07-24-2017, 09:41 AM | #45 |
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I am one of those "both" guys, and own both. Despite comparo threads like these, I really don't think the two cars are all that comparable. Two different missions mean two different cars. Both are well executed for their missions.
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07-24-2017, 11:59 AM | #46 |
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I don't own any P-cars but I've had a 2007 GT3 RS parked in my garage for the last several years and a 2017 GT3 RS added to it last summer. (My friend has too many cars and needs a place to park his cars)
The keys are stored at my house, so I've had access to drive these cars daily if i wanted but I choose not to because: 1. They receive too much attention 2. They aren't that practical to drive around for daily driving to do errands These are solely cars that you get in and drive around just for the sake of driving around. With family duties and other priorities in life, I just don't have the time to drive around for fun anymore. They are sick cars, but I can't enjoy them to their full potential. I'm just about to pick up my M2 and I'm stoked to be able to pick that up and drive it around as a daily driver. I'll be able to do everything I want with it. Sidenote: I went to a wedding last weekend and I was going to pose it up by showing up in one of the RS, but my wife wouldn't have been able to get in the car without falling over in her dress. We ended up taking the SUV. lol |
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07-24-2017, 07:50 PM | #47 | |
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07-25-2017, 11:34 AM | #49 |
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FWIW I am going to go the 991 C2S route against all better judgement. Here is the little pros/cons list I made for my wife.
911: Pros: 1. True sports car (that what I wanted). 2. I will always want one, that will never go away. 3. Better build quality. 4. Reliable. 5. Looks amazing. 6. Relatively low key depending on color choice (grey scale). 7. Depreciation not too much of an issue since I will keep it for a very long time anyways. 8. No strong desire for mods. 11. Better ride than the M2, I would get one with PASM. The M2 is a bit harsher. Cons: 1. Cost. 2. Service and consumables costs more than the M2. 3. Feeling uncomfortable because of perception. 4. Depreciates more than the M2 but still less than any other car brand out there. It’s more expensive so there is more room to depreciate. 5. It’s preowned. 6. I might wind up with the dual clutch instead of a manual based on the availability 7. The infotainment system is not as good as BMW’s. M2: Pros: 1. Lower Cost. 2. Fun to drive. 3. Its width is fun to look at. 4. Brand spanking new. 5. Free oil changes/basic service for 3 years. 6. Less depreciation, price point lower to start with. 7. I like the infotainment system. I am not sure how the new iDrive is though. 8. It’s a manual. 9. One single large trunk in the back is more practical than the trunk in the front of the 911. Cons: 1. I have never been in love with the styling, hence the black to hide some of the features. The hips are sexy but the rest is a 2 series with fangs up front. 2. It’s not the car I have always wanted since being a kid. 3. Build quality is not as good. 4. Ride quality is harsher, I don’t mind but you might. 5. Stands out more because it isn’t as common and the styling is more aggressive. 6. I won’t be 70 years old a regret never having one.
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07-25-2017, 08:54 PM | #52 | |
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Personally, my only requirement would be one of the new 911s with a turbo - I not only love torque, but I need it in my daily drive. Still, not one issue with your list - sounds spot on! Good luck and enjoy!
