[jzmundy]

Originally Posted by W///

Honestly, the only way you'll know is if you go drive one. You can never take what people say and assume you'll feel the same way.

My personal experience: First time I drove DCT (and e92 M3 as a matter of fact) was at the Performance Center. LOVED it. 2nd and 3rd time I drove DCT was again on e92 M3's, but this time in Munich. I rented them for a weekend each and went to have fun out in the Alps and city driving. I got bored of the transmission (not the car) after a couple of hours. When it was time to buy my own E92, it was 6MT or bust.

Is it as quick? No. Do I care? No. What's great for me is that even at 30 mph, you're still doing something with the car. It's more interactive for me. So even a small trip to the gas station turns into something special for me. I will admit though, sometimes it is nice to just drive my 4Runner with a 4spd auto and just relax after a long day at work, but on the M2, I'd go with a 6MT myself.

Yea yea, someone will ask me if I still prefer Walkmans over having music on my phone. Would you like a self driving car that can lap the Nurburgring while you sit as a passenger? Everyone is different. At the end of the day, you can't go wrong with either, you just have to know what you want.

My E36 M3 is a 5MT. My E92 M3 is a 6MT. My F80 will be a 6MT. There will be plenty of time to drive AT/DCT's when the MT's go bye bye.

P.S. Don't compromise just to get the M2 ASAP

Listen to this man.

My Z4 and 335 before my 1er were both 6MT. I loved them, AND the transmission. While I had my 335, I drove a good friend's 135 with DCT. I thought it was the coolest thing. The shifts were crisp and effortless, plus the D mode was smoother than any auto I had ever driven.

Fast forward 6 months and I had a 135 with DCT.

But today? I'm bored with the transmission. For me, it's a novelty that was lost after about the first year. I long for a clutch and will have a third pedal on my next car, F87 or otherwise.

[Aloha Joe]

Being that you never driven a manual or DCT, the DCT will be a step up from whatever you've driven before. Also, there's no way that any of us can predict whether you'll enjoy a manual or not, some do & some don't.

For me, I've driven manuals all my life, with the exception of my last car which had paddle shifters and dct. I bought it with the thought that it's faster which would add to the fun factor, and just in case my wife had to drive it, it wouldn't be a problem.

Here's the problem for me, while the dct is faster, it ended up taking away the joy of driving for me. But it all worked out great though, the Mrs who always liked that car, now drives it and loves it! I'm back in a manual and happy as a clam.

Not 100% sure whether I'll end up with the M2 or Porsche next, but you can bet that it will definitely be a manual.

[DrKevM5]

I've had both. I felt a bit disconnected with my last encounter with it, so I ordered my M3, then M5 with the 6sp. I visit the track often though, and DCT is magical when the car is driven in anger. Since this car will be my track demon it will have DCT.

[Artemis]

Reposting an earlier comment.

Conclusion: 6MT versus M-DCT is a bit like analog versus digital.

As a matter of fact, it's all pretty personal: related to personal circumstances and preferences. How do you plan to use your car ? What matters most for you ? If you're regularly stuck in tailbacks/queues: do you prefer more shifting comfort ? Do you prefer to work the gears or do you prefer Mister Robot (the gear's butler 'at your service') to flawlessly take care of that for you ?

Originally Posted by Artemis

We all know that it's a subjective, personal thing. Numerous, endless discussions about this topic at car forums.

True that it's nostalgia related, as technology inevitably evolves, improving situations.

But there is that peculiar physical and psychological aspect: rowing through gears with an MT feels more like as if the stick is an extension of your arm (and actually it is). Foot and arm operating in close harmony, as if you could touch - and stay in control over - the mechanics mounted onto the chassis. Getting you a little closer to experiencing the car's pulse (movements, bumps, clicks, vibrations, etc.). As a matter of fact, you got a more direct contact with the machinery - less 'sterile' compared to 'sending a message' to the machinery with a mini-moment paddle click or by delegating the whole shifting job to the robot for comfort purposes. And I don't mind that we can never match the speed, shifting perfection and consistency of the robot. No prizes to win. I consider it a benefit that one got to 'work' the machinery, that it requires more involvement. Though I fully understand that others will reply that AUTO/DCT is way more comfortable to operate.

