[bogdiniciu]

Hi all! Hopefully your summer is going great!

I am starting my track journey this year - I did about 5-6 autox events last year and have a track HPDE on the calendar and several more Autox. My car is completely stock, except for some minor aesthetic changes. Also, I only drive the car on weekend backroads or the track. No daily commutes.

My initial goal is to start upgrading the suspension and use stock tires (PSS), wheels, and brakes. I'm not worried about power for now . Is that a good way to think about this? Or should I worry first about wheels/tires/brakes?

Regarding suspension upgrades. After much reading, I am leaning towards camber plates and MPC along with a more performance-oriented alignment. Is this setup going to make a large enough difference from stock? I know there are more aggressive setups but wouldn't want to ruin street driving completely. Does anybody in here have a similar setup? Also, would this setup change the characteristics of the car?

I appreciate all your thoughts!

[M1500Z]

Welcome to the world of tracking! It's highly addictive and [almost] everything is a compromise :P

I think you'll benefit from many who have been down this path before you on this forum. Here are some quick answers which some other more eloquent forum members will likely expand upon.

Stock tires are probably OK for your first track day or so as they'll provide a lower level of grip and thus speeds/limits are likely safer.

At a minimum, I would say get these items

• A decent track pad for the front brakes if front and rear isn't in your budget.
• A higher performing brake fluid—strongly recommend Castrol SRF here

You really need to do brakes because the stock pad and fluid aren't up to track use. This is a place where being over-prepared is better than under as it's a bit of a safety issue—you can drive around a soft car, but you can't really drive around brakes that aren't working.

Bonus items

• Camber plates (and possibly dampers)
• Track alignment
• A stock-sized stickier tire—something in the 200TW area
• Safety gear—seat, belts, HANS, fire, etc. It all helps you go faster

I would, personally, skip the MP suspension and go with Öhlins Road & Track like this kit developed by 3DM Motorsport if you still have a lot of road use. The MP kit is progressive springs and just too soft for track use, and a nicer damper will allow you to have more roll control via spring rate but still have a supple, damped ride. All this will do is make the car better on all but the most punishing of roads (and maybe even there too).

The thing is, anything you do suspension or tire wise will raise the ability of the car, not necessarily the driver so keep that in mind. That said (and here's that compromise coming) camber plates help you save tires but I think doing just camber plates is kind of silly because you'll have to switch things around if/when you move to better dampers and springs.

Oh, and run a 5w40 oil if you're at a good spot for an oil change .

[bkd705]

The above comment basically summarizes it perfectly, I'll just add a few thoughts as well.

If I were to order my mods over again from a stock M2/C, here is what I would start with, in roughly the order I would do them.

1. Brake fluid is a must, even before your first event IMO. M2/C has poor brake cooling overall and you will start having a flat pedal quickly. RBF600 is fine and is like $25 a bottle. In Canada I pay like $150 for a fluid flush including fluids, so 100% worth it. Pads/rotors you'll want eventually, but if its your first few track days you'll be okay on stock, just manage your temps and don't go for 20 minute hot lap sessions, the stock brakes can't handle that. You'll need cool down laps or cut your sessions in half / short.

2. Camber plates make a big difference on this car. The car has no camber adjustment in the front and is a bit camber limited. At least on the local tracks to me you'll destroy your sidewall so quick with stock camber, want to be at like the -2.5 to -3 range. I agree with the above that its a bit silly to do this without suspension, however if you're budget limited I'd almost argue do plates first, as with both Vorshlag and GC you can order just the spring seats separately for like $50-$100 so you can swap later on to a different diameter for coils.

3. Tires make a bigger difference than suspension in my experience. I installed RE71Rs then a few weeks after did BC Racing coils (not the best), and I can honestly say the RE71Rs made a much bigger difference in how the car handled, responded to input, etc than the coilovers did. I would do tires first 100% of the time.

On the suspension, I would +1 the above comment. The Ohlins R&T setup is widely used among track/daily cars local to me for the reasons you mentioned, aggressive enough to be good on track, but still super comfortable and compliant for daily driving duties. Well worth the money and I know some fast fast drivers doing great on an out of the box R&T setup.

tl;dr brake fluid most important, camber plates before tires, tires make bigger difference than suspension, buy ohlins.

[bogdiniciu]

Thank you both! This is gold. There aren't many M2s near me and none that would take it to the track so this is great information.

I will definitely do the brake fluid and the camber plates and was thinking somewhere around -2.5.

My only hesitation towards tires is the cost . What would be a realistic amount of track days (HPDE) that you could go with one set? Keeping in mind that I am a novice. I also heard good things about the RT660, but mostly from Autox.

I will look more into Ohlins R&T. The reason why I was leaning towards the MPC is that they seemed easier to adjust/dial in to the car - I've read a few stories of people having a hard time dialing Ohlins. Would the kit from 3DM be a more "plug & play" alternative?

