[Benef1cient]

In general this debate of N55 vs S55 or LCI vs Competition comes down to your personal preference, there is no bad choice here. just take what you feel is better for you and go with it. I think the 400 HP RWD car is enough for me for now to learn and develop as a driver. Even my 230 HP GTI is a lot of fun and enough for the road.

I had a kind of a breakthrough last year.
I was one of those that when bought something already thought about the next thing after - this robbed me of the enjoyment about the things I had.
When I got my GTI after a year I already started thinking about what's next. Putting deposits for the next GT4 and M2 Competiton. Then I thought to myself - take a step back, develop your skills and enjoy what you already have, otherwise this craving is going to kill all your fun. My GF made me aware of this which I thank her for a lot as I'm much happier now enjoying my GTI wherever I can. Not looking with envy but with appreciation to other cars on the road

I'm ordering N55 M2 LCI this or the next week with manual and I'll keep it for a long time, I'll mod the car to my liking and make it my treasured love like John Wick with his '69 Mustang

[Benef1cient]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Not sure I understand these posts saying part of the reason there was a shift to S55 is emissions. I cannot find any reference saying S55 has lower emissions than N55. Anyone posting this have a link?

There is no direct link, just our presumptions. Maybe far-fetched maybe not who knows

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Not sure I understand these posts saying part of the reason there was a shift to S55 is emissions. I cannot find any reference saying S55 has lower emissions than N55. Anyone posting this have a link?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...missions-test/

Highly likely thy are installing that particulate filter also in the m2. The n55 probably has similar emissions as the s55 but not worth the effort to install the filter for just one car model.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...missions-test/

Exactly! The link you provided shows the S55 with 194g/km. Other references show the N55 with 185 to 199 g/km (depending on transmission)... with the M4 at 194 to 197 and the M3 at 194 to 209 g/km. Where is the savings?

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Exactly! The link you provided shows the S55 with 194g/km. Other references show the N55 with 185 to 199 g/km (depending on transmission)... with the M4 at 194 to 197 and the M3 at 194 to 209 g/km. Where is the savings?

It's particulate level which isn't listed in the engine specs by Bmw.

[Benef1cient]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

It's particulate level which isn't listed in the engine specs by Bmw.

WLTP: The Worldwide harmonized Light vehicles Test Procedure (WLTP) and the corresponding Test Cycle (WLTC) [3635][3636] replaced the NEDC procedure. The transition from NEDC to WLTC occurs over the following schedule:
September 2017—WLTP type approval testing is introduced for new car types. Cars approved using the old NEDC test can still be sold.
September 2018—All new vehicles must be certified according to the WLTP test procedure.
January 2019—All cars at dealerships should have WLTP-CO2 values only (with some exceptions for a limited number of vehicles in stock). National governments should adjust vehicle taxation and fiscal incentives to WLTP values.

Source: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php

That's why N55 can be sold until Sep 2018 without additional tax, later on it wouldn't comply to the new WLTP testing procedure commencing from Sep 2018 without a particle filter which is pointless to R&D at this point thus faster switch to S55 where it's feasible (more cars using it).

About the tax/fines:

Excess Emissions Premium. Manufacturers who miss their average CO2 targets are subject to penalties:

From 2012 to 2018, the penalties are €5 per vehicle for the first g/km of CO2; €15 for the second gram; €25 for the third gram; €95 from the fourth gram onwards.
From 2019, manufacturers will pay €95 for each g/km exceeding the target.

Source: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ghg.php

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

Source: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php

That's why N55 can be sold until Sep 2018 without additional tax, later on it wouldn't comply to the new WLTP testing procedure commencing from Sep 2018 without a particle filter which is pointless to R&D at this point thus faster switch to S55 where it's feasible (more cars using it).

About the tax/fines:

Source: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ghg.php

Man that S55 is going to be a gift to those of you who waited.... wow

[Benef1cient]

Originally Posted by akkando

Man that S55 is going to be a gift to those of you who waited.... wow

Well DPFs are one of the most annoying inventions in emission control, that's what I hear from diesel owners at least. One of the reasons that I'm buying LCI instead of waiting for Comp.
There are shops around that specialise in cutting and programming them out even.

[Bluenose-2er]

So the S55 and N55 are pretty much the same CO2 emissions, and likely the same particulate emissions, but need a DPF to pass the new tests and they are willing to add one for the S55 but not for the N55?

