[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

Im waiting to hear your point. Fact is they shouldn't be taking money off people for something they genuinely know nothing about. What are you agreeing to exactly? To the potential of not getting what you want? For them to try and sell you something else if the product doesn't materialise?

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Obviously you're simply reserving a space for an eventuality. The terms are the agreement - adults can do things like that. They don't keep a deposit if it doesn't materialize.

Agreed,there's no smoke without fire regarding the CS,same went for the rumours with the M2 and people who had deposits were given first refusal and those that hadn't were left nashing their teeth.

I'm sure the same will happen with the CS.I've got a deposit down and confirmed second on the list.I can pull out anytime for whatever reason before it goes to build,so no big deal.

There's no way I'd entertain putting a deposit down with a dealer who had already taken 4/5 allocation deposits though.That will almost certainly lead to disappointment.

[allthatisntnow]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

Agreed,there's no smoke without fire regarding the CS,same went for the rumours with the M2 and people who had deposits were given first refusal and those that hadn't were left nashing their teeth.

I'm sure the same will happen with the CS.I've got a deposit down and confirmed second on the list.I can pull out anytime for whatever reason before it goes to build,so no big deal.

There's no way I'd entertain putting a deposit down with a dealer who had already taken 4/5 allocation deposits though.That will almost certainly lead to disappointment.

Oh yeah, I'm not going to try to argue that this system wouldn't work with a normal production car (M2) - you can still get them if you want to wait, not a hardship. Its limited run allocations with the potential for flipping, backstabbing and disappointment where it falls into questionable territory with dealers being disingenuous as to who stands a chance at getting one. Try playing the Porsche GT game in the Uk and you'll know what i mean.

My view on it in this instance is:

If the sole purpose were to show serious intent to purchase, the $1k figure that getting bandied about seems a bit pathetic in relation to the expected value of the vehicle; making it refundable if you change your mind nullifies the whole point in showing commitment.

Even handing over a cash deposit is still an expression of interest (at the end of the day the car doesn’t even exist, although as you say, no smoke without fire....unless its a smoke machine). They have no obligation to sell and you have no obligation to buy. Any dealer wording the documentation otherwise would be foolish and i can’t see them confirming otherwise unless you are their No.1 customer. If the dealer can't supply the car, they would simply need to refund your money.

The “first in line” stance: you’re relying on them being honourable. Yes, you could take them to court if they sold the allocation to someone else, but there is always a chance you’d lose - and lose a lot. Which just wouldn’t be a tenable position if you walked away just disappointed and not at a financial loss.

Id love for people to get their allocations doing this if/when the car materialises, I'm just glass half empty on this approach from a consumer standpoint as i think it can be a set up for disappointment. That is all. Of course I'm sure the people doing this are fully aware of this potential and there is no big financial risk involved. Ive expressed my interest like many others, just without handing over any cash, at the dealership I've bought cars from. As to whether id be in a better position giving them money now i don't believe so. First world problems


TL;DR - I don’t agree with the practice in this instance

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

Oh yeah, I'm not going to try to argue that this system wouldn't work with a normal production car (M2) - you can still get them if you want to wait, not a hardship. Its limited run allocations with the potential for flipping, backstabbing and disappointment where it falls into questionable territory with dealers being disingenuous as to who stands a chance at getting one. Try playing the Porsche GT game in the Uk and you'll know what i mean.

My view on it in this instance is:

If the sole purpose were to show serious intent to purchase, the $1k figure that getting bandied about seems a bit pathetic in relation to the expected value of the vehicle; making it refundable if you change your mind nullifies the whole point in showing commitment.

Even handing over a cash deposit is still an expression of interest (at the end of the day the car doesn’t even exist, although as you say, no smoke without fire....unless its a smoke machine). They have no obligation to sell and you have no obligation to buy. Any dealer wording the documentation otherwise would be foolish and i can’t see them confirming otherwise unless you are their No.1 customer. If the dealer can't supply the car, they would simply need to refund your money.

The “first in line” stance: you’re relying on them being honourable. Yes, you could take them to court if they sold the allocation to someone else, but there is always a chance you’d lose - and lose a lot. Which just wouldn’t be a tenable position if you walked away just disappointed and not at a financial loss.

Id love for people to get their allocations doing this if/when the car materialises, I'm just glass half empty on this approach from a consumer standpoint as i think it can be a set up for disappointment. That is all. Of course I'm sure the people doing this are fully aware of this potential and there is no big financial risk involved. Ive expressed my interest like many others, just without handing over any cash, at the dealership I've bought cars from. As to whether id be in a better position giving them money now i don't believe so. First world problems


TL;DR - I don’t agree with the practice in this instance

By your logic, the dealer could take a deposit even after BMW officially announces the car and still screw you over. You could go to court and still end up losing.

You're implying that the logical way to go about doing this is to go into a dealership after the car is announced and try buying it then. In such a scenario, the dealership could still take your deposit and give it to someone else when your number comes up. Again, you go to court and end up losing.

