ID6 Lite to a '17 and it would only cost you ~$1500. ISTEP updates are readily available at any dealer and you can code in any EPS and MDM changes yourself or pay a coder to do it for you for next to nothing.

So it really just comes down to how important the new angel eyes and an optional sunroof are to you. Going with the Pre-LCI would save you some money for mods/upgrades but then again those icon angel eyes are super cool.

Regardless of which you choose just make sure to get a car that has the exec pack if you're going to use it off the track/want better resale value.

In terms of coilovers, going with M Performance would help resale value but they won't go as low as the equivalent KW V3's so that's something to consider if you plan on dropping the car. Most people I know with the M perf coils have to remove their rear spring perches to get the stance they want, and even then it isn't perfect. Personally I'd go aftermarket.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

As far as I know KW is making those for BMW so you can get the same performance from them for less money.
For street use Dinan height adjustable springs (stock shocks) are popular for good ride comfort.
For the best track setup I'd suggest you ask in the dedicated suspension or track forum section.

So the MP got to be pretty good if they are made by KW. They might be overpriced on a new order, but on a lightly used car I would think it saves money, since the install would be ~$1k for the KW's. Then again, I still need to add camber plates, which means removing front struts regardless.

Originally Posted by andrewc89

You could easily add the LCI tail lights, guage cluster, and ID6 Lite to a '17 and it would only cost you ~$1500. ISTEP updates are readily available at any dealer and you can code in any EPS and MDM changes yourself or pay a coder to do it for you for next to nothing.

So it really just comes down to how important the new angel eyes and an optional sunroof are to you. Going with the Pre-LCI would save you some money for mods/upgrades but then again those icon angel eyes are super cool.

Regardless of which you choose just make sure to get a car that has the exec pack if you're going to use it off the track/want better resale value.

In terms of coilovers, going with M Performance would help resale value but they won't go as low as the equivalent KW V3's so that's something to consider if you plan on dropping the car. Most people I know with the M perf coils have to remove their rear spring perches to get the stance they want, and even then it isn't perfect. Personally I'd go aftermarket.

Since I don't want sunroof, it would pretty much boil down to how much those cool light are worth it to me? I don't think it's worth ~$5k.

So Exec package is sought after. What is it for/include?

[Canuckistan]

Just want to point out that the LCI instrument cluster is not LED/digital. It still uses analog gauges, but the colour scheme is the newer black background/white numbers/red dials (same as in the M2C, which however uses a different font). The pre LCI used a gray background and there were complaints about visibility of the information displayed, particularly in bright sunlight. The old set up also had these permanently visible lane departure lights that I absolutely hated, while the LCI shows nothing with that feature turned off. I would suggest having a look at the two instrument clusters in person, as they are very different and could be an important decision factor for you.

[mr_lab_rat]

Originally Posted by Canuckistan

Just want to point out that the LCI instrument cluster is not LED/digital. It still uses analog gauges, but the colour scheme is the newer black background/white numbers/red dials (same as in the M2C, which however uses a different font). The pre LCI used a gray background and there were complaints about visibility of the information displayed, particularly in bright sunlight. The old set up also had these permanently visible lane departure lights that I absolutely hated, while the LCI shows nothing with that feature turned off. I would suggest having a look at the two instrument clusters in person, as they are very different and could be an important decision factor for you.

I'm not sure I understand this correctly. I have the pre-LCI. It's got good old analog gauges with physical needles. I drove the LCI and it had virtual needles. Despite the analog layout I'd call that a digital instrument cluster. When the car is off the screen is just blank.

[Canuckistan]

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

I'm not sure I understand this correctly. I have the pre-LCI. It's got good old analog gauges with physical needles. I drove the LCI and it had virtual needles. Despite the analog layout I'd call that a digital instrument cluster. When the car is off the screen is just blank.

When the LCI is off, the instrument cluster is just not backlit. If you take a closer look you can see the physical/analog needles/dials in the dark behind the glass. I've driven BMWs with the digital non-physical dials and it's a crap experience with awful responsiveness. I hated it. The M2 LCI cluster is old school.