Thank again!!

[kpaso]

If you are a beginner and want longevity out of tires, nothing beats the RS4. They will last you 10+ days as a beginner. And still work fine on the street.

Upgraded suspension is not needed despite what everyone says, especially at your level (other than camber plates, which are a must).

I ran Dinan springs and stock dampers and still ran better times than dozens of M2s (including competitions) that spent a lot of money on coilovers. If you're still a beginner then they really won't make you that much faster. Only seat time will.

[bentom2]

Agree with the above advice so far.

For your question on tires, lots of folks here in the Pacific Northwest continue to track on Michelin PS4S or Conti Extreme Contact Sports. The tires will be a bit slower, but with camber and a more track oriented alignment, you should be able to get 8-10 days from a set. These come with the advantage of working well in the wet and cold, which are unfortunately a common part of track days here most of the year. They will start to overheat as you get more advanced, but they’re still a good place to start.

For 200TW tires, there are basically two subgroups; time attack/autocross oriented tires, and endurance tires. Sounds like you’re looking for decent longevity, so something tpfrom the latter group will suit you better. Hankook RS4 is a good option for a long lasting 200 tw tire.

Another option I like that isn’t technically a 200tw tire is the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar (240tw, I think).

Both of these options have been good for 8-10 days for me, while the RT660 you mentioned were only good for ~4 days before showing cords when I tried them. RS4 and SC3 also handle heat of long sessions better than the street tires or the RT660, but require a bit of heat to deliver best grip.

[bogdiniciu]

Originally Posted by bentom2

Agree with the above advice so far.

For your question on tires, lots of folks here in the Pacific Northwest continue to track on Michelin PS4S or Conti Extreme Contact Sports. The tires will be a bit slower, but with camber and a more track oriented alignment, you should be able to get 8-10 days from a set. These come with the advantage of working well in the wet and cold, which are unfortunately a common part of track days here most of the year. They will start to overheat as you get more advanced, but they’re still a good place to start.

For 200TW tires, there are basically two subgroups; time attack/autocross oriented tires, and endurance tires. Sounds like you’re looking for decent longevity, so something tpfrom the latter group will suit you better. Hankook RS4 is a good option for a long lasting 200 tw tire.

Another option I like that isn’t technically a 200tw tire is the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar (240tw, I think).

Both of these options have been good for 8-10 days for me, while the RT660 you mentioned were only good for ~4 days before showing cords when I tried them. RS4 and SC3 also handle heat of long sessions better than the street tires or the RT660, but require a bit of heat to deliver best grip.

Thank you so much! I am honestly planning on 3-4 events a year. If I can keep the same tires for a year I may get the approval from the boss (aka wife) haha

Would the RS4 work on the stock wheels?

[bentom2]

Originally Posted by bogdiniciu

Thank you so much! I am honestly planning on 3-4 events a year. If I can keep the same tires for a year I may get the approval from the boss (aka wife) haha

Would the RS4 work on the stock wheels?

I use 18” wheels for my track tires, but it looks like RS4 is available in 245f 275r 35/r19. This would add a bit more understeer, but would work.

The Goodyears are available in the OEM 246/265 sizes.

If your OEM tires are still good, I’d just swap them out when you kill them rather than hurry to upgrade.

I’d use your goodwill with the boss for the pads, fluid and camber plates to get you started.

[bkd705]

Originally Posted by bogdiniciu

Thank you so much! I am honestly planning on 3-4 events a year. If I can keep the same tires for a year I may get the approval from the boss (aka wife) haha

Would the RS4 work on the stock wheels?

RS4 would do great. I'm running them now and they're super common around me. I believe they have an OEM fitment or OEM like where you can run 245 front and 275 rear. I have a good friend local to me who ran that and got so much life out of his tires and was setting super fast times no issues.

RS4s are the kind of tire you can go to 3-4 events to and still do your daily driving, you'll definitely be fine lasting a year, if not into a second season. Plus they're relatively cheap compared to other 200tw options (cough RT660).

Originally Posted by bentom2

I’d use your goodwill with the boss for the pads, fluid and camber plates to get you started.

This.

Originally Posted by bogdiniciu

I will look more into Ohlins R&T. The reason why I was leaning towards the MPC is that they seemed easier to adjust/dial in to the car - I've read a few stories of people having a hard time dialing Ohlins. Would the kit from 3DM be a more "plug & play" alternative?

The Ohlins do come a bit stiff in the rear, but tbh they handle the damping so well it'll still feel super comfortable. That 3DM kit comes with softer springs so that would probably mitigate any issues others are having.

If they're similar in price and both are in budget, I'd go with the Ohlins no questions asked.

But on this topic, I agree with the above poster, do brakes, plates, tires first (in that order imo), suspension is the last piece you need if you're managing budget / partner expectations.

