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      01-23-2016, 05:04 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Update the temp gauge post (http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=28) with this picture.

Say no more.

I know you were already sarcastic, but quite sad if not pathetic in my opinion...
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      01-23-2016, 10:56 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
I just don't know why the same discounts from the dealers in the UK are not available from the dealers in Holland.
I am not entirely sure, but I suspect it has to do with government taxes.

Besides the regular sales tax of 21%, you also have to pay the carbon-emission based so-called BPM tax. So, if they want to sell any cars over here, I suspect BMW has to keep the price as low as possible to keep things financially attractive and at the same time high enough to still make a profit.

Here's the breakdown of an M2 Coupé with DCT (6MT is even more expensive due to high carbon emissions):
Base price: €51,056 ($55,133)
Sales tax (21%): €10.722 ($11,578)
BPM tax (based on 185 g/km emission): €18,212 ($19,666)
Total: €79,990 ($86,377)

Here's the official BMW NL site:


I'm only €10 off

I'm guessing they are already keeping their base price down, which I think leaves little room for any discounts.

Import usually yields little benefit, because you still have to pay the BPM tax as well as the fees to get the car in NL in the first place.

Feel free to correct me if I'm talking out of my arse here. This is mere speculation.
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      01-25-2016, 05:46 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets View Post
I am not entirely sure, but I suspect it has to do with government taxes.

Besides the regular sales tax of 21%, you also have to pay the carbon-emission based so-called BPM tax. So, if they want to sell any cars over here, I suspect BMW has to keep the price as low as possible to keep things financially attractive and at the same time high enough to still make a profit.

Here's the breakdown of an M2 Coupé with DCT (6MT is even more expensive due to high carbon emissions):
Base price: €51,056 ($55,133)
Sales tax (21%): €10.722 ($11,578)
BPM tax (based on 185 g/km emission): €18,212 ($19,666)
Total: €79,990 ($86,377)

Here's the official BMW NL site:


I'm only €10 off

I'm guessing they are already keeping their base price down, which I think leaves little room for any discounts.

Import usually yields little benefit, because you still have to pay the BPM tax as well as the fees to get the car in NL in the first place.

Feel free to correct me if I'm talking out of my arse here. This is mere speculation.

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately it doesn't make any sense. The point is that base prices (before any taxes) are NOT low. This is what I'm saying. See my earlier post comparing the base price of BMWs in Holland, the UK and Germany. So your suggestion that dealers have "little room for discounts" isn't true.

And I've lived in Maastricht for 15 years and I've bought six cars here, so I fully understand the taxes on Dutch cars.
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      01-26-2016, 05:37 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Thanks for the response. Unfortunately it doesn't make any sense. The point is that base prices (before any taxes) are NOT low. This is what I'm saying. See my earlier post comparing the base price of BMWs in Holland, the UK and Germany. So your suggestion that dealers have "little room for discounts" isn't true.

And I've lived in Maastricht for 15 years and I've bought six cars here, so I fully understand the taxes on Dutch cars.
Very strange! You seem to be spot-on:

Germany: Base price €5077 lower
UK: Base price €3591 lower
USA: Base price €3342 lower
Belgium: Base price €2427 lower

Out of curiousity, have you ever confronted a Dutch dealer with this?

Still I wonder how attractive it really is to buy a new car straight from Germany. OK, so even when you pay BPM, it would still be cheaper, but when importing you still also have to pay the sales tax of 21% over the already paid car (for which you already paid 19% german sales tax, unless you have a VAT number I believe...). Take import fees into account and you might as well just buy the car in the Netherlands. Any ideas on this?
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Last edited by wjjkoevoets; 01-26-2016 at 05:49 PM..
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      01-26-2016, 09:52 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets View Post
Very strange! You seem to be spot-on:

Germany: Base price €5077 lower
UK: Base price €3591 lower
USA: Base price €3342 lower
Belgium: Base price €2427 lower

Out of curiousity, have you ever confronted a Dutch dealer with this?

