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      06-17-2018, 12:33 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
The trouble is that the clear majority of M drivers I know I meet at the track. To my knowledge, none of them drag their cars. Zero. That is not what they bought those cars for. You can get more of that kind of performance for the buck from other cars if dragging is your thing. Moreover, track driving is not the only way one can enjoy a well balanced RWD car. Head to your favorite country road and become one with your machine--one of life's true pleasures.
Well that’s your friends. Regardless of what Ms were built for in particular the M3/4s ,You cannot speak for the rest of the country on what BMW M owners do with their car.Some do a little of everything,while some will just drag race and some will autox and roadrace.Cmon!
Here on this side of the country we have a lot of half mile events and some of the most famous road tracks this side of the US aside from California. Chicago ,Boston,New York City, including all the big cities from WashingtonDC down to Florida and Texas,a lot of M owners will tell you whether they drive the half mile,autox ,1/4 mile or Roadrace. I do not know much about what goes on in your town of Seattle. Right now there is going to big a big half mile event in New Orleams. Go check out how many “M” s you see!

When I look at this link I sure do see more cars drag racing than road racing and putting out enormous power

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...ght=Pure+turbo

Bottom line Ms and RS3s are also great cars for drag racing with the edge going to the RS3 for traction
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      06-17-2018, 01:29 AM   #68
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"Bottom line," dragging a proper M car is like using a wrench to drive in a nail. It works, but it is not what the wrench was made for.
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      06-17-2018, 08:11 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
"Bottom line," dragging a proper M car is like using a wrench to drive in a nail. It works, but it is not what the wrench was made for.
Do people drag race Corvettes?

That’s way more of a trackcar than an M as are Lambos,Ferrari’s and Porsche’s used in the aforementioned race categories.

Folks are open to different things with sports cars. And you bet your ass when the manufacturer builds them they test them in drag situations to get quarter mile times,time from 0 to 100 mph and so forth.

So I really think your thoughts are appreciated but not everyone feels like you! You want a race car then gut the interior of your M and throw out the radio ,AC ,interior and all the other luxuries and put in a race seat,fire extinguishers,roll cage and the works. There is your track car.

Or just get an E30M3 and do the same. Again RS3 cool car for straight line.

So thank God your thoughts are not the law That’s the Bottom line!
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      06-17-2018, 11:19 PM   #70
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Of course my thoughts are not "the law." Do not know what that would even mean. But they reflect the genesis, the original purpose, of the M brand. And I'm all for that original purpose.

If it were not for the M2, I would have left BMW. The car isn't perfect, but it's the closest thing left to that original M mission, by a long shot. Which never included dragging, bottom line.
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      06-18-2018, 09:15 PM   #71
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Of course my thoughts are not "the law." Do not know what that would even mean. But they reflect the genesis, the original purpose, of the M brand. And I'm all for that original purpose.

If it were not for the M2, I would have left BMW. The car isn't perfect, but it's the closest thing left to that original M mission, by a long shot. Which never included dragging, bottom line.
Drag racing is and has always been an American pastime,don’t get mad because things have changed and evolved to where imports have joined the game and for many years now. The M mission you speak of had been homologated years ago and now dead!! It’s a fat porky luxury ,road ,sports car , that comes as a sedan or a coupe. The 4 door automatic E36 M3 broke the mold my friend and they definitely were not thinking that with the 1980s M5 and 6! Those were Uber sedans competing with MB and their Hammer for fastest Autobahn cruiser. It is what it is now and that’s the bottom line. Let go of the past because the manufactures sure have. It’s a fruitless debate so have fun pandering over this. Good bye!
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      06-19-2018, 11:50 PM   #72
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Let's just hope that there are a few good men left at BMW who disagree with you, and will keep the mission alive. Because, despite what you say, it's not dead yet.
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      06-20-2018, 04:42 AM   #73
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Quote:
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"Bottom line," dragging a proper M car is like using a wrench to drive in a nail. It works, but it is not what the wrench was made for.
@ Nürburgring 7 out of 10 'normal' (not hothatch) cars are(newer and older) BMWs . I'm not talking semi supercars like Porsches etc and supercars like Macca/Ferrari/Lambo/

For decades and decades BMWs are very very popular cars @ Nürburgring.

Audis not so much.

Same goes for trackdays overhere in EU.

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      06-21-2018, 11:18 AM   #74
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Seems odd that instead of celebrating modern technology the RS3 gets bashed. Looks are subjective, design is not exactly bmw's current strong point. Enjoy the cars, be it the M2, Rs3 or Porsche, no need to be apologetic and defensive about the M cars.
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      06-22-2018, 04:04 AM   #75
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My buddy has an RS3, it’s a very nice car. All around good car that is fast, comfortable, great fit and finish, and AWD. APR just released a stage 1 chip for the car too, seeing some huge gains so far with that (especially with e85). That said, I still like my car more. Fun factor, looks, exhaust note, all things I like better on the M2. Of course I’m bias and opinions of course differ, but I wouldn’t trade my car for the RS3. But I sure as hell appreciate the type of car it is, a beast.
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      06-22-2018, 11:40 AM   #76
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If you guys think an Audi is more fun than an M car, you don't drive your cars. Go for a canyon run and call me back. Be careful not to understeer off a cliff in the RS3.