[Lappy]

I did 3 tracks days so far, 2 in the m4c (carbons, stock pads), 1 in the m2c. All on stock brake fluid with no issues. As long as you upgrade the pads, you will not have brake fluid boiling issues based on my experience.

[ZL9M2]

Like others have said.

- I would bleed with proper fluid and use a good set of track pads.... Pagid or Performance Friction.. for open track events. You can swap pads out in about an hour once you have the car in the air.
- I'd also suggest a Schroth harness and probably a QuickJack system as well to make tire and pad swaps easier - - with the money you'll save not buying new suspension.
- Install camber plates set to about -2.5 in front as other have suggested.

Ironically, with the proper camber in front you can get by with using the stock wheels/tires if you want as you come up to speed your first few events; just watch hot pressures. Then at some point decide if you want to go the full route of a second set of dedicated wheels and tires. Only then would I suggest suspension upgrades.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by bogdiniciu

I will look more into Ohlins R&T. The reason why I was leaning towards the MPC is that they seemed easier to adjust/dial in to the car - I've read a few stories of people having a hard time dialing Ohlins. Would the kit from 3DM be a more "plug & play" alternative?

I ran the off the shelf F87 R&T setup without issue and found them very easy to find settings I wanted for street and track use. They're very well made, use linear springs, and are single adjustable which means less things to fiddle with (more adjustments doesn't mean better by any means). I don't see how they'd be anything but easier to get what you want out of them when comparing to the M performance kit.

The 3DM kit I linked to is developed from speaking to many M2 owners (they have others)—if it's something you're interested in, I'd reach out to them.

[///393]

Originally Posted by Lappy

I did 3 tracks days so far, 2 in the m4c (carbons, stock pads), 1 in the m2c. All on stock brake fluid with no issues. As long as you upgrade the pads, you will not have brake fluid boiling issues based on my experience.

M1500Z nailed it. Everything in this thread is on point but this. All tracks and novice drivers are not equally taxing on brakes.

Swapping in Castrol SRF is a cheap safety item and you should absolutely do it.

[OG Shark]

Lots of good advice here. One thing I would like to throw in is to not make the car faster until you are faster than the car. That probably doesn't make the most business sense for someone to say who sells all the parts you are considering like I do - but really to me that is the fastest & best way to learn. The grip threshold is lower - learning how to bring a car back from over the edge is easier accomplished when the speed is slower. Also the consequences are not typically as severe. Continuing with the AutoX can help that as well. Anything you do that increases grip or speed raises that threshold a bit more and requires you to be that much quicker & more precise - honing this skills at slower speeds can really set the foundation as you & the car get quicker.

Brakes are a must do though. At minimum appropriate pads and fluid. I do not begrudge anyone moving immediately to a BBK (they have lots of other benefits besides fade resistance too) but likely have some time before that is necessary. But this is also very track and driver skill set dependent. Just keep very aware of pedal feel & alert for any signs of change.

That being said I understand the mod bug (that is what got be here in the first place). If that is the way you want to go absolutely nothing wrong with that - that process is a lot of the fun too. Just know that it can slow the curve a bit if your priority is skill improvement. A lot to be learned flogging the car while it is still stock & at its slowest - but also a lot of enjoyment to be had improving the car as well. No right or wrong here just more of what you are looking to get out of your track time. I typically have a recommend progression that I give to my local customers that are new to the track - everything from brakes to tires to suspension to power - can get into more detail on that if interested. Not a brand specific sales ad - more general theory stuff.

[bogdiniciu]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

I ran the off the shelf F87 R&T setup without issue and found them very easy to find settings I wanted for street and track use. They're very well made, use linear springs, and are single adjustable which means less things to fiddle with (more adjustments doesn't mean better by any means). I don't see how they'd be anything but easier to get what you want out of them when comparing to the M performance kit.

The 3DM kit I linked to is developed from speaking to many M2 owners (they have others)—if it's something you're interested in, I'd reach out to them.

Thanks for the info! I am definitely going to look into 3DMs kit. I saw two YouTube channels that had ohlins installed and had to go back several times with issues but that probably was the fault of the installers.

[Lappy]

Originally Posted by wilson kop

M1500Z nailed it. Everything in this thread is on point but this. All tracks and novice drivers are not equally taxing on brakes.

Swapping in Castrol SRF is a cheap safety item and you should absolutely do it.

Wouldn't exactly call myself a novice driver if that's what you are hinting at. Just sharing my experience that I've pushed the cars hard as hell in hot weather and never experienced any issue with factory brake fluid boiling. Is there a harm to doing it? No, is it an absolute must, also no.

[///393]

Noticeably absent: Castrol SRF wet boiling point is 518 vs the stock 347 and he’s likely on factory fluid in his 2020.

