[bogeyman]

The 1st Brexit punishment for the UK could be zero allocation of any special variant of the M2

Originally Posted by Artemis

+25% Brexit tax for you, haha.

[Advevo]

With lower emission rules i can hardly believe they put the S55 engine in it.

I hope the M2 CS gets the B58 with some M tweaks. Lower emissions even better throttle response.

I have next to my M2 an M140i for the wife and i can tell you i rather have that engine in the M2 CS. S58 even better!

[Q8]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Interesting. If we do a quick math: that's only 18% extra for the M2 CS (or whatever the name may be of the M2 variant) ?!

Theoretical exercise (just to get some ball-park figures, so beware) if applied to current EURO-spec pricing (6MT without options):
- Germany: €57.5K + 18% = ± €68K (my country: ± €70K)
- US: €52.5K + 18% = ± 62K

To my eyes, that looks too good to be true, as that's just 'M2 Performance Edition' money (see here). @Q8, are you sure that your dealer wasn't referring to some kind of M2 ZCP (competition package) instead of M2 CS ?

However, if it would turn out to be effectively the right ball-park figure (which, I repeat, is hard to believe), then that's a tell-tale sign that - apart from the S55 engine - no substantial differences can be expected between base LCI M2 and M2 CS (both getting the LCI treatment).

With such a 'low' price, the M2 CS would be (very) popular, pushing back 'base M2' sales.

Attachment 1591637

Here is my thoughts about his information and price figures :

- i have seen the guy growing from M division sales man to manager over the past 8 years and he has good background info and nearly accurate future guesstimate.

- He was very confident that the new M2 LCI is coming to the showroom this November with minor changes plus couple of new color same engines, and we won't see new engine change until 2019/20 model. More clear information (and maybe order) will spread between July and August.

- a stronger more track focused M2 (CS or whatever it will be) is coming next year with new engine different suspension setup. Too early to tell the exact engine although he guess it may be the S55.

About his price guesstimate:

16/17 M2 $73,000 (DCT sunroof fully loaded)
18 LCI M2 $73,000 may jump to $76,000 depending on what new upgrades it will get.

18 M2 CS not less than $85,000 . And i qoute his words " by all means it will not touch the M4 $100,000+ price barrier " . So my personal guess is 85-95k

Note : the prices are local kuwaiti dinar KWD converted to USD. it may vary from different markets currency exchange, tax etc.

Personally am waiting for the LCI and keeping my eyes on the CS, I don't need a super track modified M2. Am going to drive the car mainly on normal roads and highways.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by Q8

Here is my thoughts about his information and price figures :

- i have seen the guy growing from M division sales man to manager over the past 8 years and he has good background info and nearly accurate future guesstimate.

- He was very confident that the new M2 LCI is coming to the showroom this November with minor changes plus couple of new color same engines, and we won't see new engine change until 2019/20 model. More clear information (and maybe order) will spread between July and August.

- a stronger more track focused M2 (CS or whatever it will be) is coming next year with new engine different suspension setup. Too early to tell the exact engine although he guess it may be the S55.

About his price guesstimate:

16/17 M2 $73,000 (DCT sunroof fully loaded)
18 LCI M2 $73,000 may jump to $76,000 depending on what new upgrades it will get.

18 M2 CS not less than $85,000 . And i qoute his words " by all means it will not touch the M4 $100,000+ price barrier " . So my personal guess is 85-95k

Note: the prices are local and it may vary from different markets currency exchange, tax etc.

Personally am waiting for the LCI and keeping my eyes on the CS, I don't need a super track modified M2. Am going to drive the car mainly on normal roads and highways.

What currency are you calculating based on.

[bogeyman]

Can't get over how beautiful these renderings are:

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by bogeyman

Can't get over how beautiful these renderings are:

Attachment 1595040

Attachment 1595041

Attachment 1595042

Attachment 1595043

Beauty and the Beast in one package.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by bogeyman

Can't get over how beautiful these renderings are

Originally Posted by Gatte

Beauty and the Beast in one package.