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07-25-2017, 10:14 PM | #53 | |
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Lots of thoughts, but not sure they would be relevant to your decision, because the 997.2 and 991 are TOTALLY different 911's, which is something that hasn't really been emphasized enough in this thread. IMHO, the 997.2 is the last of the true 'driver's car' 911's that Porsche produced. In short, the 997.2 worked out all the kinks from the 996 and 997.1 and was the most reliable, water cooled, hydraulic steering 911 ever made. Had my GTS been a 6MT, I wouldn't have ever sold it-- it will likely appreciate in value in the next 10 years if I had to guess. The problem is that the 997.2 --especially the GTS-- is a bit of a harsh ride if you live in an area with rough roads, like I do. Consequently, I didn't feel like I really could enjoy the car the way it was meant to be enjoyed. The most fun I had was one track weekend in 2015. That segues into the 991, which is a more 'civilized' ride than the 997.2, model for model (base, S, GTS, and even the GT3). The 991 is far more of a GT car than the 997.2 was, which has its pros and cons. It's definitely more suited to be a DD, even on questionable roads like mine. Much like Transcon, I too am of the opinion that I would like to own and drive as many great cars in my life as I can. Consequently, when I sold my porsche, I bought a new 6th gen Camaro 2SS-- yes a camaro-- after I read the rave reviews on Motor trend and Car and Driver, when it beat out the M4 in multiple tests on the road and track. I didn't give a fu*k what any friend of mine thought about it or how I would like, etc, and that's my best advice to anyone else on here contemplating what they should get next. I've owned 2 porsches and I'm very blessed/fortunate that I will be able to own several more if I so desire. In fact, the next generation GT4 will be in my near future for 2019. But in the meantime, I'm pulling the trigger on the M2. I have a week 38 build and placed my deposit last week, which means I will be selling my camaro after only a year. Why you ask? Because while I'm glad I took the plunge with my first american muscle car, I like but don't love my camaro, and I've been semi obsessed with the M2 since last year when Jeremy Clarkson declared his favorite M car in over 20 years. I want to go back to a car that feels tossable, but still has plenty of torque. Having recently driven the M2 in the rain in Atlanta on less than stellar roads, I really really liked it. It didn't feel harsh at all, but then again I'm coming from a Camaro, and before that a 997.2 GTS. The clutch is far more linear than my Camaro, and the car felt so nimble and responsive. I also really liked sitting up a bit higher c/w my previous Porsches or the Camaro. Not everyone cares about that, but for me, it's more confidence inspiring to sit a bit higher, especially when you're surrounded by rednecks in pick ups. |
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07-25-2017, 10:16 PM | #54 | |
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Their depreciation is staggering-- especially the new 991's. If I was you, I would look for a 991.1 S or GTS, used/CPO. I bought my 997.2 GTS 18 months old with only 4500 miles on it and saved nearly $40K off sticker. $130K car I picked up for $92K. |
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07-26-2017, 04:04 AM | #55 |
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This is off topic to the OP but did you buy two new fun 2017 cars and then sell them already? What happened? The Camaro SS and the M3?
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07-26-2017, 08:46 AM | #56 | |
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I sold my 911 GTS last summer and then after getting a bit of the run around regarding the M2 from my local dealer, decided to instead take the plunge on the Camaro 2SS. I bought a 2016 last September as part of the Chevy year end rebate program and got $13K off sticker, so it was hard to say no. Now, less than a year later, I'm going to get the M2 (Nov delivery I'm guessing based on it being a week 38 build), and trade in/sell the Camaro. |
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07-26-2017, 12:28 PM | #57 | |
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07-26-2017, 12:59 PM | #58 |
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07-26-2017, 01:29 PM | #59 | ||
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My wife and I were a one car family when we lived in Houston. I got a job in E Texas that required me to get a vehicle to commute and I figured a truck would be the most practical. I got a great deal on the silverado toward the end of 2015. My dad's 20 year old 4runner was on its last leg I took him to a BMW dealership (we grew up poor, he never imagined being able to step foot into a BMW dealership so I wanted something special for him) and we walked out with a 328i. I drove it a few times and loved how great it felt so I naturally wanted one. April 2016 I traded in the truck (broken even since I bought it at such a great price) I bought a 435i and loved it, BSM with red interior. Nicknamed Cow Blood because that was the first thing I could think of when I saw the interior and was initially disgusted. However, it kept throwing the check engine light and had a vacuum leak that the delaership couldn't figure out how to fix for more than a couple hundred miles. The last time they fixed it, everything seemed to work again. Rather than always worrying about if/when it would fail again or go through the lemon or buy back process, I decided to trade it in. I had it for 4 months, put less than 2k miles on it, and only got to drive it for half of the time I actually owned it. I decided that I wanted an M3. I talked with several dealerships and finally found one with a CA that was fair and gave me great service. Autobahn BMW (Brian Hodge) in Ft. Worth. He gave me a fair value on my trade in and a fair deal on the M3 with a fantastic interest rate. I did the deal through text and only spent 30 minutes at the dealership to sign. Up to this point, I have never even driven a the F80 M3. I was in love. It was fast, the chassis felt great and it was practical. Well, after having it for 6 months, we were having some issues with the neighbors next door (renters) and talked with the owner who offered to sell us the property at a fair price. Now we were facing a potential long term cash flow issue. I was also having an itch for a 6MT and a coupe. The Camaro was the cheapest option that ticked all of the boxes. I hate that car and still do. The blind spots were bad 98% of the time, but during that 2% where there is a merge lane, I was basically counting cars to guess the traffic pattern to guess when to merge. On top of that, the quality was horrible and the dealership was impossible to work with. Exterior quality issues: the paint is thinner than paper, the body panel gaps aren't uniform, the bumper was wavy, the sheet metal was very soft. Interior issues: I had no where to keep my sunglasses in the case because there wasn't enough storage, the padding under the leather on the seat shifted to where the plastic seat frame was right against it which lead to a lot of wear (and very soon to be hole), and the carpet was so thin and cheap, I could never get it as clean as I wanted. I do love the sound and feel of the LT1. So one day, I pitched the idea of the M2 to my wife and concurrently shooting Brian at Autobahn a text. I did the math and based on the very fair trade in value he gave me and the cost of the M2, we would be at a near wash. I handed the keys over as soon as I could to keep from any additional wear and tear from happening and to get rid of it before the MY18s would destroy its value. I got rid of the Camaro and got a week 33 allocation. Then things get complicated again. The truck that I am rebuilding (I swapped out the engine with a crate motor) is taking longer to finish than I expected and my wife had to take me to work every day. I bought a 1999 boxster a couple of weeks to drive around in the mean time because I always wanted to try a convertible and wasn't manly enough to get a miata. Well, I was really impressed with the Boxster. It is 20 years old and everything in it works flawlessly! Aside from the seats being worn and the exterior plastic trim fading, it was in spectacular shape. The car handles well, the engine takes the beating I give it, and I was amazed by the quality. Well now all of my hesitations about getting a Porsche in the past due to quality is starting to go away. To compound the issue, the renters next door moved out and we were able to do a more thorough inspection of the house and realized that it was not something we could afford to get into. It was far from an investment grade rental and even as a house to buy and keep for the family, it is a poor way to spend money. Let's put it this way, buying a 911 that will depreciate is a better purchase form a cash flow and equity stand point than the house. So the decision to forgo on the house freed up some long term cash flow (we are paying the rent on it until the owner sells it to make it right, I didn't want to put him in a bad position). Well, I did the pros/cons break down and reviewed our financials and realized that it was possible to get into a 911. I texted Brian to cancel the M2 order and enlisted his help to find me a nice CPO 991 and that's where I am today. All of the vehicles purchased were brand new but I did get a great deal on them. I wound up losing a total of $35k on all 4 vehicles which is a lot but not terrible. THe truck was a well calculated purchase out of necessity, the 435i and M3 were passion purchases, the switch to the Camaro involved a lot of NPV calculations (which was pointless since I didn't stick with the plan long enough for it to pay off), and now the 911 is a passion/calculated purchase.
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07-26-2017, 02:46 PM | #60 | |
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Yikes! I appreciate the time you took to write the story! Good luck getting that 911 you want! |
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07-26-2017, 04:41 PM | #61 | |
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Just finished the details, going to pick it up on Saturday! 11k miles one owner, 2014 C4S with PDK, Sport Chrono, PASM, Sport Exhaust, Power Sport Seats, Premium Package Plus, PDLS, Sunroof, etc etc. Checked almost all of the same boxes I would have if I were ordering it new.
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07-26-2017, 06:11 PM | #62 | |
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It won't be as fun as a 6MT boxter, or possibly even the M2 in a 6MT, but it will be a great all around sports/GT car. And since it's a 4S, you won't have to worry up there in East texas the few times the roads ice over in the winter. Regarding quality issues you mentioned in the longer post you wrote, many non Porsche people still have this misconception. Porsche reached a low point with the 996, but then worked very hard to fix things with the 997.1, which they did. By the time the 997.2 rolled out, all the IMS issues with the .1 had been worked out and Consumer Reports had started ranking the 997.2 as one of the most reliable sports you could buy. That had already long been the case with Porsche's mid engine cars-- the cayman and boxter, which both had been rated extremely highly for reliability on consumer reports. Admittedly, I don't know much of anything about the reliability of the 991's |
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07-27-2017, 01:00 PM | #63 | |
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I love mine but I often think to myself, WTF. |
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07-28-2017, 08:45 AM | #64 |
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What? The thing is a 4-door, 5-seat sedan that's as big as a 15-year-old 5-series, with a decent size trunk, too. Far more practical than a lot of other enthusiast cars out there. It's not an SUV, but I'm betting it's the perfect daily driver for a lot of people.
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07-31-2017, 09:40 PM | #65 | |
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08-01-2017, 11:27 AM | #66 |
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The black one fell through. I didn't feel comfortable with how the dealership was handling the deal. Bought this blue one instead, picking it up on Wednesday. I'm going to also pick up this GTI today to use as a DD! Fantastic week!
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