[SW19]

Originally Posted by cntzl

Since when has BMW been using the "Competition" name for their hard core track cars? The name you guys are looking for is "CS", " GTS", or "CSL" not "Competition" IMO.

Competition has always been used for the M3 ZCP package,starting with the E46 M3.It has always been an optional package.That is the problem with calling this car the M2 Competition.They shouldn’t have bothered with Competition and just left it as the M2.

[Who?]

Originally Posted by akkando

Who's the "us" in your comment? Customers for the M2C or previous M2 customers?

customers

didn't know we had 'sides'

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Nantucket

Competition has always been used for the M3 ZCP package,starting with the E46 M3.It has always been an optional package.That is the problem with calling this car the M2 Competition.They shouldn’t have bothered with Competition and just left it as the M2.

Yes and if you look at those examples you will see they usually include minor improvements over the Non-ZCP models. M3/M4 ZCP comes with slightly higher spring rates, new wheels, 20hp bump, and some other minor cosmetic changes. I don't remember seeing bigger brakes, completely different engine with a redesigned new front fascia etc. Maybe BMW decided to call it "Competition" because they thought the changes weren't too negligible to call it just "M2" again. I don't know the answer but saying this car won't be able to live up to its name is a bit unfair at this point. Anyways... I couldn't care less what they call it regardless. M2, M2 Competition, M2 ExtraWeight, M2 Extra120lbs are good with me. I'm planning to remove the badge eventually.

Edit: In previous comments, it was implied that the name "competition" was too strong for this car and it should be used on a car that is purely track focused, hence my earlier comments about the name "Competition" not being necessarily associated with hard core track cars in BMW's book.

[Aapparition90]

Originally Posted by Wilsm2

I have driven both m4 and comp, the comp seats are not comfortable, my Lower back hurts after an hour, the standard seat is more comfortable. You are missing what I'm saying.

The new M2 is a competition with standard M4 seats.

I might be due to different regions but i still don't really understand what your implying , what are you not happy about in the new m2 comp pack seats ?
1 - The cutouts ? LOl
2- The lower quality leather used ?

[Wilsm2]

Originally Posted by Aapparition90

I might be due to different regions but i still don't really understand what your implying , what are you not happy about in the new m2 comp pack seats ?
1 - The cutouts ? LOl
2- The lower quality leather used ?

The new M2 uses the name competition, so you assume it would be comp spec.

If they created an all new seat for the M2C it would be more except able, all they have done is use the standard seat from the M4 and added a little colour.

If you look pass the name it's an updated M2 not a competition. We all know if the n55 could pass the emissions the car would be very different all the extras would be standard with the s55 and there would be a standard M2 with the n55, don't get me wrong it would be a higher price.

[eatingpizzainthef87rules]

Originally Posted by cntzl

What do you know about the M2C that we don't know aside from the weight increase? How do you know it won't live up to its name? Have you driven one on the street or a track? You really think this car will handle and perform worse than outgoing M2 because it weighs 120lbs more? With the same mentality ZL1 1LE at 4000lbs or GT350R at 3700 lbs would be the worst high performance cars of all time but guess what? Not only they murder any BMW on track, they also run circles around many supercars as well. Saying it won't live up to its name while only having the extra weight as your basis and having not seen single review or driven the car yet just shows how biased you are. I'm still patiently waiting for reviews to drop before making any bold claims.

There is a massive difference between an overall weight increase vs. 125lbs directly over the nose of a car - troll on with that logic - I own a gt350 and it may turn fast lap times but it feels very heavy as well.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by bovairdf87

There is a massive difference between an overall weight increase vs. 125lbs directly over the nose of a car - troll on with that logic - I own a gt350 and it may turn fast lap times but it feels very heavy as well.

No shit Sherlock! No one is denying that the added weight is in the front. The whole point is we'll see how good of a job BMW did hiding the extra weight (if there is really that much weight difference). In theory, stuffing up an extra 120lbs in the engine bay would throw off the balance but claiming that BMW would do that without any further tweaking and optimizations is just silly. Btw, I would take GT350 over any BMW including your lightweight M2 as well if it didn't have major cosmetic build quality issues.

[eatingpizzainthef87rules]

Originally Posted by cntzl

No shit Sherlock! No one is denying that the added weight is in the front. The whole point is we'll see how good of a job BMW did hiding the extra weight (if there is really that much weight difference). In theory, stuffing up an extra 120lbs in the engine bay would throw off the balance but claiming that BMW would do that without any further tweaking and optimizations is just silly. Btw, I would take GT350 over any BMW including your lightweight M2 as well if it didn't have major cosmetic build quality issues.

The m2 is a much better car, as I own both so it’s easy to compare - and without ballast / chassis modifications you can not easily ‘hide weight’ so you call it when it is positioned over the nose up high.

I am sure they tweaked the dampers / spring rates / steering to accommodate but you will always feel weight no matter what you do in certain aspects of track driving.

Do you build race cars for a living or do you just speculate?

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by bovairdf87

The m2 is a much better car, as I own both so it’s easy to compare - and without ballast / chassis modifications you can not easily ‘hide weight’ so you call it when it is positioned over the nose up high.

I am sure they tweaked the dampers / spring rates / steering to accommodate but you will always feel weight no matter what you do in certain aspects of track driving.

Do you build race cars for a living or do you just speculate?

