[GregoryK]

Just sold the MINI JCW. Drove it the last time today...

The JCW is a car that you can wind out around the city and really feel the sense of fun and power and acceleration. The M2 is much heavier and although it handles like it is on rails the extra 2 feet of length means that you have to take up more than your lane id you are drifting it at all. Also because of its weight it is way less nimble so I actually drive it more sedately than the MINI.
So it is really not that great around town but is great going fast in open areas....but then there is radar and cops and other drivers....
I guess that just leaves the track.
Honestly at this point I might be feeling remorse after 6 MINI's. ..but as a DD the MINI has the M2 beat on every level. Yes the M2 is way faster to 60mph and it gets more thumbs up from cops and others but really it is like a Ferrari that is really only a show vehicle in North America.
I know you guys will kill me here....but go ahead...give me what you have. ...
Then I guess that brings up the M2C.....really what is the need or point of 40HP more that you can really only brag about with other members of this forum. You will never fully use it on public roads....

[Rick4345]

Just like the reason a person has a McLaren or any other high performance car. "Because I want it."

[DanG]

Just find some twisty roads and enjoy how the M2 takes them like it is on rails. The M2 will out corner your Mini any day.

[430409M2]

I'm on my second m2. I had love issues and got myself a cayman. After a while I realized that while the cayman is cool and in every way what I prefer in a sporty car, the m2 has its downfalls yes, but it's a great balance between mid 20's guy with a muscle car and 40-something father with a wife and kids.

Forget the M2C. This m2 is fast enough for street driving, basically too fast for normal people's needs. I love the sound of the n55 (I just installed the MPE). It's a great bargain per smile. Also, the N55 is cheaper to service than a S55 will be.

I personally love the look of the pre lci cars. And both of these over the new redesigned front end. Give the m2 more time. Once you get more seat time you'll feel better about the car.

Also, drive in traction mode... that's my favorite mode for just being child. It's so loud any noisy for a quick run to the store.. hah!

[GregoryK]

Originally Posted by 430409M2

I'm on my second m2. I had love issues and got myself a cayman. After a while I realized that while the cayman is cool and in every way what I prefer in a sporty car, the m2 has its downfalls yes, but it's a great balance between mid 20's guy with a muscle car and 40-something father with a wife and kids.

Forget the M2C. This m2 is fast enough for street driving, basically too fast for normal people's needs. I love the sound of the n55 (I just installed the MPE). It's a great bargain per smile. Also, the N55 is cheaper to service than a S55 will be.

I personally love the look of the pre lci cars. And both of these over the new redesigned front end. Give the m2 more time. Once you get more seat time you'll feel better about the car.

Also, drive in traction mode... that's my favorite mode for just being child. It's so loud any noisy for a quick run to the store.. hah!

I know what you are saying. The M2 is just a better looking more stylish car. No question. Yes it is on rails. I would say though without really knowing rear wheel drive cars well. That the JCW would be more usable through a canyon road than the M2. Race track is a different situation. M2 hands down.
The point I am making poorly. Is that a car like a MINI JCW for day to day driving excitement is more useable and fun. Sure no one notices that slightly ugly car but I'm not talking penis envy...I'm talking pure fun.
When you see reviews of the M2 and the reviewer squealing for joy those situations are 100% on a track....you get my perspective.

[CanadianDriver]

Originally Posted by GregoryK

Just sold the MINI JCW. Drove it the last time today...

The JCW is a car that you can wind out around the city and really feel the sense of fun and power and acceleration. The M2 is much heavier and although it handles like it is on rails the extra 2 feet of length means that you have to take up more than your lane id you are drifting it at all. Also because of its weight it is way less nimble so I actually drive it more sedately than the MINI.
So it is really not that great around town but is great going fast in open areas....but then there is radar and cops and other drivers....
I guess that just leaves the track.
Honestly at this point I might be feeling remorse after 6 MINI's. ..but as a DD the MINI has the M2 beat on every level. Yes the M2 is way faster to 60mph and it gets more thumbs up from cops and others but really it is like a Ferrari that is really only a show vehicle in North America.
I know you guys will kill me here....but go ahead...give me what you have. ...
Then I guess that brings up the M2C.....really what is the need or point of 40HP more that you can really only brag about with other members of this forum. You will never fully use it on public roads....

I’m curious, when you test drove the M2, was there sufficient seat time to show this gap you’re feeling after you’ve driven both cars back-to-back? Maybe the test car was configured differently...

[430409M2]

Originally Posted by GregoryK

I know what you are saying. The M2 is just a better looking more stylish car. No question. Yes it is on rails. I would say though without really knowing rear wheel drive cars well. That the JCW would be more usable through a canyon road than the M2. Race track is a different situation. M2 hands down.
The point I am making poorly. Is that a car like a MINI JCW for day to day driving excitement is more useable and fun. Sure no one notices that slightly ugly car but I'm not talking penis envy...I'm talking pure fun.
When you see reviews of the M2 and the reviewer squealing for joy those situations are 100% on a track....you get my perspective.

Out of curiosity, what is your spec and typical driving style in the m2?

