06-21-2017, 01:44 AM | #67 | |
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PS.. Fixed your comment above. |
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06-21-2017, 08:09 AM | #68 |
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I didn't buy the M2 just for the transmission. But I can tell you I wouldn't have bought an M2 if it only came in DCT.
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06-21-2017, 12:08 PM | #69 |
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06-21-2017, 12:29 PM | #70 |
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Manual transmission was the number one priority for me with this car. I would've paid extra for the manual if the DCT was standard and the manual was an add on (extra cost) option.
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06-21-2017, 03:54 PM | #71 | |
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First on a list for an M2 CS but will be passing if it's DCT only.
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06-21-2017, 10:38 PM | #73 | ||
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06-21-2017, 10:43 PM | #74 |
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Nice assumption but so wrong. So so wrong. So long as there is a used car market we enthusiasts can avoid that Frankenstein you described.
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06-22-2017, 07:51 AM | #75 |
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06-22-2017, 09:06 AM | #76 | |
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To your own admission, the market potentially leaving BMW is a small one, and it's getting smaller each day. At some point, the loss in margin with that small market leaving will be outweighed by the savings gained by only supporting one transmission. We may already be there, but BMW has to do what's best for its shareholders. And by the way, if you don't think that these same discussions are being held in Stuttgart, you'd be mistaken. Last edited by pissclams; 06-22-2017 at 11:06 AM.. |
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06-22-2017, 09:52 AM | #77 | ||
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06-22-2017, 10:33 AM | #78 | |
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All in jest dude.....
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06-22-2017, 10:37 AM | #79 |
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What about antilock brakes and traction control? Torque Vectoring? Limited Slip Differentials?
Mike
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06-22-2017, 10:39 AM | #80 |
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So why all the arguments about manuals vs. DCTs for performance cars? Isn't it just a matter of personal preference? Clearly, the manufacturers of performance cars think DCTs are faster in most cases than their own manuals. Clearly these same manufacturers offer manuals for customers who feel they are more involving and fun to drive. And clearly the majority of performance car buyers are saying they don't want to shift anymore.
I've owned more than 40 cars with manual transmissions, and there's nothing more orgasmic than executing a perfect 3-2 downshift. But for my next purchase, I want to explore the technology of a DCT - when I'm not driving the car with the 6-speed manual sitting next to it in my garage. What's wrong with that? |
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06-22-2017, 10:50 AM | #81 |
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I was thinking about posting a similar question, but it looks like there is still a small gang of people who think a clutch pedal is vital which answers my question. I really can't believe people think a modern car that has auto/electronic/fake everything suits an archaic transmission. Why would you put a huge bottleneck in a high tech sports car, especially when the DCT is better in all other ways too. I just don't get it. The M2 was the first non manual car I have ever had, and I chose that so I would have the quickest version of it. If you want this "emotional connection" that you hear people go on about, surely you would buy a car with manual everything so it really is just you in control, and not the traction control and that M diff.
I have older performance cars with no driver aids and I love driving them. I love driving the M2 as well, but there is nothing comparable to a proper sports car from when DCTs weren't an option. The M2 does so much itself, including fake noise through the speakers and exhaust I don't like, but it would be no where near the experience of a proper manual car if it didn't have the DCT. It is like the difference between a surgeon's scalpel and a sledge hammer, they are both very effective but in very different ways. For me, the proper feel of a performance car was lost when the steering went electric so holding onto the rest is pointless. People need to move with the times, and just accept these changes. Or run an older car instead, have one along side your next auto M car. Here in the UK, I think it is about 95% DCT on the M4. Says it all really. |
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06-22-2017, 10:50 AM | #82 |
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06-22-2017, 10:55 AM | #83 |
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I get that MT cars make up a small percentage of overall automobile sales, I get that from a business/profitability standpoint it doesn't make sense for many automakers to continue offering manuals (because if it did they'd still be making them - that's just common sense), and I get that in the not too distant future a MT may no longer even be an option for new cars. I've accepted the reality that we live in.
However, right now, if the M2 did not come with a MT, I would not have gotten it. Why? Because to me a MT is more fun (even if it is slower and represents yesterday's technology) and in 2017 I still have the option of getting a MT. If the M2 was DCT only, I would have purchased a Cayman or Cayman S - yes even with the 4 cylinder. I completely respect those who favor DCT as well, and I can understand their position. I believe it should be possible to understand and respect both sides of this argument, even if one strongly prefers one over the other. No need to bash the other side. Last edited by IS+1; 06-22-2017 at 11:03 AM.. |
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06-22-2017, 11:32 AM | #84 |
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I think the companies who do manufacture the transmission for the auto industry do pretty high volume over all. Perhaps having a zillion different transmission choices for each car manufacturer is not cost effective, but sharing the same transmission among many cars would be cost effective. It's not like they are making 5 manual transmission and 50 million automatics. So I think it comes down to actual customer preference and believe BMW will still offer a manual as long as people are buying them. And from what I have seen here and elsewhere, the desire for a manual transmission is not dead.
Mike
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06-22-2017, 11:36 AM | #85 | ||
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Overall the M2 is a good car I think they salvaged the M brand with it to a degree but I doubt it will last. I'm keeping the E92 M3 forever because well...read above. Porsche offers almost every sports car it makes in manual in addition to their brilliant PDK and I think Porsche execs are far more connected and in touch with their customers, their history and their value proposition. Argue away but is there really an argument? |
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06-22-2017, 12:00 PM | #86 |
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It's no longer a manual vs DCT argument. DCT is dead within a few years and the manual is for specialty nostalgia cars.
Torque converter ZF's are replacing both. Bummer |
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06-22-2017, 12:33 PM | #87 |
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06-22-2017, 01:03 PM | #88 | |
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