We're all functioning under an implied assumption that most of the dealerships that want to remain functional and profitable cannot go about doing this.

If one of them did do it, I'd have 3-4 more who probably would not.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

Oh yeah, I'm not going to try to argue that this system wouldn't work with a normal production car (M2) - you can still get them if you want to wait, not a hardship. Its limited run allocations with the potential for flipping, backstabbing and disappointment where it falls into questionable territory with dealers being disingenuous as to who stands a chance at getting one. Try playing the Porsche GT game in the Uk and you'll know what i mean.

My view on it in this instance is:

If the sole purpose were to show serious intent to purchase, the $1k figure that getting bandied about seems a bit pathetic in relation to the expected value of the vehicle; making it refundable if you change your mind nullifies the whole point in showing commitment.

Even handing over a cash deposit is still an expression of interest (at the end of the day the car doesn’t even exist, although as you say, no smoke without fire....unless its a smoke machine). They have no obligation to sell and you have no obligation to buy. Any dealer wording the documentation otherwise would be foolish and i can’t see them confirming otherwise unless you are their No.1 customer. If the dealer can't supply the car, they would simply need to refund your money.

The “first in line” stance: you’re relying on them being honourable. Yes, you could take them to court if they sold the allocation to someone else, but there is always a chance you’d lose - and lose a lot. Which just wouldn’t be a tenable position if you walked away just disappointed and not at a financial loss.

Id love for people to get their allocations doing this if/when the car materialises, I'm just glass half empty on this approach from a consumer standpoint as i think it can be a set up for disappointment. That is all. Of course I'm sure the people doing this are fully aware of this potential and there is no big financial risk involved. Ive expressed my interest like many others, just without handing over any cash, at the dealership I've bought cars from. As to whether id be in a better position giving them money now i don't believe so. First world problems


TL;DR - I don’t agree with the practice in this instance

I understand your sentiment but don't particularly agree.

A deposit can be seen as a legal contract between purchaser and seller whereas an expression of interest by way of verbal acknowledgement could be construed either as a loose enquiry or even frippery,as a spur of the moment impetuous act.

Under-selling somebody with a deposit is fraught with uncertainty now precedent has been set in law after Porsche had their fingers burnt and I imagine would have second thoughts to do this again[Maybe].

The recent example gives credence to this,seen here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news...-sold-his-car/

At least this is my view in the World of cars,my opinion being that I get a sense of a deal being made with money,a permanence that unfortunately just can't be achieved with a handshake anymore.

[kezm2]

Someone has probably mentioned it but the M4 GTS (in the UK certainly) was done on a ballot / selection process not an ordered queue.

[allthatisntnow]

Originally Posted by Gatte

By your logic, the dealer could take a deposit even after BMW officially announces the car and still screw you over. You could go to court and still end up losing.

You're implying that the logical way to go about doing this is to go into a dealership after the car is announced and try buying it then. In such a scenario, the dealership could still take your deposit and give it to someone else when your number comes up. Again, you go to court and end up losing.

We're all functioning under an implied assumption that most of the dealerships that want to remain functional and profitable cannot go about doing this.

If one of them did do it, I'd have 3-4 more who probably would not.

Thats not exactly what I'm angling at. If its an official announcement and they are in a position to give you a build slot, the paperwork and handing over of a deposit become a lot more concrete. You're actually buying something from them that they're agreeing to sell and in a position to sell. Handing over money without being able to legally confirm an order in the system has much less weight and grey areas. As I've said, its an issue of trust and it very well could work provided you know the dealership to be honourable to their agreements.

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

I understand your sentiment but don't particularly agree.

A deposit can be seen as a legal contract between purchaser and seller whereas an expression of interest by way of verbal acknowledgement could be construed either as a loose enquiry or even frippery,as a spur of the moment impetuous act.

Under-selling somebody with a deposit is fraught with uncertainty now precedent has been set in law after Porsche had their fingers burnt and I imagine would have second thoughts to do this again[Maybe].

The recent example gives credence to this,seen here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news...-sold-his-car/

At least this is my view in the World of cars,my opinion being that I get a sense of a deal being made with money,a permanence that unfortunately just can't be achieved with a handshake anymore.

As to the Porsche case, the guy won (eventually) but the damages and legal costs expressed weren't confirmed to cover his legal bills in their entirety. 50k would be pretty cheap for a protracted multi-year legal battle ("but the final bill is likely to run into six figures" according to some coverage of the case) and the only ones who end up winning are the lawyers. Plus he also laid down a £10k ($12.4k) deposit and had in writing that he WOULD be given the first car they got. Depending on where you read as to how concrete his agreement was:

http://www.ferdinandmagazine.com/uk-...s-court-battle

That differs a bit from confirmation of being #1 on a waiting list. Subtleties can go a long way in allowing them a get out clause if that was the case, which i very well believe it to be. Seems a very pyrrhic victory in this instance and i would see it as more of a put off to pursue legal action than anything else.

