[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Luminous

From what I've heard we will be seeing an S55 M2 starting in MY2018, so around summer/fall of calendar year 2017. The buzz on the German forums is that the N55 will no longer meet the euro new car emissions requirements starting in early 2018 so it looks like BMW will finally retire the N55, not to mention it's only being used in the current M2 and the X4M40i, which will be getting the B58 next year.

Also, apparently there will NOT be a GTS version, a hardcore CSL version will probably be released closer to the end of F80/82 production. The CS will most likely not be super hardcore and will be similar to a competition package.

FWIW.

I have no idea if this is true or not regarding European emissions but this certainly seems to be a possible reason for BMW to change motor's from N55 to S55.

The current X4M40i won't be around much longer with a new X3 coming and sounds like there is a need to replace the motor in european models of the M2.


I also share your opinion on a GTS/CSL model coming and expect it to be a CSL.

Mmmmmm Tea...
GimmeanM

[termigni]

Originally Posted by Luminous

What I'm saying is, BMW will likely replace the N55 with the S55 in the base M2 starting MY2018. Whether they call it CS or not who knows.

that ain't happening. There is a small chance that the base M2 may get B58 for LCI but that is still far fetched IMO.

I feel like CS will start at about $65k with this badass engine upgrade.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by blackholescion

They simply won't. The LCI does not include a motor change (minor changes only) and it's the only M2 in 2018MY. The German forum is just like our forum. They don't know more or less, and I'd trust the word of a dependable source with a proven track record.

The guy I'm quoting is a dependable source on the German forums.

Engine upgrade at LCI is not new to BMW, it's happened before.

Main reasons pointing towards S55 in MY2018 M2:

- first and foremost the emissions issue. Euro emission standards are very strict and due to some new legislation the N55 will no longer meet euro emissions requirements for new cars starting January 2018.

- N55 currently being used for only two models in the entire BMW lineup, and the X4M40i is getting the B58 leaving only the M2. The cost of producing an engine used in only one model needs to be considered.

- competition. The M2 competitors are all around 400hp and the BMW needs to step up the power to stay on the game.

- issues with current M2 N55. The N55 is at its limit in terms of fueling and cooling, lots of reports of fueling issues and heatsoak on stock M2s.

- M240i with the B58 is faster than the M2, this will definitely be fixed by introducing the S55.

Considering all the reasons I've mentioned above, it seems very likely the S55 will be introduced for all M2s starting MY2018 along with the LCI. In my opinion the emissions issue seems like the most convincing reason.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by termigni

that ain't happening. There is a small chance that the base M2 may get B58 for LCI but that is still far fetched IMO.

I feel like CS will start at about $65k with this badass engine upgrade.

It is much less likely that the M2 will get the B58 versus the S55 for the following reasons:

- the M2 B58 would need to be tuned higher than the current B58 to compete with the M240 xdrive, and the B58 is currently close to its stock fueling limits.

- it would be the first and only model with a B58 and M DCT trans. If you haven't noticed BMW likes to streamline production, it seems way easier/cheaper to just upgrade to S55 versus redesigning and tuning and engine to be used in only one model.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by swilliams

M2 CS "Lawn Mower" Edition -- When 365HP just isn't enough for your 10 mile commute to work in traffic.

This x 1 million, on both points

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by blackholescion

They simply won't. The LCI does not include a motor change (minor changes only) and it's the only M2 in 2018MY. The German forum is just like our forum. They don't know more or less, and I'd trust the word of a dependable source with a proven track record.

EDIT: Also, if it's emissions related, that starts in 2018 like you said. Europe operates on a calendar year. So their 2018 calendar year is our actual MY2019.

The emissions standard starts January 1 2018 so unless you think they'll swap engines last minute in the middle of the MY, that makes no sense.

