[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by SoCalRob

BMW has not released images and design drawings of the N55B30T0, so I am unable to provide a more in-depth analysis at this moment."

Link to article: http://youwheel.com/home/2015/10/14/...e-2016-bmw-m2/

Regards. -scr

They most certainly have. The block pics and engine description are in their published training manuals.

There's a big thread on it. BMW's images of the block show an open deck.

You keep posting articles which are based off of writers regurgitating early US press releases.

[RPM2-85]

I enjoyed talking it out gents. Psyched to get my M2, we will see what happens when someone opens one up......

I read every thread ect going back to understand this situation and nothing has proved absolute one way or the other, but my feeling is its closed for the M2.... I dont think BMW would let that statement hang out there without some level of truth.

[SoCalRob]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

You keep posting articles which are based off of writers regurgitating early US press releases.

Okay, then how about the official BMW United Kingdom Corporation Communications Media Information, dated April 11, 2016?

It states:

"This new, lightweight, thermodynamically optimised, all-aluminium unit is very rigid due to its closed-deck design. BMW’s advanced M TwinPower Turbo technology on the M2 comprises of a TwinScroll turbocharger, High Precision Injection, variable camshaft timing (Double-VANOS) and VALVETRONIC variable valve control. The M2’s turbocharger has been integrated into the exhaust manifold, reducing the warm-up phase after a cold start and thereby helping to cut internal friction and significantly reduce fuel consumption and CO2 emissions. Components including the pistons were sourced from the BMW M3/M4 engine, as are the crankshaft main bearing shells."

Here's is a link to the BMW UK Media Information (PDF document) referenced above: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/unite...09EN_GB/360316

And, for validation, here's the BMW UK web page that links to the above PDF: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/unite...the-new-bmw-m2

It appears that BMW USA was/is not the only one specifying a closed-deck.

Regards. -scr

[oldmanstyle]

The block is prominently advertised as being closed-deck on the current BMWUSA website (scroll down about 3/4): http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m/m2.html


That M2 page has been up for a while. Regardless of whether marketing doesn't communicate with engineering at times, this has been discussed ad nauseum on the forums and BMW reads these forums. They would have taken it down by now if it wasn't true.

[SoCalRob]

.

And this from a Malaysian automotive news outlet.

Note bottom paragraph:




---------


If anyone wants to access the complete online article: http://paultan.org/2016/03/02/bmw-m2...ysia-rm498800/

Regards. -scr

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by RPM2-85

Hit a nerve did we??? I can respond fast as an M2 would whip your tuned 135i......
Why would the block have to look like the S55 in order to be closed? Thats some stupid F*in logic dont you think? Do you know what it takes from a tooling perspective to close a deck off? Please share your experience if you do. All they have to do is fill the top of the deck which would close off the upper layer of cooling ducts. Seems pretty simple to me. They already bore it out to press in liners. They had their reasons how they did things and my firm belief is its closed in some fashion.
The truth is, theres no hard evidence it is in fact not closed, just not great evidence that it is a closed deck, do you get that buddy? Really its that simple. I take the BMW websites, and BMW techs word much more than these stupid rants about the look of the S55 block ect ect.
If it is open so be it!!! I wont be ashamed in the least as I relied on false information provided by the company itself. Companies dont take lying about their engineering lightly so ill put my bets in that camp.
Could the deck be open sure, I guess so. We wont know until a head comes off as you said. So quite whining about me, and get that special someone with a brand new M2 to let you crack it open just to prove to me, the guy in Jersey with 5 bimmerposts, whos rubbed you wrong today, that you in fact were right all along!!! Please video tape it for us all while your at it.
Was that mouthy enough for you?? Sleep well, in all seriousness.....
PS, you seem tweeked about my incoming M2 and my profile. At the risk of ruining your whole week, I wont list the cars I currently own for you...... We can leave it there and you DO NOT need to respond, dont worry.

Look friendo, over here it's common practice that forum fellows treat each other with respect. Agreeing to disagree in a civilized fashion. You stumbled in here a few days ago, firing a couple of hot rounds. Don't try that in your local bar. Work on your communication skills if you want your message to get across. Instead of the N55 engine, it's rather your mouth that needs a 'closed deck' to be more 'crack proof'.