[CanadianDriver]

Originally Posted by GregoryK

When you see reviews of the M2 and the reviewer squealing for joy those situations are 100% on a track....you get my perspective.

When I ordered mine, there were no test drives available nor allowed by Canadian dealers (snobby). I had to rely on journalists and blog reviews. I found sensible, non-track reviews of the M2 pre-LCI and it was pretty unanimous, sans the complaints for crooked seats and interior materials. Granted, those reviewers likely did not own a JCW as their daily driver.

[GregoryK]

Originally Posted by CanadianDriver

I’m curious, when you test drove the M2, was there sufficient seat time to show this gap you’re feeling after you’ve driven both cars back-to-back? Maybe the test car was configured differently...

As stated below seat time in a run in stick M2 was tough. You read the reviews and take your best guess.
Felt like the M2 was the 2 series JCW so a natural progression.
Thing is that you can't use the power of the M2 in the city....well not safely anyway...You can thrash a JCW and really get moving in the city and it is light so you can be quicker in traffic....hey just my opinion.
I have taken people across town in the JCW and they say "holly f---k" that was amazing....you can't do that in an M2 it would be too dangerous.

[Pyrat 2]

Go to the track. That'll help you transition from the Mini.

[GregoryK]

Originally Posted by 430409M2

Out of curiosity, what is your spec and typical driving style in the m2?

I like to drive my cars (and earlier motorbikes) fast by an average standard. I am a sensation seeker. I am a pilot too. I like the edge of handling.
The M2 is very a very capable car. Driving even close to the limits on a daily basis is just not possible or safe.
I tend to drive it like I would any bigger heavier car....slower. After all I am not only responsible for my own life but others too.
All I'm saying is I'm driving around thinking " this is a really fast car....this is a really fast car" then a smaller lighter car whips by and it feels like too much of a commitment to take them on. Somehow in the JCW you don't think about it you just go for it.
The highway of course is a different situation.... but that is not my main playground...and is less about driver skill...IMHO

[bartginger]

I think part of the issue here is the "six mini's in a row." You have probably become very used to the size, power and handling capabilities of the Mini and now have a pretty major adjustment to make. I think if you give it time and slowly advance your aggressiveness with the M2 on the street you will be okay. What's the alternative? Sell the M2 and go get a Mini JCW or whatever they're called and lose a bunch of money. I'd suggest hanging in there for a few months and see if you fall in love with the M2.

[ZM2]

I came from three JCWs over 13-years before my M2.

I find the M2 more comfortable, better looking, the cabin is quieter, it’s better for road trips, the interior isn’t as cheap feeling, the stereo is better, the exhaust sound is way better, the handling is great, the ride is less bouncy, it’s more practical and I can carry more people and cargo, the torque in stop & go traffic is addicting, and it is so much faster than a MINI.

Even living in a congested city like DC, I’ve never once missed my JCWs (except when trying to street park).

[Fear-Mongrel]

Why didn't you sell the M2 and keep the Mini? I've read many of your posts since you got the M2, and on balance you've been mostly if not entirely unhappy with it. You've had mechanical and/or usability issues with yours, if I recall correctly, and you found it so noisy that you did major sound-deadening surgery to get the cabin dB level down. Why put up with all the disappointment and sell the other car that you actually loved driving? The Minis are great fun, certainly nobody here would fault you for dumping the M2 and keeping the JCW. Different strokes...

[akkando]

Originally Posted by GregoryK

Just sold the MINI JCW. Drove it the last time today...

The JCW is a car that you can wind out around the city and really feel the sense of fun and power and acceleration. The M2 is much heavier and although it handles like it is on rails the extra 2 feet of length means that you have to take up more than your lane id you are drifting it at all. Also because of its weight it is way less nimble so I actually drive it more sedately than the MINI.
So it is really not that great around town but is great going fast in open areas....but then there is radar and cops and other drivers....
I guess that just leaves the track.
Honestly at this point I might be feeling remorse after 6 MINI's. ..but as a DD the MINI has the M2 beat on every level. Yes the M2 is way faster to 60mph and it gets more thumbs up from cops and others but really it is like a Ferrari that is really only a show vehicle in North America.
I know you guys will kill me here....but go ahead...give me what you have. ...
Then I guess that brings up the M2C.....really what is the need or point of 40HP more that you can really only brag about with other members of this forum. You will never fully use it on public roads....

I'm sure the extra 40-80 hp (check on a dyno) the M2C brings will change the character of the car. You don't have to use ALL of the power to prefer the character of the car with a higher revving more powerful engine.


Also maybe get a BRZ or miata or something? Cayman perhaps?

[champignon]

I share a lot of the OP's feelings towards the M2, even though I have never owned a Mini, and only drove a rental Mini once, a version that has no power and was an automatic, which I didn't care for.