Actually, I don't mind hearing someone gasping for breath when (s)he's singing a song or playing an instrument. I don't mind the artist and audience generating additional sounds that do not feature on the music score. To some extent all those additional sounds (noise?) could be edited out of the recording to achieve a more 'pure' sound, but I don't like that. For, often natural sounds feel more recognizable, more comfortable to connect to.

On the other hand, I do not mind embracing technology. If we adopt the same idea set out above to all sorts of assistance (warnings, DSC nannies, ABS, hill hold, navigation, comfort access, light and rain sensors, cruise control, high beam assist, power/memory seats, etc.) one could consider that you should leave it all off or out (if possible) to have a more 'pure' driving experience. Paradoxically, I don't mind those things (gadgets and gimmicks ?) to be on board and active. But as regards transmission, I'm an old skool MT aficionado.

[zenmaster]

Main annoyance I have with BMW auto is that it tends to hold RPM very high for 5-7 seconds even with no foot on throttle.

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Main annoyance I have with BMW auto is that it tends to hold RPM very high for 5-7 seconds even with no foot on throttle.

I noticed that on a test drive with an auto. Does the manual do this at all or does the engine speed drop instantly?

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by sprocket3

I noticed that on a test drive with an auto. Does the manual do this at all or does the engine speed drop instantly?

For the manual, the engine speed always follows the throttle position.

[RingMeister01]

M2=Fun
Fun=Manual

The end.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Main annoyance I have with BMW auto is that it tends to hold RPM very high for 5-7 seconds even with no foot on throttle.

Only if you drive the DCT in auto mode and no one should do that

OP... I have owned all MT cars and 2 M-DCT cars. Although I am getting my M2 in MT, it was a TOUGH choice. DCT is fun if you always drive it in manual mode... and super fast and responsive. Amazing really. I have never bored of my 2 DCT cars and don't think I ever will. I only ever drive in manual mode and treat it like a manual tranny.

The 6MT will be fun too... until you run up against DCT (or other auto car) at a stop light and they dust you (if that matters).

Bottom line is they are both great and I bet you won't regret either.

P.S. I'm also getting the launch car

[BruceM]

Rowed the gears on an 6MT M4 today, albeit not under load. Nice action. Could do with a little shorter throw, but it is fine. If the M2 is going to feel similar, that would be groovy.

[crqflier]

Best thing I've done to help with this decision was go to the BMW performance center and track a DCT M3. It was fast. Amazing transmission. Almost felt like cheating. But wasn't nearly as fun as 6mt.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Rowed the gears on an 6MT M4 today, albeit not under load. Nice action. Could do with a little shorter throw, but it is fine. If the M2 is going to feel similar, that would be groovy.

The M2 6MT is the same manual transmission that is used in the M3 and M4.Its a very good manual transmission.I really enjoyed driving the F80 M3 with the 6MT.Its way more fun to drive than the DCT IMO.The M2 is going to be a blast to drive with the 6MT.

[KevinM]

Wow, that is quite the dilemma. I'm a die-hard manual person, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but I'd hold out. I think DCT is great transmission, but since you wanted a manual, that is what you should get. Unless you are going for ultimate speed, I think this car is perfect for a manual in terms of size and power delivery. I've driven SMG 2, SMG 3, DCT for weeks at a time...I always end up missing a manual.

Of course, I'll buy a manual in everything I can until I can't...which will be soon.

GL with your decision!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Nantucket

The M2 6MT is the same manual transmission that is used in the M3 and M4. It's a very good manual transmission. I really enjoyed driving the F80 M3 with the 6MT. It's way more fun to drive than the DCT IMO. The M2 is going to be a blast to drive with the 6MT.