It’s on sale for $58 a liter at Amazon. https://a.co/d/4KyNv6U

We agree, no harm in doing it

[bogdiniciu]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Lots of good advice here. One thing I would like to throw in is to not make the car faster until you are faster than the car. That probably doesn't make the most business sense for someone to say who sells all the parts you are considering like I do - but really to me that is the fastest & best way to learn. The grip threshold is lower - learning how to bring a car back from over the edge is easier accomplished when the speed is slower. Also the consequences are not typically as severe. Continuing with the AutoX can help that as well. Anything you do that increases grip or speed raises that threshold a bit more and requires you to be that much quicker & more precise - honing this skills at slower speeds can really set the foundation as you & the car get quicker.

Brakes are a must do though. At minimum appropriate pads and fluid. I do not begrudge anyone moving immediately to a BBK (they have lots of other benefits besides fade resistance too) but likely have some time before that is necessary. But this is also very track and driver skill set dependent. Just keep very aware of pedal feel & alert for any signs of change.

That being said I understand the mod bug (that is what got be here in the first place). If that is the way you want to go absolutely nothing wrong with that - that process is a lot of the fun too. Just know that it can slow the curve a bit if your priority is skill improvement. A lot to be learned flogging the car while it is still stock & at its slowest - but also a lot of enjoyment to be had improving the car as well. No right or wrong here just more of what you are looking to get out of your track time. I typically have a recommend progression that I give to my local customers that are new to the track - everything from brakes to tires to suspension to power - can get into more detail on that if interested. Not a brand specific sales ad - more general theory stuff.

Thank you for all the information! I think I am going to progress with the car as I gain experience and become faster.

All this information is gold! It's also interesting how all "track" guys agree on their recommendations

I appreciate all the help.

[MooMooM2]

I had a similar thread a while ago and I got a ton of good advice from people here. Did my first hpde in March, have done 2 now and already have 2 more booked.

I upgraded the brake fluid (castrol sfr) and did stainless lines but to be honest I don’t think the SS lines were needed. As a newbie you not going to be pushing the car all that much and the stock car is more than adequate. The stock pads worked fine but I definitely can see why they won’t be adequate as I gain speed, my second track day I was doing so much better than 1st, braking later and carrying more speed but everything was adequate.

I was on ps4s tires and they were fantastic but if i had pss id kill those before moving to something else. I ran wider tires my second run and the car felt way better but could have also been that i just had more experience and confidence.

I am going to upgrade suspension later this year or early next year, the stock car is totally fine though but I know will be better and camber plates will save tires. Although as a newb you are not really putting that much stress on the tires on the first hpdes I can see some damane on the sidewalls already so they are a must but don’t have to be done right away.

I also want to put a bucket seat as I don’t love the m2 sitting position and as a big dude I am sliding all over the place.

Enjoy the hpdes. You are going to have a blast, its some of the beat days I have had in a while

[M2joey]

A lot of great advice!

Sounds like you are going to stick with the basics - brake fluid and camber plates. I think -2.5 to -2.8 would be a good starting point. Good for starting on the track, you will need more camber as you progress. I would go to -2.0 in the rear.

Pads would be next, and a little more rubber, at least a 255/275-35 setup with something like a 4S. Great all-around tire! Great tire for learning car control as well.

I put my OEM suspension back on and I am still getting faster! Will be changing fairly soon though. Don't worry about a lot at this point other than learning and having fun!

[munja]

I havent seen anyone mention this yet because it might be obvious but make sure that you bring a torque wrench. This weekend was my first track day and I was the only person without it lol.

I have seen a lot of people have spare wheel/tire set. Its prob worth it because if you have a flat tire or something you will need to tow the car and it can get expensive. Im thinking now that I should get a dedicated track set

[keylime503]

I do HPDEs with my M2C about 4 times a year. Yesterday I went to Laguna Seca for the first time after updating my fluid (SRF) and pads (EBC blues). Some perspective from a fellow HPDE newb (~10 days total):

- As others have said, the number one thing is brake fluid. You don’t want to find out the limits of the stock street fluid when you’re going 120mph into a braking zone and your pedal falls to the floor
- Pads are second, but personally I find fluid to be a clear number one if you have to pick one
- As a new track driver building your driver abilities is far more important and useful than building your car’s abilities. To that end, do whatever upgrades allow you to feel safe and confident while pushing your abilities. For me, that was simply fluid and pads. YMMV.
- stock tires are fine for now. Cording the outside edges is a real threat so it’s important to keep the PSIs low. I let out air to 32 PSI when I arrive at the track and I monitor to make sure I never go above 36/37 hot when I come in from sessions. Haven’t had any bad tire wear or cording since I started doing this (knock on wood).
- I run MDM mode on the track. With full traction control on I actually found it extremely annoying and difficult to control the car in high speed corners, it just kicks in way too much.