[Corinne]

I'd be surprised if they put an S55 into the M2 for emissions purposes because the M4 produces CO2 of 194 and 204 (DCT and manual) which is slightly more than the M2 (185 and 199). If they're worrying about emissions, it makes more sense to put the B58 into the M2 as the M240i has CO2 emissions of 163 and 179.

[blackholescion]

Originally Posted by Luminous

The guy I'm quoting is a dependable source on the German forums.

Engine upgrade at LCI is not new to BMW, it's happened before.

Main reasons pointing towards S55 in MY2018 M2:

- first and foremost the emissions issue. Euro emission standards are very strict and due to some new legislation the N55 will no longer meet euro emissions requirements for new cars starting January 2018.

- N55 currently being used for only two models in the entire BMW lineup, and the X4M40i is getting the B58 leaving only the M2. The cost of producing an engine used in only one model needs to be considered.

- competition. The M2 competitors are all around 400hp and the BMW needs to step up the power to stay on the game.

- issues with current M2 N55. The N55 is at its limit in terms of fueling and cooling, lots of reports of fueling issues and heatsoak on stock M2s.

- M240i with the B58 is faster than the M2, this will definitely be fixed by introducing the S55.

Considering all the reasons I've mentioned above, it seems very likely the S55 will be introduced for all M2s starting MY2018 along with the LCI. In my opinion the emissions issue seems like the most convincing reason.

I really do appreciate your reasoning, and these are all reasons why the M2 CS will replace the base M2 with an S55 and whatever else M decides to put on/in the car. That fact isn't disputed. It's just not happening in MY2018. Since BMW operates on a yearly cycle in Europe, it only makes sense that the S55 will come in 2018 (calendar year) to comply with emissions and whatever else. Due to how dates and model years work, that means that we aren't seeing the S55 before MY2019 (July2018), even if Europe gets it first.

Unless you think they will introduce the S55 in 1 or 2 months time? I don't know of a time that BMW updated their motors in the middle of a year in Europe for an M car. The S54 in the Z3M was February start for an LCI MY change in terms of production. The S52 was only for US Spec E36s so that's different.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by Luminous

The emissions standard starts January 1 2018 so unless you think they'll swap engines last minute in the middle of the MY, that makes no sense.

What emissions? Can't be carbon dioxide because I fail to see how the S55 will run cheaper. Must be something else? But what?

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by Corinne

I'd be surprised if they put an S55 into the M2 for emissions purposes because the M4 produces CO2 of 194 and 204 (DCT and manual) which is slightly more than the M2 (185 and 199). If they're worrying about emissions, it makes more sense to put the B58 into the M2 as the M240i has CO2 emissions of 163 and 179.

This is a good point. I wonder if the "detuned" s55 will have better emissions or whether they plan to slightly modify the engine?

I do not see a B58 M2 anytime soon for the reasons I mentioned in a previous post.

[Verdi]

I fail to see your reasoning. Why can't they change for MY2018, ie July 2017?

Originally Posted by blackholescion

I really do appreciate your reasoning, and these are all reasons why the M2 CS will replace the base M2 with an S55 and whatever else M decides to put on/in the car. That fact isn't disputed. It's just not happening in MY2018. Since BMW operates on a yearly cycle in Europe, it only makes sense that the S55 will come in 2018 (calendar year) to comply with emissions and whatever else. Due to how dates and model years work, that means that we aren't seeing the S55 before MY2019 (July2018), even if Europe gets it first.

Unless you think they will introduce the S55 in 1 or 2 months time? I don't know of a time that BMW updated their motors in the middle of a year in Europe for an M car. The S54 in the Z3M was February start for an LCI MY change in terms of production. The S52 was only for US Spec E36s so that's different.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by Verdi

What emissions? Can't be carbon dioxide because I fail to see how the S55 will run cheaper. Must be something else? But what?

I will try to look into the details of the new legislation and report back. Might give us a few clues.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by Luminous

I will try to look into the details of the new legislation and report back. Might give us a few clues.

I found some stuff about september 2018 but that was for diesels and Nox emissions. Isn't a problem for petrol engines. Neither are small particles.