No really though; these cars just PLOW. That isn't fun. I am not even talking track driving. I am talking onramps, twisties, etc. It's terrible.

I much prefer the look, interior, and motor of the RS3. But it has the wrong transmission and FWD based AWD. No thanks. I have owned an S4 and won't go back. Extremely capable cars with amazing winter grip and forward acceleration but that's it.
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      06-25-2018, 01:24 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
If you guys think an Audi is more fun than an M car, you don't drive your cars. Go for a canyon run and call me back. Be careful not to understeer off a cliff in the RS3.

No really though; these cars just PLOW. That isn't fun. I am not even talking track driving. I am talking onramps, twisties, etc. It's terrible.

I much prefer the look, interior, and motor of the RS3. But it has the wrong transmission and FWD based AWD. No thanks. I have owned an S4 and won't go back. Extremely capable cars with amazing winter grip and forward acceleration but that's it.
I had a B5S4. Way more fun than a US 4 door automatic E36 M3
Do I like the M better for other reasons,Yes! Do I see more Ms at all different track events perhaps more than Audi,Yes!
Do I like the RS3 Yes you bet! Also like the TTRS.
I don’t think it’s about more fun or less fun than an M car.

FACTs is that the RS3 is faster in a straight line and can be modded to run faster n
a straight line than an M car for cheaper. A lot of folks will like that.

The RS3 has a following,is grabbing attention and is selling.
Whether One likes the look of the M better or RS3 better is irrelevant in that
aspect as far as straight line performance is concerned.

It is also a persons right to like what they like. Sometimes as a BMW forum member or fan we can forget that. I’m a car enthusiast and BMW fan but can appreciate this little Audi based on what I see it’s capable of doing in the 1/2 and 1/4 mile.

Still in all this little Audi has impressive straight line performance.
The data shows that.
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      06-25-2018, 07:51 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
No really though; these cars just PLOW. That isn't fun. I am not even talking track driving.

I much prefer the look, interior, and motor of the RS3. But it has the wrong transmission and FWD based AWD. No thanks. I have owned an S4 and won't go back. Extremely capable cars with amazing winter grip and forward acceleration but that's it.
the 2018 RS3 couldn't be more different than the old S4. RS3 is about 340lbs lighter and up 50+ horses. nose is much lighter due to 5 cyl and in a much more compact package.

does it turn like the m2? no. exterior also goes to the m2 imo. but everything else is better on the rs3. quickness, sound, interior, all weather driving, electronic goodies like virtual cockpit, seats 5 grown people, CHEAPER (in canada) etc. audi went hard on pricing here. it's crazy the value this car presents. i think it's probably the cheapest RS3 in the world. canadians win, for once.

with that said, i've love to own an m2 as well for weekend driving since i need to haul a babyseat most days to drop off the little one at school.
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      06-25-2018, 10:40 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by vassili View Post
the 2018 RS3 couldn't be more different than the old S4. RS3 is about 340lbs lighter and up 50+ horses. nose is much lighter due to 5 cyl and in a much more compact package.

does it turn like the m2? no. exterior also goes to the m2 imo. but everything else is better on the rs3. quickness, sound, interior, all weather driving, electronic goodies like virtual cockpit, seats 5 grown people, CHEAPER (in canada) etc. audi went hard on pricing here. it's crazy the value this car presents. i think it's probably the cheapest RS3 in the world. canadians win, for once.

with that said, i've love to own an m2 as well for weekend driving since i need to haul a babyseat most days to drop off the little one at school.

I dunno. That's what S4 owners told me about the S4, even going as far to say that it was more fun than the previous gen RS4 in terms of handling dynamics. So obviously I'll remain skeptical. Nose is not much lighter. And the platform is inherently broken in its setup. It's also FWD based vs S4 torsen RWD bias. I already gave the RS3 the advantage in winter and for straight line speed. But it's a second car for me at best. I'd rather have a competent beater.

You're right about it being cheaper. Fully loaded it was $6K cheaper for me when I had a deposit on the RS3 vs my 2018 M2.

BTW virtual cockpit is such a bad idea. There is a reason Bugatti doesn't have one. All that overly virtual laggy shit is going to look like such garbage in 5 years. If I could have ordered my M2 without a nav I would have. But thank god it has analogue gauges.
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      06-25-2018, 01:50 PM   #80
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I don't know what virtual cockpits you have sat in but the Audi ones are not laggy. Even the basic one in the MK7.5 Golf R isn't laggy.
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      06-26-2018, 12:50 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedawg View Post
I had a B5S4. Way more fun than a US 4 door automatic E36 M3
Do I like the M better for other reasons,Yes! Do I see more Ms at all different track events perhaps more than Audi,Yes!
Do I like the RS3 Yes you bet! Also like the TTRS.
I don’t think it’s about more fun or less fun than an M car.

FACTs is that the RS3 is faster in a straight line and can be modded to run faster n
a straight line than an M car for cheaper. A lot of folks will like that.

The RS3 has a following,is grabbing attention and is selling.
Whether One likes the look of the M better or RS3 better is irrelevant in that
aspect as far as straight line performance is concerned.

It is also a persons right to like what they like. Sometimes as a BMW forum member or fan we can forget that. I’m a car enthusiast and BMW fan but can appreciate this little Audi based on what I see it’s capable of doing in the 1/2 and 1/4 mile.

Still in all this little Audi has impressive straight line performance.
The data shows that.
Out of the five paragraphs in this post, the last four mention some variation of "straight-line performance." We get it. The RS3 is faster in a straight line than an M2. But some drivers are not particularly focused on straight line performance, divorced from the overall performance of the car when you turn the wheel--in the twisties or on the track. Personally, I'm not a fan of constant understeer with a four wheel drivetrain. Might get you around a track quicker (although not in this particular case), but not near as fun as control-able oversteer in a balanced RWD package. The F87 is not a car for stoplight drags. It is a car for turning the wheel.
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      07-02-2018, 09:53 PM   #82
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You can watch the circuit or back road based tests and you will not find a single one where the Audi is faster or as highly regarded.
Wet weather obviously would favour the Audi...

To anyone who is considering the RS3 I can tell you first hand, just go drive it and see which car you buy.
Yes, that's exactly what I did. Then I went out and bought an M2. 1000% more engaging, and has the option of a 6MT.
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      07-03-2018, 07:53 AM   #83
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RS3...these cars just PLOW.
FWD-biased AWD and 255 rubber on the front with 235 on the rear will do that. It's called physics.

I drove an RS3 a couple of weeks ago. Was really wanting to like it, too, since AWD would be a nice to have during our Rocky Mountain winters. I could not get over just how heavy the RS3 felt in turns, and the throttle response/turbo lag was much more noticeable than I expected. Little sucker was indeed surprisingly fast in a straight line though.

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      07-03-2018, 09:03 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
RS3...these cars just PLOW.
FWD-biased AWD and 255 rubber on the front with 235 on the rear will do that. It's called physics.

I drove an RS3 a couple of weeks ago. Was really wanting to like it, too, since AWD would be a nice to have during our Rocky Mountain winters. I could not get over just how heavy the RS3 felt in turns, and the throttle response/turbo lag was much more noticeable than I expected. Little sucker was indeed surprisingly fast in a straight line though.

M2C now on order
Technically having more tire on the front should reduce understeer. Car I drove had the square setup. still I can't see it helping that much. I think the M2C with a mild tune will be just as fast. N55 M2 stage 2 is already quicker according to my butt Dyno.
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      07-06-2018, 11:19 AM   #85
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Quote:
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Technically having more tire on the front should reduce understeer. Car I drove had the square setup. still I can't see it helping that much. I think the M2C with a mild tune will be just as fast. N55 M2 stage 2 is already quicker according to my butt Dyno.
I've never seen a reverse stagger setup from a factory but 255 front and 235 rear should definitely encourage more oversteer.
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      07-14-2018, 02:21 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Technically having more tire on the front should reduce understeer. Car I drove had the square setup. still I can't see it helping that much. I think the M2C with a mild tune will be just as fast. N55 M2 stage 2 is already quicker according to my butt Dyno.
I have no idea how the RS3 and TT-RS drive but it seems at least possible to create good driving dynamics if you go to enough lengths with that kind of setup (front heavy AWD). The primary example is the Evo X.
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      07-14-2018, 06:00 PM   #87
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The 2018 RS3 is a very fast car, with the APR stage 1 OTS E85 map the car is putting out 470awhp. Bone stock except with software upgrade and e85 the car is running high 10's/low 11's at almost 130mph. 0-60 in the 3.1-3.2 sec range. APR is coming out with a downpipe soon too that will put the car over 500awhp. That said, I still love my M2, wouldnt trade it for the RS3. Sounds better, more fun to drive, and I like the looks better (imho of course). At the price point, it's probably the fastest sedan out there.
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      07-18-2018, 02:15 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 425M2 View Post
The 2018 RS3 is a very fast car, with the APR stage 1 OTS E85 map the car is putting out 470awhp. Bone stock except with software upgrade and e85 the car is running high 10's/low 11's at almost 130mph. 0-60 in the 3.1-3.2 sec range. APR is coming out with a downpipe soon too that will put the car over 500awhp. That said, I still love my M2, wouldnt trade it for the RS3. Sounds better, more fun to drive, and I like the looks better (imho of course). At the price point, it's probably the fastest sedan out there.
What about a used 50k F80 M3 with E85 tune?
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