[slashrawr]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

"2nd tier car" lol anyone that's seen what the B58 puts down saw this coming a year ago. The cars are almost identical in price with all of the handling light years ahead in the M2. Does it really matter? No. The point of these videos is to make you think it does though.

It may not matter to you, but it clearly matters to others. What den525 says is true, it's unusual for the flagship of a model line to be challenged by a car below it especially when the flagship is supposed to be the pinnacle of performance for the line. Can you imagine if the C63 was bettered by the C43? Or if the S3/S4 matched or bested the RS3/RS4? If the M2 didn't look and sound as good as it does, I would consider the M240i instead of waiting for my M2 to be built.

On the plus side, it almost guarantees the M2 will get a power boost in the near future which suits me just fine.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by slashrawr

It may not matter to you, but it clearly matters to others. What den525 says is true, it's unusual for the flagship of a model line to be challenged by a car below it especially when the flagship is supposed to be the pinnacle of performance for the line. Can you imagine if the C63 was bettered by the C43? Or if the S3/S4 matched or bested the RS3/RS4? If the M2 didn't look and sound as good as it does, I would consider the M240i instead of waiting for my M2 to be built.

On the plus side, it almost guarantees the M2 will get a power boost in the near future which suits me just fine.

I'm looking at it from a cost vs overall value perspective.

Consider that none of those models you mentioned have such small price gaps! Not even close. Do you understand that price is related to cost?

And maybe BMW wants you to buy the M240i over the M2! Haha!

[slashrawr]

Not sure what the gap is in the US but in Aus with the exception of the C63 (which speaks volumes for the C43 tbh) they're fairly similar throughout:

M240i=A$74,900 : M2=A$98,900
S3=A$53,100 : RS3=A$78,616
S4=A$110,800 : RS4=A$139,480
C43=A$104,400 : C63=A$155,510

In terms of value, the M240i is incredible - a good looking, well equipped, RWD coupe with outstanding performance not just in it's price bracket but even when compared to more expensive cars. It's the same formula that made the M235i such a hit, just with added go powder in the mix.

Look at it this way, the M2 on the street is no faster and in some instances slower than the M240i, A/CLA45, Focus RS and RS3...all of which are chea...uuuhhh...more affordable. The track is more than likely another story, and I think that's it's differentiator. It may be a credible value proposition compared to the M3/M4 (at least over here it is) but compared to it's direct competitors it's definitely not.

[den525]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

"2nd tier car" lol anyone that's seen what the B58 puts down saw this coming a year ago. The cars are almost identical in price with all of the handling light years ahead in the M2. Does it really matter? No. The point of these videos is to make you think it does though.

Isn't that the problem? Even people don't think it's "2nd tier" when it clearly should be?

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by den525

Isn't that the problem? Even people don't think it's "2nd tier" when it clearly should be?

You're not making a good case for the distinction. It simply doesn't matter considering the price difference. "Just because" doesn't cut it.

[den525]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

You're not making a good case for the distinction. It simply doesn't matter considering the price difference. "Just because" doesn't cut it.

Price difference is still pretty big

[slashrawr]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

You're not making a good case for the distinction. It simply doesn't matter considering the price difference. "Just because" doesn't cut it.

How does a 25% price difference not matter?

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by slashrawr

How does a 25% price difference not matter?

It would matter if that were true.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by slashrawr

Not sure what the gap is in the US but in Aus with the exception of the C63 (which speaks volumes for the C43 tbh) they're fairly similar throughout:

M240i=A$74,900 : M2=A$98,900
S3=A$53,100 : RS3=A$78,616
S4=A$110,800 : RS4=A$139,480
C43=A$104,400 : C63=A$155,510

That price differential for the 240i to M2 is nothing like they are in Canada. Just priced the 240i online at BMW Canada and for similar options it comes to $7500 higher for the M2.

[slashrawr]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

It would matter if that were true.