[blackholescion]

Originally Posted by Verdi

I fail to see your reasoning. Why can't they change for MY2018, ie July 2017?

They can, but I provided a link to a post by ynguldyn saying explicitly that it's a MY2019 car which in the US means Jul2018. This is on top of his MY2018 M2 LCI is a mild refresh comments in the 2er thread.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by blackholescion

They can, but I provided a link to a post by ynguldyn saying explicitly that it's a MY2019 car which in the US means Jul2018.

BMW model years change in July for models that are manufactured in Europe. This is true for all markets. Not only the US.

[firestarter2]

Reading the tea leaves at some point all M2s will have the S55 the question is when. Im inclined that will happen much sooner then people think id bet MY 2018 has it. Why build a one off engine for the M2 in the limited amounts they make them detuning the S55 makes much more sense especially since the 240 is just as fast.

The M2 CS will not have a base price higher then a M3. Though I bet its really close.

Sounds awesome to me

[termigni]

Originally Posted by Luminous

It is much less likely that the M2 will get the B58 versus the S55 for the following reasons:

- the M2 B58 would need to be tuned higher than the current B58 to compete with the M240 xdrive, and the B58 is currently close to its stock fueling limits.

- it would be the first and only model with a B58 and M DCT trans. If you haven't noticed BMW likes to streamline production, it seems way easier/cheaper to just upgrade to S55 versus redesigning and tuning and engine to be used in only one model.

my predictions are B58 for base M2 LCI and S55 for M2CS.

if you are saying all M2s will get S55, what do you think the base price will be then?
I can not see BMW charging slightly more for the S55 M2. IMO S55 M2 will definitely cost $10k more than current M2. And if that is the case, the whole business model for an M2 is in the trash. M2 is made to attract younger generation to the M brand and keep them here.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ex12psi

i stand corrected, no dry sump, thanks.

i agree the N55 feels smoother but this isnt a good characteristic to me. i like the rough and edgy feel of the S55, more mechanical. i prefer this to the more 'normal' feeling N55 which arguably is "smoother"

I totally agree the S55 feels MUCH more powerful!

Agreed on the N55 - the "smoothness" to me was boring - but we all like different things, so it's good to have choices.

My guess is that this thing will be 70K MSRP. Which is still cheaper than a comparable 718S with a few options...and still much cheaper than a GT4.

It will be harder to get than a normal M2 too...

[PackPride85]

You guys forget the N54 was used ONLY in the Z4 for 3 years (2013-2016). That motor was introduced in 2007. The N55 will stay in the base M2 LCI. Whether that model goes away with the introduction of the CS, no one has given solid info on that yet.

[Luminous]

Originally Posted by termigni

my predictions are B58 for base M2 LCI and S55 for M2CS.

if you are saying all M2s will get S55, what do you think the base price will be then?
I can not see BMW charging slightly more for the S55 M2. IMO S55 M2 will definitely cost $10k more than current M2. And if that is the case, the whole business model for an M2 is in the trash. M2 is made to attract younger generation to the M brand and keep them here.

It's all about economy of scale. How did you arrive at the assumption that the S55 would be "at least 10k more?"

Also what makes you think they would put a B58 in the base M2? I don't see them having different engines within the same model car, I mean look at the GTS, it's just an S55 with a water injection kit.

If the base M2 gets the S55 I predict an MSRP of 59-60k. As someone else pointed out earlier, there is no way this car will be more expensive than the larger, more powerful and more luxurious M3/4.

[termigni]

damn the mighty M2 sounds weak when we call it the "base M2". feels like we are treating it like a Toyota Camry.

BMW just should stick to one model; M2 and move on to the next generation M2.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by Luminous

The CS will most likely not be super hardcore and will be similar to a competition package.

FWIW.

Music to my ears.

No stripped out pseudo wannabee racer chariot need apply at'Chez' Nine Lives