Physical constraints of a widebody M2: if an even wider M2 variant fails to physically pass through the production facility of the Leipzig factory, it's unlikely to be built (at least not at that facility). During M2 development, in order to check whether the M2 could be built at the Leipzig factory, dummy parts were stuck on an M235i to widen it to M2 prototype size spec and manually pushed all the way through the production facility (collision test). As it passed everywhere, production was materially possible (see also 11:00-11:42 in this M2 presentation video).

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by bogeyman

Can't get over how beautiful these renderings are

If you expect the forthcoming M2 variant to feature a radical design: it will be more domesticated designwise than most are expecting. "Further progress" as Scott26 would say, or M2+, rather than revolution.

[GimmeanM]

Artemis I believe you have said in previous posts that you think the CS(L) is not going to be intentionally limited production. What makes you think this? EOP schedule? If so, the E46 M3 CSL was a MY2004 while regular production continued to MY2006. 1M's were MY2011 while E82 production continued to MY2013. So if that is your reason, could it be that M GmbH follows suit with a mid production run CS(L)?

Also, others have speculated of a further iteration M2 GTS above an M2 CS(L). Is this based on anything or just purely speculation/hope?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

Artemis I believe you have said in previous posts that you think the CS(L) is not going to be intentionally limited production. What makes you think this? EOP schedule? If so, the E46 M3 CSL was a MY2004 while regular production continued to MY2006. 1M's were MY2011 while E82 production continued to MY2013. So if that is your reason, could it be that M GmbH follows suit with a mid production run CS(L)?
Also, others have speculated of a further iteration M2 GTS above an M2 CS(L). Is this based on anything or just purely speculation/hope?

Catch my drift (and let's assume for a moment that the forthcoming M2 variant will be called 'M2 CS').

The M2 is selling like hot cakes. BMW can make more money with an M2 CS. The M2 CS benefits from all R&D, know how and costs that went into the M2, M3/M4 and 2er LCI + can also surf on the numerous base M2 accolades. BMW and your dealer will gladly sell you an M2 CS or M3/M4 if you hesitate between a base M2 and an M2 CS.

The S55 engine (and its power output) will be the major difference between both brothers. Other differences I expect (apart from a higher price-tag): shaving off a bit of weight (some leightweight materials, but forget about 'leichtbau'; a manual transmission is a weight-saver for sure), an updated exhaust note and some design cues here and there to mark the difference with the base M2. Nothing radical apart from the use of the S55 engine, but enough as total package to read in M2 CS test reviews a zillion variations of the line "At last the M2 has arrived that got perfected the way BMW M must/should have initially intended it".

Let's reason in a rational fashion: better not too many changes, as this allows:

• to keep the price-tag attractive for the M2 CS target customers;
• to preserve the possibility of a future outright hardcore track-oriented pocket-rocket which may feature two seats less than the base M2 and M2 CS and another M2 moniker on the trunk badge; by the way, no sign of life known to me so far, but conceivable to my mind to see any such track-tool surface around 2019 (or even 2020) as final curtain call of the first-generation M2 (F87); alike the 1M (forget for a moment the 135is) as last iteration of the E82: going out with a *bang*.

Speaking of the 1M: during a workshop at the 2011 Detroit Auto Show (January 2011) Dr. Kay Segler (M Division boss who secured the 1M project) was asked to coin the E82 1M in a single phrase. He answered: "The 1M is basically a truncated M3 Competition Package with a manual". Well, to rephrase his words, current M boss Frank Van Meel could eventually coin the M2 CS as "a truncated M4 ZCP".

Brief, an M2 sporting the S55 engine with a ± 400hp haircut and some changes here and there to mark its CS badge + an attractive price-tag for those who like to take a closer look at an M3/M4: say for yourself, with the M2 CS BMW got an ace up its sleeve (rather than an Audi/Merc jack of all trades, master of none specimen) to garner additional kudos from the enthusiasts for having released the best car of its class.