Never been that good at arithmetic but:

A$83,854.73/A$110,430.28=0.7593454440213318 or ~75% making the difference 25%?



Note: Includes on-roads costs for WA.

So does it matter now?

[Verdi]

You put 20k on extras on the M2 but only 11k extras on the M240i when the M2 is more well equipped from the start.

Originally Posted by slashrawr

Never been that good at arithmetic but:

A$83,854.73/A$110,430.28=0.7593454440213318 or ~75% making the difference 25%?



Note: Includes on-roads costs for WA.

So does it matter now?

[slashrawr]

Originally Posted by Verdi

You put 20k on extras on the M2 but only 11k extras on the M240i when the M2 is more well equipped from the start.

Both those prices are without any options on either car. Those "extras" are government charges (hence the note at the bottom stating they include "on-roads"). The prices are what we call "drive-away" prices, i.e. the total amount you pay to drive it out the showroom.

In terms of equipment, what you say is not entirely true. The M240i comes with everything the M2 does sans the M diff. In fact it comes with more stuff, adaptive suspension and front parking sensors for example.

Mechanical LSD is a roughly A$5,500 option in case you're interested.

Edit: Apologies, the M240i also misses out on Apple Car Play. That's a $500 option.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by slashrawr

Look at it this way, the M2 on the street is no faster and in some instances slower than the M240i, A/CLA45, Focus RS and RS3...all of which are chea...uuuhhh...more affordable. The track is more than likely another story, and I think that's it's differentiator. It may be a credible value proposition compared to the M3/M4 (at least over here it is) but compared to it's direct competitors it's definitely not.

Ok, let's see. How fast do you need to go on public roads?

I'm about to pull the trigger on my second M2 today. I miss it. It made me feel special.

I considered the M140i xDrive as a practical alternative that I could easily drive all year. Now I need to get a winter beater next fall.

Why I want an M2 ahead of a it's slightly cheaper sibling:

- It doesn't come with rubbish RFT tyres.
- Steering feel, brakes, chassi, sound. Ie, how it feels.
- Less depreciation.
- How it looks!

I even chose a manual gearbox despite it making the car quite a lot slower.

The M240i is a pointless alternative to me. Looks so plain compared to the M2 and have many of the same drawbacks.

The thing is. The M2 is special. The M240i is a great car but it's not special.

Still, I would like the M2 to be faster. Of course. I'm a man and figures like that means something to us. We've been comparing stats and numbers since we were young boys.

[Verdi]

The prices are different in different markets but I see your point. The M240i is a truly great car. In many ways it's much better on public roads. It's more comfortably, quiter, no real difference in terms of acceleration etc etc.

I can't really explain why I still want the M2. I tried to in my earlier post.

Some of it is also down to outright narcissism. I admit. How people tend to look at and comment on the M2. It just feels better pulling up at the gas station in the M2 or the super market. "Great car you have there!" and stuff like that.

Originally Posted by slashrawr

Both those prices are without any options on either car. Those "extras" are government charges (hence the note at the bottom stating they include "on-roads"). The prices are what we call "drive-away" prices, i.e. the total amount you pay to drive it out the showroom.

In terms of equipment, what you say is not entirely true. The M240i comes with everything the M2 does sans the M diff. In fact it comes with more stuff, adaptive suspension and front parking sensors for example.

Mechanical LSD is a roughly A$5,500 option in case you're interested.

Edit: Apologies, the M240i also misses out on Apple Car Play. That's a $500 option.

[slashrawr]

I'm not necessarily talking about top-end speed, but instead point-to-point or around corners where you have to stay in a lane and not take the perfect racing line. In those situations the AWD brigrade are just more usable at a rapid pace by more of the population.

Exactly Verdi! And I totally agree! The M2 is special! And that's why I'm waiting for one. I drove the M2 and RS3 within an hour of each other and while the RS3's performance blew my mind, the M2 just had that something and I couldn't stop thinking about it...so I ordered one.