I don't build race cars, I just track my cars for fun. As I said million times already in these threads, I will wait for the reviews. Also, what is much better or perfect for you may not be the same for someone else. M2 is a great car but it doesn't serve my needs. I want a car that is not only very good at track duty but also on the street as well. I track 10-12 times a year and the rest of my driving is on the street where N55 M2 doesn't do it for me. That's why I went with M4 Comp to begin with. M2 Comp has chance to be a more nimble car than my M4 thanks to its size while still being a rocket with a simple M4 CS flash tune.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Wilsm2

The new M2 uses the name competition, so you assume it would be comp spec.

If they created an all new seat for the M2C it would be more except able, all they have done is use the standard seat from the M4 and added a little colour.

If you look pass the name it's an updated M2 not a competition. We all know if the n55 could pass the emissions the car would be very different all the extras would be standard with the s55 and there would be a standard M2 with the n55, don't get me wrong it would be a higher price.

You're way off. This is beyond competition pack changes. Brand new front bumper, new engine with likely a lot more than 40hp bump, a bunch of torque, higher redline, a cheap software tune a way from fully tuned s55 at some ridiculous hp, better cooling, ability to configure drive modes and save them the way you want, optional bigger brakes, carbon strut.

This makes a competition pack look like a pathetic rip off relative to a Competition series car.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by jhall1957

I'm seriously thinking of letting my M2C position go and just keeping the M2PE I have. Figure I save a bit of money and can always increase HP and have better sounding car.

love the manual seats in the PE. That is so rare.. I would keep it as well.

[2M]

Originally Posted by Twt

I am in the same position...first on the list but will probably pass and work on my 17. I was hoping they would follow up on the special lightweight edition from 17 with lighter seats, carbon roof , etc. Instesd it's more gran tourer. I will anxiously await the track testing to see if it's really "better".

I live in NYC and the M2 has more than enough power for me. I actually drive it pretty conservatively most of the time due to city conditions. If I ever want more power just because, I will add a dinan tune and a dp, but I do not see myself getting a comp to seek any more power. If anything I am more attracted to the current M2 because of its weight and balance.

[Chako]

Originally Posted by bovairdf87

The m2 is a much better car, as I own both so it’s easy to compare - and without ballast / chassis modifications you can not easily ‘hide weight’ so you call it when it is positioned over the nose up high.

I am sure they tweaked the dampers / spring rates / steering to accommodate but you will always feel weight no matter what you do in certain aspects of track driving.

Do you build race cars for a living or do you just speculate?

The M2 is not better than the GT350 in most objective racing measures. It's just subjectively better in your condescending opinion. (Both are great at what they're designed for)

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Chako

The M2 is not better than the GT350 in most objective racing measures. It's just subjectively better in your condescending opinion. (Both are great at what they're designed for)

lol

[chris719]

Originally Posted by bovairdf87

The m2 is a much better car, as I own both so it’s easy to compare - and without ballast / chassis modifications you can not easily ‘hide weight’ so you call it when it is positioned over the nose up high.

I am sure they tweaked the dampers / spring rates / steering to accommodate but you will always feel weight no matter what you do in certain aspects of track driving.

Do you build race cars for a living or do you just speculate?

Most BMW M cars are street cars. If you are seriously upset over 120 lbs added to a 3400-3500 lb car based on a sedan chassis with back seats, leather, and HK audio I'm not sure I can agree in light of what you gain for that 120 lbs. It's not a CSL or GTS. It's not a true sports car. I would have to question the motives of anyone who buys an M2 to use as a dedicated track car. Is 120 lbs really going to ruin your weekend warrior experience?

I'd like to see the doubters drive them back to back anyway. If you want to take the argument to the extreme, just buy a 228i and then you'll have much less weight over the nose.

FWIW I have no dog in this fight because I do not own either car and don't plan to in the immediate future.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by chris719

Most BMW M cars are street cars. If you are seriously upset over 120 lbs added to a 3400-3500 lb car based on a sedan chassis with back seats, leather, and HK audio I'm not sure I can agree in light of what you gain for that 120 lbs. It's not a CSL or GTS. It's not a true sports car. I would have to question the motives of anyone who buys an M2 to use as a dedicated track car. Is 120 lbs really going to ruin your weekend warrior experience?

I'd like to see the doubters drive them back to back anyway. If you want to take the argument to the extreme, just buy a 228i and then you'll have much less weight over the nose.

FWIW I have no dog in this fight because I do not own either car and don't plan to in the immediate future.

I hear you .. but isn't it odd that bmw produces two 3600 lb coupes that have the same drivetrain ?

Personally , I have NEVER wanted a 3600 lb coupe .. so yes the added weight annoys the shit out of me.

My e84 X1 is lighter and carries 5 people and more stuff.

I'm not sure why you would " question the motives " of someone using the M2 as a track car ... it's a $55k sports car.. that's pretty cheap.


Modified M2 hanging with track spec Z06 at the ring https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1305753

Also...

Originally Posted by TYSP33D

Guys I know I let this die - it's hard building a racecar no one has ever done before, other people's race cars and having a life . I promise a comprehensive rewrite in the next 2 weeks with full documentation but here is something to hold you over and let you know I didn't give up

@tysp33d already has a full on RACE CAR build thread... so clearly some people ARE making the M2 into a dedicated track car..

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1452618