On a final note: a EURO-spec base M2 6MT weighs 1495 kg (unladen) (see the specs here); for a word of caution about unrealistic weight reduction expectations, read what BMW M engineer Jürgen Schwenker replied in a Spring 2011 interview regarding the 1M (see here or here):

"Q: Would it not have been possible to reduce the weight of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé to closer to 1,400 kilos instead of the 1,570 kilos achieved? After all, a number of body parts had to be redeveloped anyway. What would have been the additional cost for the customer if the 1,400 kg target had been reached ?
A: It is unrealistic to expect a weight reduction of 170 kilos on an existing basic vehicle. The M3 CSL and M3 GTS show where the reasonable limits lie. It would be necessary to develop a completely new car from scratch – which would, of course, also mean a completely different price scale. We were determined to offer a real BMW M that would also allow newcomers to have some fun with the strongest letter in the world. That’s why we are choosing to go with intelligent lightweight construction methods, e.g. light wheels and specific avoidance of insulating mats. The chassis of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé also helps optimise weight. Both the two-joint front axle, as well as the five-link rear axle of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé are made almost completely from aluminium. Tubular stabilisers, axle guides made from forged aluminium and aluminium shock absorbers complete the lightweight concept for the wheel suspension. The weight of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé is precisely the same as that of the previous generation of the BMW M3, with comparable output and much higher torque. The vehicle weighs 1,495kg (DIN kerb weight) (with 90% full fuel tank without driver and luggage); the 1,570 kg specified are the EU standard weight (including 75 kg for driver and luggage)."

Maybe BMW M is having a laugh upon reading the above. Or maybe they will mildly smile.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

Artemis I believe you have said in previous posts that you think the CS(L) is not going to be intentionally limited production. What makes you think this? EOP schedule? If so, the E46 M3 CSL was a MY2004 while regular production continued to MY2006. 1M's were MY2011 while E82 production continued to MY2013. So if that is your reason, could it be that M GmbH follows suit with a mid production run CS(L)?

Also, others have speculated of a further iteration M2 GTS above an M2 CS(L). Is this based on anything or just purely speculation/hope?

There is a clear blueprint for bringing out the hottest models at the END of the life cycle.

BMW has done this with the

E30 M3 sport EVO - final year of production
E46 M3 csl -
E92 M3 GTS , CRT
1M


At times BMW has brought a hot model towards the beginning of the model run.

E36 M3 CSL
E36 M3 EVO
F80 M4 GTS

Bringing out a hotter model at the end of the life cycle occurs due to development of the motor and the Chassis. It also tends to function similar to an LCI refresh because of the extra bump in publicity/additional mods/additional Performance.


The folks down the way at Porsche do the same thing right ??

Cayman
Cayman S
Cayman GTS
Bam Cayman GT4 at the end of the run.


So.. indeed we are hoping that BMW Provides some Further progression ala an M2 GTS.

[Gatte]

Artemis As always, very useful information and highly appreciated.

M3 Adjuster If I get the CS and you buy a CSL/GTS a couple years later, you and I'll have problems.

The M4 GTS did not come at the beginning of the model, It came out towards the middle which is right about the time the CS is coming out. If BMW M was working on a GTS/CSL, we should know about it by the time the CS comes out... Right ??

It's going to kill me if the CS comes out and I see spy shots of something resembling a possible CSL/GTS. I waited too long and resisted way too many temptations for this car. Just 3 weeks ago there was a certified 2016 lightly used (13K miles) BMW M4 with complete XPEL, some M performance parts and a manual transmission for 58K at the local dealership. It was Yas Marina blue with the carbon fiber interior trim which is how I would've ordered it if I had the chance. It was a no haggle price but very attractive at that price point. I somehow walked away saying to myself that the best things in life come to those who wait.

I just hope that the CS is not just a 400 HP bump up with some cosmetic changes. It's got to be more than that. It would be coming out at a time when the new GT4 RS could be out and the Audi TTRS would have already established itself.

I was reading an article that BMW just lost it's top position to Mercedes last year. BMW is apparently planning on releasing a plethora of new products in the next few years to get back to the top. The M2 CS has to be one of those that pulls people away from the TTRS and makes the GT4 RS people think a little.

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

There is a clear blueprint for bringing out the hottest models at the END of the life cycle.

BMW has done this with the

E30 M3 sport EVO - final year of production
E46 M3 csl -
E92 M3 GTS , CRT
1M

At times BMW has brought a hot model towards the beginning of the model run.