[slashrawr]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Some of it is also down to outright narcissism. I admit. How people tend to look at and comment on the M2. It just feels better pulling up at the gas station in the M2 or the super market. "Great car you have there!" and stuff like that.

HAHAHA! Massive respect for admitting that mate.

[Verdi]

I'm a big fan of xDrive and have it on my F11 M550d. It's quite an impressive machine. Well over 2 tons and makes 0-100 km/h in 4.7 seconds, 381 hp (euro, PS). It's got decent hydraulic assisted power steering, xDrive, super comfortable and practical, M-tuned chassis and brakes. All that with great mileage. It's just barely thirstier than my old F31 330d xDrive.

But since it's a diesel it lacks sound and character. It's a great car on the highways but on twisties it's just too large and heavy. Plus it understeers. Maybe partially down to the xDrive.

I will keep it as our family car though. It's just amazing on long trips on fast straight roads. You can drive it really fast without the wife realizing how fast we're going.

Originally Posted by slashrawr

I'm not necessarily talking about top-end speed, but instead point-to-point or around corners where you have to stay in a lane and not take the perfect racing line. In those situations the AWD brigrade are just more usable at a rapid pace by more of the population.

Exactly Verdi! And I totally agree! The M2 is special! And that's why I'm waiting for one. I drove the M2 and RS3 within an hour of each other and while the RS3's performance blew my mind, the M2 just had that something and I couldn't stop thinking about it...so I ordered one.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by slashrawr

HAHAHA! Massive respect for admitting that mate.

Well, that's the elephant in the room, isn't it?

Actually I don't have any problems admitting that. I see it as completely normal.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by slashrawr

Note: Includes on-roads costs for WA.

So does it matter now?

In Aus, yes for the out the door cost.
In USA, the two cars are about the same MSRP after optioning.
In Canada, you can't add LSD, but MSRP is around $5000CAD diff or like 8%
In Australia, you also can't add LSD, but the MSRP price diff is around 15% after optioning. (TPM and ConnectedDrive extras)
Yes, Aus taxes are rather high - also looks like MSRP is higher than other markets. In USA you can buy a competition pkg M4 for less than the Australian out-the-door M2 price. In Australia, however, you can buy two M240i's for the cost of one M4 Comp!

So for Aus yes it matters to a buyer, because you are getting much less value for your dollar.
For Canada and USA it simply does not matter. Certainly the Audi and Mercedes analogies are unwarranted.

[den525]

Originally Posted by slashrawr

I'm not necessarily talking about top-end speed, but instead point-to-point or around corners where you have to stay in a lane and not take the perfect racing line. In those situations the AWD brigrade are just more usable at a rapid pace by more of the population.

Exactly Verdi! And I totally agree! The M2 is special! And that's why I'm waiting for one. I drove the M2 and RS3 within an hour of each other and while the RS3's performance blew my mind, the M2 just had that something and I couldn't stop thinking about it...so I ordered one.

M2 is a great car don't get me wrong. It's somewhat special (for now)...

But people who say it won't depreciate as much that's somewhat true as well but not the same way as 1M as it's not limited, it'll most likely take a hit if the rumours are true, that the M2 will get the M3/M4 engine, in standard form (not csl).

At the end of the day there will always be a case on which car is better depending on needs and wants.

I've said before elsewhere, if I didn't have the M235i I would definitely get the M2... but would I upgrade to the M2? Never. If my car was written off would I jump into the M2? Probably not.

Personally I don't think the M2 is special enough if you've owned the same generation M235i.

Just my point of view

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by den525

Personally I don't think the M2 is special enough if you've owned the same generation M235i.

Hmm, drove 7500mi on an '16 M235i over several months before I bought the M2. These are night and day machines.

[matto6]

Has anyone driven both the US spec 240i and M2? Is the 240i steering indeed worse than the.M2?