[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

The 991.1 GT3 was claimed round the 7:30 mark. The .2 was a big sea change just like the .2 GT3 RS. Theres vids of stock m235i's doing 7:5X with good drivers, so they're obviously under representing the times the M2C will be capable of.

Yes, they dumb down the lap time achievement is what I am not pleased about.

Hopefully an independent testing by one of the magazines will show what it is capable of.

[gtr]

Now I’m not sure if I should trade in my civic type r for this.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Yes, they dumb down the lap time achievement is what I am not pleased about.

Hopefully an independent testing by one of the magazines will show what it is capable of.

Sport Auto will surely do a Supertest.

[Yiruna]

I don't care for these grandiose shows of agility, which is rather a case of driver ability than inherent skill from the car.

I just want a hot lap video of the M2 Comp around the nurburgring. I know that a lap time isn't a measure of success, I just want to see how well it performs under track conditions. Please.

[hellrotm]

SportAuto will most likely do a Supertest. Randy Pobst will give his insight during Motor Trend instrument test. Those videos will come in next few months. Along with others. BMW has stated their marketing ring time.

[Yiruna]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

SportAuto will most likely do a Supertest. Randy Pobst will give his insight during Motor Trend instrument test. Those videos will come in next few months. Along with others. BMW has stated their marketing ring time.

I know they stated their time, but I'd like a video to see how it handles. Plus I have this feeling it's just an estimated time rather than a tested time.

[Robin_NL]

7:54 BMW claimed

Awaiting Sportauto with Chritian Gebhard/Uwe Sener too.

I guess 7:56 /7:57



Cheers
Robin

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Yiruna

I know they stated their time, but I'd like a video to see how it handles. Plus I have this feeling it's just an estimated time rather than a tested time.

No, they test stuff overthere, trust me

OG M2 had 7:58 marketing laptime but there were several 7:52 in it as well(BMW claimed) but 7:58 was a laptime not in M3/4s way and 'easily been done on a dry closed NS for several laps' . Also BMW claimed(engineers)

So I guess there can be a sub 7:50 lap (M2C) but marketingwise 7:54 is better

Cheers
Robin

[Jenius]

Most likely slower than 718 Cayman S around the track where it did 7:47.. more so with the GTS I am guessing.

7:5x kind of time sound about right I think.

[Artemis]

See this BMW M video at 01:33: M-DCT M2C Nürburgring Nordschleife laptime = 07:54.

[FSU_Logan]

Sandbagging, maybe?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by FSU_Logan

Sandbagging, maybe?

I don't think so really. There is no reason on paper that it should perform better than the M3/M4 ZCP on the ring. It has less power, slightly more or at least equivalent weight, and borrows so many of the same chassis and suspension components. Not sure if it comes into play on the ring, but I would also believe the increased drag from the M2's shape hurts acceleration at high speeds.

After driving OG M2 and M3/M4 ZCP back-to-back at M school I felt like you would definitely be faster in the M3/M4 except maybe in autocross. The M2 had more eagerness on turn-in and was more playful, but the M3/M4 felt more stable and faster.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

T Theres vids of stock m235i's doing 7:5X with good drivers, so they're obviously under representing the times the M2C will be capable of.

I thinks so, but an M235i stock has never achieved a real 'official' Nordschleife laptime below 8:00.

This is Moran Gott, he now(also) drives the Apex Schirmer F80 M3 'Ringtaxi' overthere, you probably know him from Boosted Boris/Misha Charoudin's Youtube channel auto anything on the Nürburgring.

He is fast, but this is BTG(Bridge to Gantry) so that's a Touristenfahrten lap, meaning ad at least 25 seconds(even more in general)

And he is running DZ03 which is a semi afaik.