The M2 is a big, comfortable, car, by my standards. I bought it because I wanted a more modern performance BMW car, and it was the least of all available evils. When I do my 155 mile, each way, journey to the big city for my work, which I do about 3X a month, the M2 is enjoyable to drive, when I take it. In town, it is "OK." But 3 months into ownership, I never find myself thinking, "I just can't wait to get into my M2 and drive it." I have 4 other cars that feel that way about, regularly, all vintage: 1M, 2000 Z3M Coupe, 135is Convertible, and Porsche 2003 996 911 TT. The other car I have that doesn't excite me is my Golf R, which is useful for its AWD and general appearance that doesn't attract the sort of attention from people who might do your car harm.

Yes, I have way too many cars, that much is obvious :-) But the M2 is too big, too heavy, and a bit numb compared to any of the 4 cars I listed above. It loses something as a result. Those here who don't have experience with earlier generations of sporty cars may not understand, but those who do, probably do understand.

All the real sporty car action these days is coming from the "hot hatch" cars. BMW could compete in that arena if they chose to, and do it better, for way less money than an M2 or M2C. If they did, they would attract the next generation of sporty car drivers, however they seem to have lost interest in that group of buyers, and prefer to make SUVs and yachts, which I am guessing are more profitable.

Pretty soon, with the direction that BMW is going in, the M2 will weigh almost 4000 pounds, have 425 HP, and be no more stimulating to drive than an American muscle car.

[ShelJW]

Seems like you haven't sold your mini yet.

Keep the mini, and sell the M2.

Problem solved!

I use my M2 for canyon runs, and to drive along the coast. The car has plenty of power, and sticks to the ground better then any car I've owned, other then a Lotus Esprit I owned years ago.

Love driving the M2, but I have three other cars, so it's not like I have to take it to the market, or drive it in heavy traffic. I drive it on Saturdays or Sundays, through the canyons, or I'll take it to Santa Barbara for brunch, or early evenings during the week when I have time.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

[stefan]

FI catted DP, MPE, Wagner Evo II Comp. You will be MUCH happier. Pulls like the M cars of old, but with more torque in low RPMs

[BruceM]

My heavily modded 930 weighs just over 3,000 lbs and makes 512hp/467 ft-lbs to the wheels at 1 bar on pump gas. Is my Dinan P2 M2 "a bit numb" in comparison? Absolutely. But it still is a hoot to drive, especially on the track, because it is so much easier to control at its limits. The 930 is as "direct" a car in steering and overall feel as I have owned, but it is also a constant, exhilarating but exhausting battle; the M2 is much less nerve-wracking. And the M2 is a great little daily driver, too.

Happy to own each. Miss each when I'm driving the other one, too, for different reasons.

I'm just not a FWD guy, so the FWD Mini would never be for me. To each his own, as they say...

[430409M2]

I think there are different types of fun to be had between the cars the OP is comparing.

Driving a slow car fast takes skill. Driving a fast car slow takes restraint.

My fun when cruising around town, just normal DD stuff, is a loud exhaust (mpe for the valve in my case) and enjoying the noises during off throttle.

Sure, I'll only shift down to third and take a 90 degree corner a little faster than I would in my e46. But my fun (on the street) is mostly noise and childish onramps.

At the end of the day, the two cars have very similar engineering. Both are bmwgroup cars with co-designed tech. The mini's motor is just a 4 cyl version of the n55. And 6 cyl's are just smoother and feel less bogged down under sudden load at low rpm.

[IB M]

I've never driven a JCW mini but I've driven a lot of FWD cars and I'd take a RWD car every day for fun factor. Sounds like OP should have bought a BRZ or a Miata instead of an M2.

[SEAT TIME RULES]

The OP point about tossing his Mini around is spot on. its an outstanding auto X car with great turn in (60+% on the front axle).

On tight roads I'm sure its a blast to drive.

But that's as far as I go giving it compliments.

Its FWD and even with the LSD up front its still FWD.


At SCCA Nat's LY the top driven Mini Cooper S was 1 second slower than the fastest driven Miata MX-5 ( who won his class C-Stock) The Mini was 8th in his class ( D-Stock)

The best a current M2 could do in B Stock was 1.6 secs back from the winner in his Porsche Cayman S.

I also know this M2 driver and he's good..

A 1 second delta is an eternity in Solo 2.

I hate FWD cars. They suck...

Brake bias sucks in them, you go thru front pads, tires and rotors much more often than RWD 50/50 weighted cars.

Corner apex to exit understeer is a real bummer, and the car is traction limited at corner exit vs a RWD car as well.


I'm in line for a M2C but already have my auto x car and its by far the most fun car I have ever owned. 2400 lbs, 165 WHP and its RWD. Oh, the shifter, and clutch are heaven. Leagues ahead of any P-Car, BMW etc I've driven as HPDE instructor/EVO Auto X instructor, etc.

A 2017 MX-5 RF


There are only 2 BMW M cars that could be driven competitively in Both Auto X, and at the track. The E30 and the E36. In fact they did so good in their original classes they had to be bumped up in class.


The E46 is a awesome track car but it never crossed over like the other 2 in Auto X. Lets not even discuss the later platforms...

The current M2 and the upcoming M2C are 300-400 lbs too heavy to use as a auto x weapon.

So I have the RF for runway use and the M2 for my HPDE's. Its about as good as it gets.

What's more important to you?

For me I have to have both