[Game]

Originally Posted by akkando

I think most people like it because big slapped on screens = new high tech. The more it looks like a Tesla, the more your mom thinks it's high tech.

I'm considering test drive of a g8x m right now and if I like it order one immediately in the hopes I don't get the new dash.

Where do you plan on finding one to test drive?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Game

Where do you plan on finding one to test drive?

That's a good question. I looked a week ago and there were some used ones within driving distance. I figured those were worth a shot. I might also check Turo. I better get on it.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

Auto Express says:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/2-...nd-launch-date

Sounds like the next M2 will have less power than the F87 CS plus an electric car's dash.

Diamond Hands-ing my F87 M2 CS, dead man's car. Will be the last great ICE, RWD manual BMW.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Sounds like the next M2 will have less power than the F87 CS plus an electric car's dash.

Diamond Hands-ing my F87 M2 CS, dead man's car. Will be the last great ICE, RWD manual BMW.

I wouldn't be so sure - I think G87 will likely be better than F87 CS just like G80 is better than F80 CS. That doesn't mean the CSs aren't special, F8X CSs are really the best version of F8X and will likely age much better than they were received due to the continued success of BMW CS products. Yes iDrive 8 is a MASSIVE turnoff and although it's bearable I wouldn't call G87 pretty, but I think there's a lot to look forward to in terms of a drivers package with G87.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Sounds like the next M2 will have less power than the F87 CS plus an electric car's dash.

Diamond Hands-ing my F87 M2 CS, dead man's car. Will be the last great ICE, RWD manual BMW.

I mean they'll make a CS and probably a CSL of the new one. Not sure if those will get a stick though.

[Straight6Dave]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Sounds like the next M2 will have less power than the F87 CS plus an electric car's dash.

Diamond Hands-ing my F87 M2 CS, dead man's car. Will be the last great ICE, RWD manual BMW.

The CS is a great car and the pedigree will make it hold its value better but the last great RWD ICE Manual is a stretch. The G87 starts off on a much better platform. For one, it's a dedicated platform instead of something shared with the 118i and in general the G cars have been much better chassis wise than anything from the FXX generation. The G20 is a *massive* improvement over the F30. That and the S58 is an absolute beast of an engine and tuning potential (if that's your thing) is going to be off the charts.

There's going to be a lot to love about the new G87 in terms of performance, I think I could probably live with the dash if I had to.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by Straight6Dave

The CS is a great car and the pedigree will make it hold its value better but the last great RWD ICE Manual is a stretch. The G87 starts off on a much better platform. For one, it's a dedicated platform instead of something shared with the 118i and in general the G cars have been much better chassis wise than anything from the FXX generation. The G20 is a *massive* improvement over the F30. That and the S58 is an absolute beast of an engine and tuning potential (if that's your thing) is going to be off the charts.

There's going to be a lot to love about the new G87 in terms of performance, I think I could probably live with the dash if I had to.

Yeah i was kind of just messing around with that post. I really hope the G87 is great, maybe if they do skimp on performance (lets say the Comp model is "only" 430hp, which is what autoexpress rumored) that they make up for it with a lighter weight.

I do have some concerns:
- The BMW digital dash is not my cup of tea, but i do hope they upgrade it frequently which would extend the technological relevancy of the G87. If its a great car, that will make for a great ownership experience.
- You can't really fit an adult in the backseat of the G87, thats been documented. Which means its almost more like a 2x2 then the F87 was. Small drawback.
- Having the S58 engine in an X4MC for the past couple years, its not a great engine as far as character compared to the CS tune of the S55 in the M3/M4 CS and M2 CS. I hope BMW eventually gives us a version of this engine thats been remapped to flatten the torque to give that linear engine feel in the CS-tuned S55. And hopefully they do it in a car with a manual transmission.

Reviewers and buyers don't want to admit a couple things.
1) The S58 engine is not a great engine for a sports car and has very little character. Has loads of power, but the torque was tuned out of the lower revs to remove some of the spikiness that people experienced in the F80 cars. Chris Harris put it best when he said "it could be an M340i engine".
2) The G80 cars are so well received cause the F80 car was not really that good. Had loads of traction and ride quality issues, and the original tune of the S55 sounded bad and didn't deliver power right.

[Straight6Dave]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Yeah i was kind of just messing around with that post. I really hope the G87 is great, maybe if they do skimp on performance (lets say the Comp model is "only" 430hp, which is what autoexpress rumored) that they make up for it with a lighter weight.