But he is a fast and consistent driver:

And here a video from a few months ago, was already in the M2 section. Moran driving the M2 and pushing an F80

Bottomline, stock sporty cars don't get under 8:00 very quickly officially overthere. It's also about the tyres(understatement) as already stated in this thread on page 1 somewhere. Civic R, Seat Cupra R, Megane RS, Golf R whatever: They are all just as fast or faster than M2 but those are also claimed manufacturer times with 'specially prepared' (sort of) vehicles(rollcage/tyres etc) and when guys from Sportauto carmag test those 'same' cars , they're not(nowhere) as fast as claimed...
M2 was 7:58 (BMW claimed) and 8:01 on a cold moist (ish) track driven by Gebhard from Sportauto.

Bottomline 2, BMW underrates their Nordschleife laptimes. Or you can say they are rather realistic, which is a good thing.
As I stated I think <7:50 was in it for M2C on PSS.

Cheers
Robin

[gtr]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Bottomline 2, BMW underrates their Nordschleife laptimes. Or you can say they are rather realistic, which is a good thing.
As I stated I think <7:50 was in it for M2C on PSS.

So after 15 years, the old less horsepower M3csl is still the faster car?

Porsche for example went from 7:33 in 2010 to 6:56.4 minute for the 2019 GT3RS model.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by gtr

So after 15 years, the old less horsepower M3csl is still the faster car?

Porsche for example went from 7:33 in 2010 to 6:56.4 minute for the 2019 GT3RS model.

You're right:
1) it was equipped with semis on a dry track. Try and drive a CSL 24/7 on those in also moist conditions. Good luck
2) M3 CSL is probably better comparable with M3/4(CS/Competition/GTS) than with M2/C don't you agree? Take a look at the modern M3/4 laptimes and your statement is valid too.
M3 CSL was the most special M3 at that time. M4 GTS 7:28....

This is my mate member @Advevo (M2C on order) driving the 1M:

Cheers
Robin

[M-Pilot]

We still don't have an official Nurburgring time for M3/M4 ZCP but I just want to point out that CS (7:38) and GTS (7:28) models were on R compund tires (Cup 2s) compared to Base M4 (7:52) and M2C (7:54) both were running on street tires (PSS). Cup 2s over PSS can make 10+ sec difference at Nordschleife IMO.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by cntzl

We still don't have an official Nurburgring time for M3/M4 ZCP but I just want to point out that CS (7:38) and GTS (7:28) models were on R compund tires (Cup 2s) compared to Base M4 (7:52) and M2C (7:54) both were running on street tires (PSS). Cup 2s over PSS can make 10+ sec difference at Nordschleife IMO.

Didn't Sportauto have a NS laptime of 7:52 for the regular M4?
Distract 4 seconds for ZCP/Competition, just like M2 vs M2C and we have 7:48 which is exactly 10s slower than CS( PSS vs Cup 2)

Cheers
Robin

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by chris719

I don't think so really. There is no reason on paper that it should perform better than the M3/M4 ZCP on the ring. It has less power, slightly more or at least equivalent weight, and borrows so many of the same chassis and suspension components. Not sure if it comes into play on the ring, but I would also believe the increased drag from the M2's shape hurts acceleration at high speeds.

After driving OG M2 and M3/M4 ZCP back-to-back at M school I felt like you would definitely be faster in the M3/M4 except maybe in autocross. The M2 had more eagerness on turn-in and was more playful, but the M3/M4 felt more stable and faster.

That's the M2 OG you are comparing to though.

Paul Horrell from Top Gear tested the M2C and M4CS within hours and found that the CS's handling is not as well sorted as the M2C..."unpredictable at the back end and short of feel at the front"

The verdict is still out there somewhere....

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

That's the M2 OG you are comparing to though.

Paul Horrell from Top Gear tested the M2C and M4CS within hours and found that the CS's handling is not as well sorted as the M2C..."unpredictable at the back end and short of feel at the front"

The verdict is still out there somewhere....

I had read from other reviews the CS was more sorted than that review claimed. Keep in mind the CS makes 55 more HP than M2C, so it is natural that it would be easier to spin the rears. It's less predictable because it is faster; it makes more power and has wider tires that are also stickier MPSC2. Part of why the M2 is friendlier I am sure is the reduced grip from the tires, even compared to standard M3/M4 ZCP (245/265 vs 265/285).