E36 M3 CSL
E36 M3 EVO
F80 M4 GTS

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I see it is the E46 M3 CSL was mid production run; 2004 from a 2001-2006 run. The 1M is a bit of a mid run; 2011 from a 2007-2013 run (albeit it was at the end of N54 service) and the M4 GTS is mid run as 2016 out of 2014-2019(?).

Point being it seems like there has been some history of the hot model coming out in the middle of production schedule. Just because there is room at EOP doesn't mean that it's going to happen. Not trying to start an arguement, just trying to see if anyone has any evidence to support a GTS level M2 other than the fact that there is room at EOP.

F87 M2 is 2016 - 2020/2021? with the CS speculated to be a MY2019 (NA)... So if there is to be an even more hotter version it would need to be a MY2020 or MY2021. Seems a little bit rushed.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I see it is the E46 M3 CSL was mid production run; 2004 from a 2001-2006 run. The 1M is a bit of a mid run; 2011 from a 2007-2013 run (albeit it was at the end of N54 service) and the M4 GTS is mid run as 2016 out of 2014-2019(?).

Point being it seems like there has been some history of the hot model coming out in the middle of production schedule. Just because there is room at EOP doesn't mean that it's going to happen. Not trying to start an arguement, just trying to see if anyone has any evidence to support a GTS level M2 other than the fact that there is room at EOP.

F87 M2 is 2016 - 2020/2021? with the CS speculated to be a MY2019 (NA)... So if there is to be an even more hotter version it would need to be a MY2020 or MY2021. Seems a little bit rushed.

The BMW E46 is the fourth generation of the BMW 3 Series range of entry-level luxury cars, and was produced from 1998 to 2006. Clearly then a model made in 2004 is not the middle of the production run.

( you considered the full model run for the 1 series but only referred to M3 model years for the E46 3 series)

the 1 series was manufactured from 2004 to 2011 (2013 for certain models in Europe)

once again.. note timing.. both the E46 M3 CSL and the 1M came out in the second from the penultimate year of series production.

regarding your question of " evidence"

There is ZERO confirmed evidence of an M2 beyond the CS.

BMW typically doesn't ANNOUNCE their plans for future models within a lineup until AFTER prototypes are spotted.

so why do some of us feel that there is going to be another model..? Thhis is RUMOR thread after all .. ?

Regarding your comments of " rushed " to squeeze in another model after the CS..... there was a whole lot of " rushing" or should we call it " milking" ? with the E90 M3.

The BMW E90/E91/E92/E93 series is the fifth generation of the BMW 3 Series range of entry-level luxury cars, and was produced from 2004 to 2013

BMW announced the M3 GTS in November 2009 (4 years from end of run)

The M3 CRT (Carbon Racing Technology) was announced in June 2011 as a 2012 model

In mid 2012 the BMW M3 Limited Edition 500 was launched in the UK

The DTM Champion Edition was produced from February 2013, in a limited number of 54 cars, the same number as BMW's victories in DTM. In Germany, the price started at €99,000.00 including VAT.

The M3 Lime Rock Park Edition was a US specific model, with a production limited to 200 cars, all painted in Fire Orange. All 200 of these were 2013 vehicles.

so.... 4 different variants in the last 2 years.. perhaps for different markets...


In other words.. I and @Artemis are not going to ASSUME that BMW is done when it comes to the M2.

The US has received the following
Stock M2
M2 ZL5 - 150 models - note this came out with ZERO FANFARE OR CONFIRMED ANNOUNCEMENT.
M2 CS (upcoming)
M2 further progress? we shall see.

if you are looking for a CS.. then nothing should stop you from getting one.. Some of us would like to see BMW apply the GTS treatment to the BMW M2. Take a look at the BMW M2 Safety car and see how little it differs from an M4 GTS..

roll cage.. check!
no rear seats... check!
performance exhaust... check!
water injection ??
three way adjustable suspension ? Check!
carbon fiber brake package.. check!
front aero.. check!
rear aero.... check!