Still I wonder how attractive it really is to buy a new car straight from Germany. OK, so even when you pay BPM, it would still be cheaper, but when importing you still also have to pay the sales tax of 21% over the already paid car (for which you already paid 19% german sales tax, unless you have a VAT number I believe...). Take import fees into account and you might as well just buy the car in the Netherlands. Any ideas on this?
I've asked Dutch dealers about discounts, but none were forthcoming with anything of interest. I'm actually entitled to manufacturer's diplomatic sales progammes, which usually means around 10-15% off the net price, but even then, it's still cheaper for me to just go and buy a car in the UK. For example, I saved €20,000 on my R8 over the Dutch price, hence I went to the UK and ordered it there, paying in Pounds but getting a left hand drive car with km on the speedo.

The only reason I can think of is that Holland imports far less exotic BMWs such as M3s and M4s compared with the UK. If a dealer only has a small yearly allocation of M3s then I guess he doesn't have to worry about giving discounts because he'll be able to sell the number at full price. The UK is a large market for M cars so I guess dealers have to keep selling them and therefore has to discount them.
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      01-28-2016, 11:18 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjjkoevoets View Post
Very strange! You seem to be spot-on:

Germany: Base price €5077 lower
UK: Base price €3591 lower
USA: Base price €3342 lower
Belgium: Base price €2427 lower

Out of curiousity, have you ever confronted a Dutch dealer with this?

Still I wonder how attractive it really is to buy a new car straight from Germany. OK, so even when you pay BPM, it would still be cheaper, but when importing you still also have to pay the sales tax of 21% over the already paid car (for which you already paid 19% german sales tax, unless you have a VAT number I believe...). Take import fees into account and you might as well just buy the car in the Netherlands. Any ideas on this?
I tried to order my M2 in Germany, but the dealer told me that I had to have it registered in Germany for three months before I could take it abroad. I have to note that my car is a company car so that might play a role.

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      02-07-2016, 11:37 AM   #183
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If you want to buy a car in Germany, go next to the Luxembourgish border. Dealers are used to sell cars to strangers.
And they will provide you with temporary plates (red or yellow) in order to drive back legally and with an insurance.

You have to pay the full price, including the VAT (19%). When you import the car in your country, you will have to pay the VAT in your country (if the car has less than 6 months and 6.000km).
Then, with the proof of payment of the VAT in your country, you can ask a refund of the German VAT paid at the beginning of the process.

You can do it by yourself or ask an import/export company, but there are fees.
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      02-07-2016, 11:41 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philisme View Post
If you want to buy a car in Germany, go next to the Luxembourgish border. Dealers are used to sell cars to strangers.
And they will provide you with temporary plates (red or yellow) in order to drive back legally and with an insurance.

You have to pay the full price, including the VAT (19%). When you import the car in your country, you will have to pay the VAT in your country (if the car has less than 6 months and 6.000km).
Then, with the proof of payment of the VAT in your country, you can ask a refund of the German VAT paid at the beginning of the process.

You can do it by yourself or ask an import/export company, but there are fees.
Yup that is how it normally would work But if you have a company you can do it differently and do a payment and invoice without VAT. That is a possibility as well.

In the end I went for a delivery in CZ. It worked out well after some hassle, but ok

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      02-07-2016, 06:32 PM   #185
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I'm a company owner and I buy almost all my cars abroad (Luxembourg is so small).
I was explaining that for the average Joe. ;-)


Because of the one year delivery time for the M2, I finally bought a BMW 1M coupé. It holds so well his value... and there is an oil temp gauge

I'll see later if I switch to the M2/M3/M4.
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      02-08-2016, 08:30 AM   #186
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This doesn't make sense to me. The whole point of the EU, apart from letting in millions of immigrants, is that there is freedom of trade. So, if you live in one country and you buy in another, and both are in the EU, you pay VAT in the country you buy the car. After that you can register it in any other EU country without paying any more VAT. Of course then you have to pay any CO2 tax that applies on top. If, on the other hand, you buy a car outside the EU (eg. Switzerland) and bring it into the EU you then have to pay the VAT in the destination country and get a reimbursement in the country you bought it. If you are actually moving residence, say from Switzerland to France, you have to have had the car 6 (I think) months and driven it a certain number of kilometres, then you can import it without paying the French VAT but you are liable to pay the French CO2 tax. This only applies when you've been residing in Switzerland and are moving to France.
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