The 6MT version of the M3/M4 6MT features the K manual gearbox GS6-45BZ, which also featured inside the 1M (and some other series).

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by LinkF1

... You can clutch in, you can row the gears, but most of the magic happens with the clutch out motion. The Clutch Delay Valve and Auto-Rev features take control away from the driver. ...

Bingo. That's why I'll be ordering the DCT.
I'll be keeping my S2000 for when I want three-pedal action.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by LinkF1

With the new manual transmission taking that satisfaction away from you unless you have traction control turned off, there isn't that much for the driver to truly control anymore. You can clutch in, you can row the gears, but most of the magic happens with the clutch out motion. The Clutch Delay Valve and Auto-Rev features take control away from the driver.

I've not owned a car with a manual and a rev-match feature, but I'm kind of looking forward to it. I 've been driving manual transmissions for > 25 years but am still not the best at heel-and-toeing...the rev-match was one thing I did enjoy when driving SMG/DCT. But, I'll probably turn it off most of the time. I know that right now that can only be done in Sport+, but I can deal with that.

Is the CDV confirmed? I guess I should do my research first, but if you know please tell me. My E39 M5 did not have a CDV (unlike my E39 530), but my Z4M coupe did...I had it removed as soon as possible (which is easy to do).

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

People who have driven both, can you still have fun in the DCT?

Sure.
For me, DCT simplifies controlling the car, so, for example, going into a curve, I think of just steering, and gas peddle. I let the computer worry about when to shift. I'm engaged with the fun of the forces on the car.
With a 6 speed, my problem in a curve is a bit more complicated because I'm on steering, gas peddle, clutch and shifting. These added requirements, occupy more of my mind and reduce the awareness of the fun of the forces on the car. I need to add, though, that "fun" isn't the attraction of the 6 speed for me. The 6 speed is less about fun and more about the satisfaction derived from control.

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by fuddman

Sure.
For me, DCT simplifies controlling the car, so, for example, going into a curve, I think of just steering, and gas peddle. I let the computer worry about when to shift. I'm engaged with the fun of the forces on the car.
With a 6 speed, my problem in a curve is a bit more complicated because I'm on steering, gas peddle, clutch and shifting. These added requirements, occupy more of my mind and reduce the awareness of the fun of the forces on the car. I need to add, though, that "fun" isn't the attraction of the 6 speed for me. The 6 speed is less about fun and more about the satisfaction derived from control.

You should be done shifting before you're into the corner. If you're on all the pedals in the corner that's a problem.

[BruceM]

Does anybody have any idea what would happen on the M2 if you disabled the CDV?

[ORIGIN M.]

The Manual cannot hold Boost like the DCT does.

[W///]

Originally Posted by KevinM

I've not owned a car with a manual and a rev-match feature, but I'm kind of looking forward to it. I 've been driving manual transmissions for > 25 years but am still not the best at heel-and-toeing...the rev-match was one thing I did enjoy when driving SMG/DCT. But, I'll probably turn it off most of the time. I know that right now that can only be done in Sport+, but I can deal with that.

Is the CDV confirmed? I guess I should do my research first, but if you know please tell me. My E39 M5 did not have a CDV (unlike my E39 530), but my Z4M coupe did...I had it removed as soon as possible (which is easy to do).

The auto revmatch is actually kind of cool. I've used it on my friends GT4 (very useful when you are blasting through the mountains) and numerous M3/4. It definitely does have its place, and helps bridge the gap to DCT to a certain extent. I just wish there was an easier way to turn it off, especially on the M2.

And I don't know where the CDV came from, it wasn't on the e9x M3 and I've never heard it on the M3/4. It's a really nice transmission as is and even comes with the ZHP type knob already

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by W///

And I don't know where the CDV came from, it wasn't on the e9x M3 and I've never heard it on the M3/4. It's a really nice transmission as is and even comes with the ZHP type knob already

That is my bad, didn't realize they don't include that "feature" on the modern M-cars. I guess the E46 M3 was the last one in recent memory. I will edit my previous post.