[qnet]

I just closed the deal on my M2 and am pretty psyched right now!! I will be picking it up two weeks from today at the performance center.

Sort of on the subject, one thing I wanted to mention is something noticed at the dealership. The BMW genius was showing me around an M2 they had there. The M2 exhaust was not as nice sounding as the M3 exhaust that he showed me. The M2 exhaust sounded slightly more aggressive than I remember my M235i stock exhaust. It was nice, but didn't blow me away. He then showed me an M3 and it was much more deeper and aggressive sounding, and sounded pretty good IMO. Both times, he put the cars in sport-mode.

When we listened to the M2 I was in the driver's seat, and the M3 he was. I'm not sure if that had any effect on how I heard it. I just thought that was interesting, since I've read that the M2 exhaust sounded better than the F80/82. The M2 didn't have the PCI done on it and still had all the white plastic stuff on it . I wonder if it's because the M2 wasn't broke in, because I remember it not being that loud when I test drove an it almost a year ago.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

Source: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php

That's why N55 can be sold until Sep 2018 without additional tax, later on it wouldn't comply to the new WLTP testing procedure commencing from Sep 2018 without a particle filter which is pointless to R&D at this point thus faster switch to S55 where it's feasible (more cars using it).

About the tax/fines:

Source: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ghg.php

No problem, just hire some of those VW engineers who didn't survive dieselgate.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by qnet

I just closed the deal on my M2 and am pretty psyched right now!! I will be picking it up two weeks from today at the performance center.

Sort of on the subject, one thing I wanted to mention is something noticed at the dealership. The BMW genius was showing me around an M2 they had there. The M2 exhaust was not as nice sounding as the M3 exhaust that he showed me. The M2 exhaust sounded slightly more aggressive than I remember my M235i stock exhaust. It was nice, but didn't blow me away. He then showed me an M3 and it was much more deeper and aggressive sounding, and sounded pretty good IMO. Both times, he put the cars in sport-mode.

When we listened to the M2 I was in the driver's seat, and the M3 he was. I'm not sure if that had any effect on how I heard it. I just thought that was interesting, since I've read that the M2 exhaust sounded better than the F80/82. The M2 didn't have the PCI done on it and still had all the white plastic stuff on it . I wonder if it's because the M2 wasn't broke in, because I remember it not being that loud when I test drove an it almost a year ago.

In both cases you might have been hearing the ASD and not much of the exhaust.

[qnet]

Originally Posted by akkando

In both cases you might have been hearing the ASD and not much of the exhaust.

You may be right, I don't know. We just revved the cars a little and didn't drive them. It was done with the windows down. The M3 did sound better IMO either way. I haven't driven a BMW since my M235i almost a year ago. One thing I notice is the ASD was a lot more pronounced on my Focus RS than it was on the bimmers. I actually don't mind ASD.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by qnet

I just closed the deal on my M2 and am pretty psyched right now!! I will be picking it up two weeks from today at the performance center.

Sort of on the subject, one thing I wanted to mention is something noticed at the dealership. The BMW genius was showing me around an M2 they had there. The M2 exhaust was not as nice sounding as the M3 exhaust that he showed me. The M2 exhaust sounded slightly more aggressive than I remember my M235i stock exhaust. It was nice, but didn't blow me away. He then showed me an M3 and it was much more deeper and aggressive sounding, and sounded pretty good IMO. Both times, he put the cars in sport-mode.

When we listened to the M2 I was in the driver's seat, and the M3 he was. I'm not sure if that had any effect on how I heard it. I just thought that was interesting, since I've read that the M2 exhaust sounded better than the F80/82. The M2 didn't have the PCI done on it and still had all the white plastic stuff on it . I wonder if it's because the M2 wasn't broke in, because I remember it not being that loud when I test drove an it almost a year ago.

Did the M3 have MPE? No way an M3 stock sounds better than a M2 stock. Not even sure an M3 with MPE would sound better than an M2 stock (louder yes, but not better) - but might be a matter of taste I guess.

[qnet]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Did the M3 have MPE? No way an M3 stock sounds better than a M2 stock. Not even sure an M3 with MPE would sound better than an M2 stock (louder yes, but not better) - but might be a matter of taste I guess.

I don't believe it did. It may be a matter of taste like you said. I've never had an issue with the M3 exhaust like many on here. It was a 2018, maybe they've made some improvements.