And prepare yourself for some disappointment: once your future M2 arrives, it will *not* feature the powerdome, one-piece front seats and two-stalk side mirrors shown in a US marketing document released last Autumn.

[Robin_NL]

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...m/engines.html

I cannot seem to find anything about 'closed deck' on this page...

Great engine but Marketing vs Engineering? Marketing wins. As ever.

Cheers
Robin

[///M-pressed]

Closed deck, open deck who cares. I feel like people have nothing to better to do than argue on the internet, when they should be out enjoying the amazing machine that is the M2.

But then again, we live in the first world and we all argue over petty shit because we can right..

Happy weekend!!

[SoCalRob]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...m/engines.html

I cannot seem to find anything about 'closed deck' on this page...

Great engine but Marketing vs Engineering? Marketing wins. As ever.

Cheers
Robin

Yeah, I noticed the same thing.

However, I couldn't find mention of 'closed deck' (as it applies to engines, not convertibles!) anywhere on that entire website, including the M3- and M4-related pages.

So, as usual, based on that website, we can't draw any clear conclusions on the whole M2/closed-deck issue.

The mystery continues! -scr

[Nine Lives]

The easiest non intrusive way to tell is to get hold of a head gasket for the M2 and compare vs m*35i.

May be futile though as we already know they have the same part # across the board...

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

The easiest non intrusive way to tell is to get hold of a head gasket for the M2 and compare vs m*35i.

May be futile though as we already know they have the same part # across the board...

I think that solves the issue! The N5530T0 calls for the same head gasket as the N5530O0!

If the block surface were different, closed, semi closed, etc. wouldn't the head gasket also be different?

I guess if a water passage is blocked off at the block an opening on the gasket might not matter but BMW couldn't be that cheap to not redesign a $100 head gasket and instead reuse one off the shelf!

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by reppucci

I think that solves the issue!

Issue won't be solved through debate here. Will only be solved after someone removes the cover. The latest, official, internal engineering training document says closed deck. Odds are it's closed.

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by SoCalRob

Yeah, I noticed the same thing.

However, I couldn't find mention of 'closed deck' (as it applies to engines, not convertibles!) anywhere on that entire website, including the M3- and M4-related pages.

So, as usual, based on that website, we can't draw any clear conclusions on the whole M2/closed-deck issue.

The mystery continues! -scr

That is because BMW has changed the websites! the two vehicles with N5530T0 engines! For the M2 and X4M40i all current up to date websites have NO mention off closed deck in either vehicle.

As Artemis has mentioned and clearly listed, multiple prior BMW communication, press releases, and websites touted the closed deck design. Some of these websites still hang around.

Perhaps that was the original intention. Maybe the "closed deck" modified blocks had a problem? Production expense? supply? heat transfer irregularities? who knows? Perhaps in the end they stuck with a known and tested design. Quite probable marketing never knew, or was told, of a change in plan? Not atypical in large corporations.

Regardless, BMW certainly is, or should be, aware of this entire "confusion" surrounding the "closed deck" of the N5530T0. They should clearly state Yes or No!

It is otherwise a bit of a stain for BMW for having created this confusion and not clearing the air.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by reppucci

It is otherwise a bit of a stain for BMW for having created this confusion and not clearing the air.

The only possible cause for confusion by BMW would be that some regional marketing materials lack mention of a "closed deck". That's it.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Issue won't be solved through debate here. Will only be solved after someone removes the cover. The latest, official, internal engineering training document says closed deck. Odds are it's closed.

The cover? You mean the head?

[reppucci]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

The only possible cause for confusion by BMW would be that some regional marketing materials lack mention of a "closed deck". That's it.

Not sure I agree but I can respect that. Time will tell.

As an aside I called my BMW dealer parts department and asked for a Head gasket part number for my M2. Gave them my VIN. Build date 5/30/16.

Head gasket part number provided 111275992212. Same as N5530O0 gasket

Crank and Pistons are unique to M2 N5530T0 engine
Connecting Rods are shared with N5530O0
Flywheel shared with S55 engine

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by reppucci

That is because BMW has changed the websites! the two vehicles with N5530T0 engines! For the M2 and X4M40i all current up to date websites have NO mention off closed deck in either vehicle.