Every point I listed applies to the M2C as well. The M2C does not have any additional grip over the OG M2 and will probably be less predictable at the rear unless they really choke the engine output at low RPM. A scan of the parts numbers show there are no suspension changes, no tire changes. Only a front strut brace that I am sure does not affect the grip of the rear tires. The M2C just won't be faster than an M4 ZCP (nevermind CS) on a big track like the ring.

I love the M2 and M2C but I just don't see from an objective standpoint how it could beat any of the M4s, except a pre-ZCP car, on a big track. Maybe it has a shot on something tight like Hockenheim Short.

Overall though I wouldn't be concerned about laptimes with BMWs. BMW's recent lack of focus on maintaining contact with the tarmac has let GM, Ford, Alfa, etc. put them to shame with cheaper cars on the ring.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by chris719

Overall though I wouldn't be concerned about laptimes with BMWs. BMW's recent lack of focus on maintaining contact with the tarmac has let GM, Ford, Alfa, etc. put them to shame with cheaper cars on the ring.

In real life on the Nordschleife when tested by Sportauto/C Gebhard it's still the other way around, no worries.

Another example:
Let's take two real sportcars, Alfa 4C and Alpine Renault.

Both did 1:14.0 @ Hockenheim Short.

BMW's OG 'fatty' M2 did a 1:12.2 (faster than normal M4)

(Sportauto carmag)

Nordschleife laptimes have been food for discussion for almost decades(Viper vs Porsche, Nissan GTR vs Porsche, Lamborghini Huracan Performante, Aventador SV whatever) etc


I know one thing: BMW's claims are in general more real life proof than other manufacturer's claims even if they don't look that fast at a first glance.

Cheers
Robin

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

In real life on the Nordschleife when tested by Sportauto/C Gebhard it's still the other way around, no worries.

Another example:
Let's take two real sportcars, Alfa 4C and Alpine Renault.

Both did 1:14.0 @ Hockenheim Short.

BMW's OG 'fatty' M2 did a 1:12.2 (faster than normal M4)

(Sportauto carmag)

Nordschleife laptimes have been food for discussion for almost decades(Viper vs Porsche, Nissan GTR vs Porsche, Lamborghini Huracan Performante, Aventador SV whatever) etc


I know one thing: BMW's claims are in general more real life proof than other manufacturer's claims even if they don't look that fast at a first glance.

Cheers
Robin

Even if some of the times that GM publishes are aggressive, it's still getting absolutely destroyed by various Camaros etc that are cheaper. Camaro SS 1LE for $47k USD is faster than the M4 GTS at Laguna Seca, for example. For $70k you can get the ZL1, which has posted 7:16 on the ring.

I would not want to own one, but just saying, nothing BMW makes even comes all that close to the C7 Corvettes or Camaros.

[Vintage72]

I have a Camaro SS 1LE - it is one amazing handling track car and street machine. I never thought I would say it BUT GM did and amazing job on that car. However, it is not a BMW. Faster yes, fit, finish, style, etc. TO ME is much better on Bavarian machine. That said, I just acquired a M4GTS and cannot wait to run it at COTA and compare performance.

Also, remember that the Goodyear tire on the Camaro is VERY VERY STICKY. It is a much better track tire than the Michelin and more comparable to the MPSC2. Put a set of the MPSC2s on the M2C and then run the 8 miles - that would be more of a comparison time wise as you always need the same tires for apples to apples. Quite a bit of time would drop off, at least 10 seconds I would imagine.

The Camaro ZL1 1LE runs an even stickier R compound of that Goodyear. It is a straight up race tire. A whopper of a car but purely a track car an miserable on the street. The M2C is an awesome DD that you could track, but I would recommend an extra set of Forgelines with MPSC2s for dedicated track use.