I do have some concerns:
- The BMW digital dash is not my cup of tea, but i do hope they upgrade it frequently which would extend the technological relevancy of the G87. If its a great car, that will make for a great ownership experience.
- You can't really fit an adult in the backseat of the G87, thats been documented. Which means its almost more like a 2x2 then the F87 was. Small drawback.
- Having the S58 engine in an X4MC for the past couple years, its not a great engine as far as character compared to the CS tune of the S55 in the M3/M4 CS and M2 CS. I hope BMW eventually gives us a version of this engine thats been remapped to flatten the torque to give that linear engine feel in the CS-tuned S55. And hopefully they do it in a car with a manual transmission.

Reviewers and buyers don't want to admit a couple things.
1) The S58 engine is not a great engine for a sports car and has very little character. Has loads of power, but the torque was tuned out of the lower revs to remove some of the spikiness that people experienced in the F80 cars. Chris Harris put it best when he said "it could be an M340i engine".
2) The G80 cars are so well received cause the F80 car was not really that good. Had loads of traction and ride quality issues, and the original tune of the S55 sounded bad and didn't deliver power right.

Every dyno comparison I've seen between the S55 and the S58 shows that the S55 hits harder in the low end and fails off at higher RPMs whereas the S58 has less torque low down but pulls hard to redline.

I haven't driven an S58 M3 yet but a lot of folks think it's pretty good. I personally thought the power delivery of the S55 was a little too much up front and could've pulled harder up top.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by akkando

I think most people like it because big slapped on screens = new high tech. The more it looks like a Tesla, the more your mom thinks it's high tech.

"Most" people? MAYBE among young hipsters or wealthy urban soccer moms or something, but the average M-car enthusiast isn't "most" people.

Looking at this thing further, not only does it looked tacked on and not the least bit integrated, but it makes the rest of the relatively new center vents/stack right below it look positively antiquated. Really horrific design IMHO, whether you're a big curved screen enthusiast or not.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

2) The G80 cars are so well received cause the F80 car was not really that good. Had loads of traction and ride quality issues, and the original tune of the S55 sounded bad and didn't deliver power right.

My best buddy has a '15 M4 and I totally agree with those sentiments. I hated that car at first but grew to like it, if not quite love it, over a few years. Allegedly that stuff was fixed quickly but I've never driven/ridden in a later F82. That said, I'd take ANY F82 over the G80/82.

The S55 in the M2c sounds better and the tune is much better IMHO. Much easier to drive in traffic (6mt) than the early M4.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by KevinC

"Most" people? MAYBE among young hipsters or wealthy urban soccer moms or something, but the average M-car enthusiast isn't "most" people.

Looking at this thing further, not only does it looked tacked on and not the least bit integrated, but it makes the rest of the relatively new center vents/stack right below it look positively antiquated. Really horrific design IMHO, whether you're a big curved screen enthusiast or not.

This isn't an M car thing though. This is where they are going for the regular versions of each series. Most BMW buyers are not buying the full M car trim, and they love this stupid shit because it's symbol of high tech new new new. It's like a pictogram. Big screen? Wow, so new and high tech, better than the old thing. I had to explain to non car people. They just think iPads are new, so if cars have them for everything, then the car tech is newer and better. If I ask them if they think PlayStation would be better if the controller had no buttons and it was a touch screen they then realize physical buttons, while old, can be better than a touch screen, and it sucks having to hunt through a UI to change the temperature.

The M cars just get it because it's on or will be on the base 2, 3, 4 series etc.

This setup is going to be fucking hilarious with a manual transmission and a big iPad screen.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Sounds like the next M2 will have less power than the F87 CS

Originally Posted by ScullyD

I really hope the G87 is great, maybe if they do skimp on performance (lets say the Comp model is "only" 430hp, which is what autoexpress rumored) that they make up for it with a lighter weight.

G87 M2 pre-production cars featuring 455hp exist. Highly likely the M2C.

But don't get blinded by official hp figures. For example, as some dyno tests pointed out, the F87 M2 CS has in reality more hp than the official hp figure. BMW and Porsche regularly quote "conservative" or "-ish" (read: lower) hp figures.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Artemis

G87 M2 pre-production cars featuring 455hp exist. Highly likely the M2C.

But don't get blinded by official hp figures. For example, as some dyno tests pointed out, the F87 M2 CS has in reality more hp than the official hp figure. BMW and Porsche regularly quote "conservative" or "-ish" (read: lower) hp figures.

I’m going to say something a little sacrilegious but I would love to see a M2 in the low 400s or a similar power/weight as F87. I never thought the M2 needed more power. If a car is too fast it really hurts the spirited street driving experience imo.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

I’m going to say something a little sacrilegious but I would love to see a M2 in the low 400s or a similar power/weight as F87. I never thought the M2 needed more power. If a car is too fast it really hurts the spirited street driving experience imo.