But I'm happy to agree to disagree. I just think this thread should represent both sides of the coin.

[M2 CSL]

Do you think the CS will be ballot selection or just wait list assuming a more hardcore CSL/GTS variant will be coming closer to 2 series production end ?

If wait list, I'm curious if dealers will include it in the M2 wait list or have a separate one.

[Nine Lives]

Originally Posted by M2 CSL

Do you think the CS will be ballot selection or just wait list assuming a more hardcore CSL/GTS variant will be coming closer to 2 series production end ?

If wait list, I'm curious if dealers will include it in the M2 wait list or have a separate one.

Depends where you live in the world and what your dealer policy is...
I don't think for one moment that the M2 will be as exclusive as the M4 GTS as BMW need to sell 'em.I'm of the opinion it will be business as usual with wait lists,deposits and queues just like it is/was with the vanilla M2.
The M2 CSL may well be another story though...

[I Love BMW's]

I have the #1 spot at my dealer with a refundable deposit. Same thing I did to get my 1M - I told the dealer I want to be on the list for it and he said it doesn't exist. I said put me on the list - I'll take my chances.

[cya]

Does anyone know any dealers in Ontario that is taking deposit or waitlist?

[Grayson1098]

I'm on my dealers list for the 2022 BMW M8 Treppenwitz edition!

[Hasan Shaikh]

I checked with the dealer here and they have no information on the M2 CS and will not take any deposit until they have some sort of confirmation from BMW Germany.

[OSee]

Originally Posted by Hasan Shaikh

I checked with the dealer here and they have no information on the M2 CS and will not take any deposit until they have some sort of confirmation from BMW Germany.

The dealer will take deposits on a M7 right now if you’re willing to give it to them.

I don’t think a lot of people understand that. A dealer taking your money is not evidence or confirmation of a cars existence.

The dealers take your money because it’s a hook to get your eventual business.

[Hasan Shaikh]

Maybe. But thats not how the dealer here works.

[OSee]

Originally Posted by Hasan Shaikh

Maybe. But thats not how the dealer here works.

In the US it works like that.

I’ve heard people put money down on the M2 GTS in the US “just in case”.

The dealer loves holding your money. With the hopes that they’ll eventually get your business by way of flipping you on to another car or delivering the pipe dream.

[cya]

So I called two dealers in my area and both of them are willing to take a deposit.

Dealership A has 5 people in line and Dealership B just started there list so I'll be one of the first in line. How would I know which dealer to leave my deposit with so I can secure the car?

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by cya

So I called two dealers in my area and both of them are willing to take a deposit.

Dealership A has 5 people in line and Dealership B just started there list so I'll be one of the first in line. How would I know which dealer to leave my deposit with so I can secure the car?

For any dealer to get 5 or more the production is going to have to be pretty high. I'd feel much more comfortable with the second option.

Production volume along with that store's M sales are going to influence how many allocations they will get.

[as7920]

Originally Posted by cya

So I called two dealers in my area and both of them are willing to take a deposit.

Dealership A has 5 people in line and Dealership B just started there list so I'll be one of the first in line. How would I know which dealer to leave my deposit with so I can secure the car?

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

For any dealer to get 5 or more the production is going to have to be pretty high. I'd feel much more comfortable with the second option.

Production volume along with that store's M sales are going to influence how many allocations they will get.

In particular, if they sold 1 or more M4 GTS. More GTS, I'd say better the chances.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by cya

So I called two dealers in my area and both of them are willing to take a deposit.

Dealership A has 5 people in line and Dealership B just started there list so I'll be one of the first in line. How would I know which dealer to leave my deposit with so I can secure the car?

Why not both? It's possible people drop out at dealership A. If you want the car I think you're going to have try to have as many options open to you as possible.

[cya]

Originally Posted by akkando

Why not both? It's possible people drop out at dealership A. If you want the car I think you're going to have try to have as many options open to you as possible.

I didn't think it's possible to drop out of a dealership once you leave a deposit...although it would be nice to have more options.

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by as7920

In particular, if they sold 1 or more M4 GTS. More GTS, I'd say better the chances.

Exactly, the store I work at for instance sold 108 M vehicles in 2016. Only one of them was an M4 GTS. That is all we were allocated.

In 2011 out of 740 US cars we received allocation for 3 1M's. (None of which are my car).

People keep tossing around this 1,000 units number which I just frankly don't believe if that's supposed to be world wide. I'd think they'd have to do more than that, right? 1,000 US units makes more sense.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM

People keep tossing around this 1,000 units number which I just frankly don't believe if that's supposed to be world wide. I'd think they'd have to do more than that, right? 1,000 US units makes more sense.

Has your dealership heard anything about this ?. I was under the assumption that this is the type of information that will be made available to all dealerships.