Still potentially being developed at every single race track it goes to as a pace vehicle? ... CHECK!

personally.. I'm just waiting for them to put a window sticker on a model that I ALREADY see circulating race tracks.
And I don't think it would take much at all to move into production - just like the ZL5

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Q8

Here is my thoughts about his information and price figures :

- i have seen the guy growing from M division sales man to manager over the past 8 years and he has good background info and nearly accurate future guesstimate.

- He was very confident that the new M2 LCI is coming to the showroom this November with minor changes plus couple of new color same engines, and we won't see new engine change until 2019/20 model. More clear information (and maybe order) will spread between July and August.

- a stronger more track focused M2 (CS or whatever it will be) is coming next year with new engine different suspension setup. Too early to tell the exact engine although he guess it may be the S55.

About his price guesstimate:

16/17 M2 $73,000 (DCT sunroof fully loaded)
18 LCI M2 $73,000 may jump to $76,000 depending on what new upgrades it will get.

18 M2 CS not less than $85,000 . And i qoute his words " by all means it will not touch the M4 $100,000+ price barrier " . So my personal guess is 85-95k

Note : the prices are local kuwaiti dinar KWD converted to USD. it may vary from different markets currency exchange, tax etc.

Personally am waiting for the LCI and keeping my eyes on the CS, I don't need a super track modified M2. Am going to drive the car mainly on normal roads and highways.

New motor in 2019/2020? Am I setting myself up for a resale smack down if I pickup a 2018 N55 M2 only to have a B58 come out shortly thereafter? I wouldn't be overly concerned except when we consider the N55 is reaching it's max reliable output and yet the B58 seems to be a tower of power.

[thereisnoSub]

I'm on the list already.

[elitt13]

News spy shot whit largest bodykit ?

: Happyanim:

but no carbone-roof or GTS bonnet and GTS mirror : Mad0259:

[Artemis]

Some interesting info surfaced in the M2 section of the German forum '2erTalk' (sources: here, here and here):

• January 2018: M2 CS ordering process starts
• March 2018: M2 CS goes into production | S55 engine | 410 hp | no limited edition
• March 2019: M2 GTS goes into production | S55 engine | 450 hp | limited edition/production (the '999' figure has been heard, but could change)

Time will tell if the above information is accurate. Interesting, to say the least. First time that I read that the M2 GTS is definitely scheduled. I thought it was just some pipe dream. But actually, this could make sense if you consider BMW M special models history: a limited edition M2 GTS as the final curtain call for the first-generation M2 (end of production: 2020).

Below: screenshot shows that the M2 CS is scheduled to go into production in March 2018 at the BMW Leipzig factory (source: here)
(note 1: "F87CS" is mentioned, rather than "F87COMP" or "F87COMPETITION"; note 2: where is the F87 M2 LCI ?!):

[Benef1cient]

Originally Posted by Artemis

(note 1: "F87CS" is mentioned, rather than "F87COMP" or "F87COMPETITION"; note 2: where is the F87 M2 LCI ?!)

They're suggesting that it switches from N55 to S55 as CS in March and N55 is no longer built.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by Benef1cient

They're suggesting that it switches from N55 to S55 as CS in March and N55 is no longer built.

But it should show the F87 LCI on the list with the F22 LCI which starts
production in July 2017.This list is showing that there won't be an
LCI M2 starting production in July.

[Gatte]

So what I've gathered so far is that there will be an M2CS. The evidence for that is the production schedule and mostly all the cars that we see running around the nurburgring.

Where/What is the evidence for the M2 GTS ?

I am trying to see if there was anything other than someone telling(guessing) that there will be an M2 GTS in 2019.

Also, does that screenshot of the production schedule tell us if the M2/M2 LCI will also be produced while the M2 CS is being produced or does it say that it will be a replacement ??. It looks more and more like there won't be an M2 LCI and that the M2 CS will replace the M2/M2 LCI.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by elitt13

News spy shot whit largest bodykit ?

: Happyanim:

but no carbone-roof or GTS bonnet and GTS mirror : Mad0259:

The body does not seem to be wider than the regular M2. I also checked the camo on these new photos. The right side of the car matches exactly with the first prototype (1:08 minute video) if you look closely.

This is either a duplicate set of photos from when the car was first spotted testing around the ring or there might be changes under the hood that we do not know about.