It's going to be a lot heavier than the old model so it's going to need some power to make up for it and then more so it can beat the 0-60 and quarter mile numbers from f87c

[Straight6Dave]

Originally Posted by Artemis

G87 M2 pre-production cars featuring 455hp exist. Highly likely the M2C.

But don't get blinded by official hp figures. For example, as some dyno tests pointed out, the F87 M2 CS has in reality more hp than the official hp figure. BMW and Porsche regularly quote "conservative" or "-ish" (read: lower) hp figures.

If I had to bet money, we'll see the M2C come in somewhere in that 450 range with cars putting down closer to 470/480 Horsepower. With a short wheelbase and nearly 500 horsepower the car is going to be an absolute riot.

Keeping the comp under what the M3 makes just makes too much sense if you're a bean counter and if we're lucky, we can get the comp trim with a 6 speed.

[F87EVO]

Latest spies : https://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m2/203556/...aner-than-ever

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Reviewers and buyers don't want to admit a couple things.
1) The S58 engine is not a great engine for a sports car and has very little character. Has loads of power, but the torque was tuned out of the lower revs to remove some of the spikiness that people experienced in the F80 cars. Chris Harris put it best when he said "it could be an M340i engine".
2) The G80 cars are so well received cause the F80 car was not really that good. Had loads of traction and ride quality issues, and the original tune of the S55 sounded bad and didn't deliver power right.

I'm loving the S58 in my 6mt G80... much more so than the S55 in my [early] F80. Yes, even compared to my N55 M2, it feels less torquey down low but it pulls much harder all the way to redline; a powerband I prefer, tbh. In addition, I'm pleasantly surprised with the sound. Again coming from my N55 M2, I thought I'd hate the sound like I did with my F80 but it sounds pretty good, even if some of it is the ASD.

The motor has character, IMO. Maybe in the comps with the ZF it feels more M340i like but with the manual it feels motorsport enough for me. I'll reserve judgement on the G87 given the radical departure in styling and potential for significant weight gain but I welcome the S58 in it.. if they don't neuter it too much and let it rip all the way to redline.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by JTO24

I'm loving the S58 in my 6mt G80... much more so than the S55 in my [early] F80. Yes, even compared to my N55 M2, it feels less torquey down low but it pulls much harder all the way to redline; a powerband I prefer, tbh. In addition, I'm pleasantly surprised with the sound. Again coming from my N55 M2, I thought I'd hate the sound like I did with my F80 but it sounds pretty good, even if some of it is the ASD.

The motor has character, IMO. Maybe in the comps with the ZF it feels more M340i like but with the manual it feels great. I'll reserve judgement on the G87 given the radical departure in styling and potential for significant weight gain but I welcome the S58 in it.. if they don't neuter it too much and let it rip all the way to redline.

Yeah will be interesting to see in the G87 manual how the engine is and how it's tuned in a manual CS or CSL guise.

The S55 has better sound and character in the M2/M3/M4 CS and GTS tune. In the manual CS, feels very linear, it's a pleasure to slot it in gear at low RPM and just listen to it roar and pull. I was pleasantly surprised, I never liked the S55 previously and love it now, feel like it's an all time great engine. Also minimal-to-no fake noise pumped in.

But hopefully we get a version of the s58 mated to a manual with no fake noise pumped in for the G87. I'd love to see that.

I have an X4MC with the s58 and it's just an engine with a ton of fake noise. I turn the exhaust button off every time I start up the car cause the noise is so ridiculous.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Bimmercs

Latest spies : https://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m2/203556/...aner-than-ever

Look here for recent pictures.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by KevinC

DEAL KILLER

That "one seamless display" is already in the i4 and it's probably safe to assume that this is what it will look like in the G87..

Absolute abomination to my eye, complete with stand-off legs to "mount" it to the dash. Looks like something out of the AliExpress catalog.

I don't mind the "floating" instrument panel, but I hate the oddly shaped speedo/tach displays (with counterclockwise tach) BMW has gravitated to. Should be easy enough in an electronic panel to also mimic traditional round instruments.

[Project_F87]

Got some info that I cannot discuss the source of, but apparently the front headlights of the G87 will not be the same as the regular 2 series.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Project_F87

Got some info that I cannot discuss the source of, but apparently the front headlights of the G87 will not be the same as the regular 2 series.

For the record: the leaked bumper of months ago indicated a different shape of the headlights housing: