[fbuk]

Does anyone know if it's ok to use handbrake in turns (ie car moving at some speed) on DCT-equipped cars? Basically question is about driving on snow/ice and drifting when using a handbrake is sometimes a useful trick.

I tried researching it and found some mentions that it is actually ok (as if the DCT would disengage the clutch whenever handbrake is used) like here (http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=565999) and here (http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1004274) but the answers were not really substantiated and most of discussions about handrbake vs DCT are about parking and not the proper use of it anyway

And I don't want to screw up my DCT doing smth like that of course! If the engine keeps revving and transmission is engaged (to the rear wheels), then blocking your rear wheels with a handbrake could be quite a shock unless one fully steps off the throttle etc.

Seems like I am not the only one wondering about that so any insight would be very useful.

[gmzanatta]

Why exactly would you want to do this? For drifting on ice?

Regardless, it shouldn't be a problem to use the handbrake, but you definitely will not have as fine control over it as you would a 6MT.

[milwillfly]

Worth noting also that the handbrake is a tiny drum assembly inside the hub of the disk itself so probably wouldn't stand up to too much abuse.

[fbuk]

Originally Posted by gmzanatta

Why exactly would you want to do this? For drifting on ice?

Regardless, it shouldn't be a problem to use the handbrake, but you definitely will not have as fine control over it as you would a 6MT.

Yes, basically for drifting on ice. I am going through an ice driving course now (a generic one, not by BMW) and while using throttle is perfectly enough for drifting, using a handbrake is just another way and actually a rather controllable one (I used to have an FWD car where it was pretty much the only way to get the car drifting). Also I can see that there's an ice rally technique called "Scandinavian flick" which also involves handbraking in a turn.

Regarding your MT comment, could be true, I've heard references from my instructor that DCT felt slightly more detached compared with MT to them but anyway I've got the DCT (which i like a lot) and wonder if it's safe for it to be used with a handbrake in a turn.

[Aronis]

Originally Posted by milwillfly

Worth noting also that the handbrake is a tiny drum assembly inside the hub of the disk itself so probably wouldn't stand up to too much abuse.

Oh? I'll have to take of a tire and look! My audi's all use the caliper as an Ebrake...as well as all other prior cars with disc brakes including Two Maxima's and a Subaru Wagon and both my '94 325 is and '97 M3. I always do my own brake jobs. LOL. I only let the dealer do those jobs I cannot do myself.

Mike

[nd2002]

Originally Posted by Aronis

Oh? I'll have to take of a tire and look! My audi's all use the caliper as an Ebrake...as well as all other prior cars with disc brakes including Two Maxima's and a Subaru Wagon and both my '94 325 is and '97 M3. I always do my own brake jobs. LOL. I only let the dealer do those jobs I cannot do myself.

Mike

My audi was a PITA with brake jobs, had to VAGCOM the ebrake off when doing rear calipers. Really appreciate an old school brake handle now

[milwillfly]

Originally Posted by Aronis

Oh? I'll have to take of a tire and look! My audi's all use the caliper as an Ebrake...as well as all other prior cars with disc brakes including Two Maxima's and a Subaru Wagon and both my '94 325 is and '97 M3. I always do my own brake jobs. LOL. I only let the dealer do those jobs I cannot do myself.

Mike

Can't find a picture to show it very well but if you check out Imran's post about fitting ceramics, http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1307736 he's put up a good picture weighing one of the rear discs and it clearly shows the drum surface.

[nd2002]

Originally Posted by milwillfly

Can't find a picture to show it very well but if you check out Imran's post about fitting ceramics, http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1307736 he's put up a good picture weighing one of the rear discs and it clearly shows the drum surface.

Interesting. Any clue how aftermarket brake kits or discs work? Do they have BMW-specific P/N with the drum? Is it part of the hat?

[milwillfly]

Originally Posted by nd2002

Interesting. Any clue how aftermarket brake kits or discs work? Do they have BMW-specific P/N with the drum? Is it part of the hat?

Not sure about the M2 specifically, but any setups I've seen that are similar (quite common on Japanese cars), just have the drum machined into the hat as you mentioned and would have thought the aftermarket kits would be the same.

[nd2002]

Originally Posted by milwillfly

Not sure about the M2 specifically, but any setups I've seen that are similar (quite common on Japanese cars), just have the drum machined into the hat as you mentioned and would have thought the aftermarket kits would be the same.

Now I'm very curious I'll start another thread... Thanks!

[Aronis]

I found these parts listed on Autohausaz.com

parking brake actuator and parking brake pad set.

I could not find any thing about a separate hub with pads!

Now I will have to go by the dealer to learn more!

Mike

Sounds like I'll eventually need some "special tool" to DIY brakes DAM IT!

[pruettfan]

Take a look here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=34_2208
It shows that the parking brakes are very small mechanical drum brakes. Having seen this system in person and having worked on it on my E90 I can tell you it is not remotely set up for drifting work. It's designed for what it is normally used for, use if for drifting and you will screw that system up. I don't know about the DCT but I suspect the rear diff won't be happy if you start doing handbrake turns, on the ice will reduce these factors a bit but I wouldn't do with the stock system.

[Aronis]

So it is the same for the manual as well as DCT. I kind of thought that this car with an actual hand brake leaver (unlike most newer cars with electrically actuated parking brake) was designed to do that kind of "sports driving?"

[pruettfan]

Originally Posted by Aronis

So it is the same for the manual as well as DCT. I kind of thought that this car with an actual hand brake leaver (unlike most newer cars with electrically actuated parking brake) was designed to do that kind of "sports driving?"

You won't find any manufacturer who states the purpose of that lever is for sports driving, the only purpose its designed for is parking. Of course we know it can be used to induce some interesting results but its not designed for that at all. I have seen some cars such as rally and drift cars who have aftermarket handles installed for this purpose and they run an additional small disk brake caliper which I believe is the only way to have a reliable and safe system.

BTW, even when the pros teach you drifting at M School they don't instruct the use of the handbrake, they instruct the use of the gas pedal which.

[ried]

I thought people only did e-brake slides in an old POS.

[rouxeny]

I didn't think a handbrake was necessary for the Scandinavian flick. Isn't it all weight transfer and inertia?

[fbuk]

Thanks for all the views guys. To me the original issue is more or less settled: irrespective of what DCT does when handbrake is engaged (and I'd still be worried regarding that as seems like no clear idea on DCT behavior here), the brake itself is not really designed for heavy use (and it will be heavy if applied to a spinning wheel even if I step off the throttle) so should be avoided.

[Reid]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I have seen some cars such as rally and drift cars who have aftermarket handles installed for this purpose and they run an additional small disk brake caliper which I believe is the only way to have a reliable and safe system.

A hydraulic handbrake can also be setup as a "pass through" system where it is in plumbed inline with the standard rear calipers.

Originally Posted by fbuk

Thanks for all the views guys. To me the original issue is more or less settled: irrespective of what DCT does when handbrake is engaged (and I'd still be worried regarding that as seems like no clear idea on DCT behavior here), the brake itself is not really designed for heavy use (and it will be heavy if applied to a spinning wheel even if I step off the throttle) so should be avoided.

The clutch should be disengaged when the handbrake is applied, which is not possible in a DCT.

[Aronis]

You can also use the E-brake to limit wheel spin on ice and snow...this is old school and now the car's electronics does this. The rear brake pads do much less work in stopping the car than the fronts in routine function, usually I change the front pads Two to One vs the rears. So using the Rear E-brake for occasional spin control is fine. And by the way it's an E-brake, not just a parking brake. If your hydraulics fail you have a backup that is DESIGNED to stop your car from a speed....

Mike

[bim2er]

Originally Posted by Reid

A hydraulic handbrake can also be setup as a "pass through" system where it is in plumbed inline with the standard rear calipers.

The clutch should be disengaged when the handbrake is applied, which is not possible in a DCT.

Try neutral.

[MagnusT]

I went out and tested a handbrake turn in the snow. Works great with my DCT. As soon as I pull the handbrake lever the DCT disengages the clutch. And when I release the handbrake the DCT engages the clutch.

[fbuk]

Originally Posted by MagnusT

I went out and tested a handbrake turn in the snow. Works great with my DCT. As soon as I pull the handbrake lever the DCT disengages the clutch. And when I release the handbrake the DCT engages the clutch.

Very interesting. Maybe a stupid question but how did you notice the clutch disengagement?