The M3 did have black tips (non carbon fiber). I don't know much about the MPE on those models so maybe it was.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Originally Posted by qnet

I don't believe it did. It may be a matter of taste like you said. I've never had an issue with the M3 exhaust like many on here. It was a 2018, maybe they've made some improvements.

The M3 did have black tips (non carbon fiber). I don't know much about the MPE on those models so maybe it was.

M3/4 stock did not have MPE stock, it had to be a purchased add on unless it was the competition pack. The ZCP cars did have over run programed in the mapping that helped the aggressiveness of the sound but it still sounded like a buzzz saw

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by akkando

Man that S55 is going to be a gift to those of you who waited.... wow

Going to be a long wait though. Release/allocation/delivery. Better to be driving a car that is 95% the same than waiting for the next best thing IMO.

I am number one at my dealer and Will get a competition when I can, but would not trade anything for ED with a ‘civic’ M2 and over a year of enjoying it.

FWIW, for people not tracking it, not sure the extra ponies will be that much more enjoyable as a DD. JMO.

[DanG]

I love my M2 and I don’t think that the extra horse power is useful unless you expect to do a lot of track days. My M2 is already a beast on the streets.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by qnet

My upcoming M2 will be one of the last N55's I suppose. I don't really care now, but I'm wondering why BMW just didn't put a detuned S55 in the M2 from the beginning. This question I'm sure has been asked on this forum in some form before.

I like their cars but they just keep nickel and diming people with all the configuration changes in such a short period of time. The M2 has only been out since 2016 and this, if true; will be the third change. It's almost like they didn't expect the popularity of the M2 to be what it is, and are now capitalizing on it.

From a business standpoint, I guess I don't blame them. I just hate to see everyone arguing and debating over this so much because I'm sure there are some who wish BMW hadn't done this.

Head Gasket issue aside, on the Focus RS forum there isn't nearly as much, if any; discussion about the 2018 RS LE having some of the things the original RS doesn't have, and a lot of those guys are just as hardcore as some of you.

It's just my opinion and observation, but a lot of the RS owners seem genuinely more happy & content with their purchase than a lot you. I actually sold some RS parts to a guy who had an M2 ,that he sold to his brother; and bought an RS.

Ummmm....yes, and now Ford is discontinuing the RS.

[3geekfamily]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

So the S55 and N55 are pretty much the same CO2 emissions, and likely the same particulate emissions, but need a DPF to pass the new tests and they are willing to add one for the S55 but not for the N55?

Correct, the 'emissions' argument is not specifically talking about comparing the N55 vs S55 - rather, talking about the new particulate filter.

Here's the thing - it doesn't make sense to engineer a new solution for an engine that is on its way out. The M2 is the last car running the N55. The M4/M4 convertible are still going for a few more years, and the S55 will be around for that duration. It makes more sense to do something that the car was already potentially engineered for the idea of - dropping in the S55 - and letting the N55 go.

It makes more sense to go with the longer-term solution with the S55, because there is going to be less engineering involved for the particulate filter, especially if the S55 was already going to make its way into the M2 (via a CS model, etc), regardless. If they drop the N55 completely, then they only have to engineer one particulate filter (for the S55), vs 2 (N55 and S55).

Of course, all of this is purely speculation at this point - as is virtually anything else you'll hear on the forums until Beijing - but it makes perfect sense.

Personally, I have an order in with a dealer for a standard M2 right now, because I prefer the sound of the N55, like many, and because I'm afraid that the torque curve on the S55 is going to imbalance the car. I'm hoping that I'll be able to get one with final quarter allocations.

If I can't, no big deal. I don't want to wait an extra few months, but I definitely wouldn't mind getting the M2 Competition at all - and might even prefer it - but I do like the existing car an awful lot, and I'm afraid of the unknowns with the Competition. The front end (I'm concerned about the huge grills looking silly), the overall balance of the car, suspension stiffness vs the base M2, etc - they're all up in the air right now, and while I know they'll nail it and make it an awesome car, that doesn't mean it will be as passable of a daily driver.

I certainly wouldn't throw it out of bed for eating cookies, though.

[Ian ///M]

The rhetoric about this topic has changed ALOT over the last few months I see. It went from planned obsolescence to personal preference as soon as the audio from the CS came out

[Bt12]

Originally Posted by Ian ///M

The rhetoric about this topic has changed ALOT over the last few months I see. It went from planned obsolescence to personal preference as soon as the audio from the CS came out

Fickle crowd