Last Spring BMS took a closer look to the M2 engine and reported a.o. "This is simply based on my initial few hours with the car. But from a performance perspective, it appears to be basically an N55 with a tune from the factory. It's not in the same universe as the S55 M3/M4 motor and even appears to be a step down from the B58 found in the new 340i." BMS concluded "Bottom Line: It's a cool little platform. But basically appears to be a more aggressively tuned M235." (http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38826).

BMS got the following question: "There's been skepticism about the turbo and closed deck vs. open deck for this car. The turbo part number is different than the M235i part number but from your initial testing it doesn't appear that this could indeed be an updated turbo. Thoughts on this and can you tell if it's a closed deck or open deck design?". BMS answered: "Based on the boost to power levels, if it's a larger than normal N55 turbo, it's not much larger. No idea on the deck."

The answer will be known once someone opens the M2 engine.

Anyways, should the M2 N55B30T0 engine turn out to be 'open deck' (which we still don't know; IMHO 'open deck' is more likely than 'closed deck'): nobody's perfect, mistakes can happen during the editing of (marketing) materials. For example - as already reported earlier a couple of times - there's the 8.5K rpm instrument panel glitch on page 64 of the M2 Technical Training: different layout (8.5K rpm instead of 7.5K rpm, less fuel gauge divisions, different "1/2" fuel gauge indication, "t/min x 1000" at a different location, no clock).

"6.2. M instrument cluster
The M instrument cluster is based on the high version of the instrument cluster from the F2x.
The respective scales of the instrument cluster are market- and vehicle-specific.
The following M-specific changes exist in comparison to the F2x:
• M-typical red needles, fuel gauge with white needle, dial illumination in white (also during the day without driving light), M model inscription.
• Welcome text “M2”.
• Orange night-time illumination (like F22).
• Engine temperature display integrated in on-board computer BC.
• Speed and engine speed display correspond to the drive concept (300 km/h in 30 km scale divisions, 8,000 rpm).
The display of the engine temperature is a calculated value generated from the coolant temperature and engine oil temperature."

Compare with the base M2 instrument panel IRL:

[bradleyland]

I have no horse in this race (don't own an M2, not buying one until more details on the CS arrive), but it strikes me as a glaring oversight that BMWNA would not only incorrectly state that the N55 has a closed deck, but would use it as a highlighted feature on their M2 model overview page. It's not like that's some obscure part of their website.

To get there:

- Click the Vehicles menu
- Click M Models
- Scroll down to M2 and click Learn More

That's three clicks, and it's right on the overview page. Not like you have to drill down to some obscure PDF or something. I get it that mistakes get made, but they call this out as one of three major engine features. If they got that wrong, they really screwed the pooch. There has to be some culpability here when it comes to false advertisement (assuming it's not a closed deck engine).

View post on imgur.com

[RPM2-85]

This was a long time ago. Look what's being marketed right now on the websites.

BMW didn't and wouldn't let a large oversite like that happen. The engine is closed deck. It will be confirmed when someone takes one apart.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by RPM2-85

This was a long time ago. Look what's being marketed right now on the websites.

BMW didn't and wouldn't let a large oversite like that happen. The engine is closed deck. It will be confirmed when someone takes one apart.

I'm going to laugh so fuckin' hard when we find out the M2's original engine was nothing more than a open-deck N55. I say original, because eventually I believe BMW will use the S55 or the B58, both of which are a proper closed-deck block.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

I have no horse in this race (don't own an M2, not buying one until more details on the CS arrive), but it strikes me as a glaring oversight that BMWNA would not only incorrectly state that the N55 has a closed deck, but would use it as a highlighted feature on their M2 model overview page. It's not like that's some obscure part of their website.
To get there:
- Click the Vehicles menu
- Click M Models
- Scroll down to M2 and click Learn More
That's three clicks, and it's right on the overview page. Not like you have to drill down to some obscure PDF or something. I get it that mistakes get made, but they call this out as one of three major engine features. If they got that wrong, they really screwed the pooch. There has to be some culpability here when it comes to false advertisement (assuming it's not a closed deck engine).

Point taken and respected. Absolutely not challenging the indisputable fact that, alike the BMWNA website, the US M2 press release and Canada M2 press release (October 14, 2015) unequivocally mention "closed deck" for the M2 engine:

"The all-new BMW M2’s newly developed 3.0 liter 6-cylinder engine represents a symbiosis of exceptional output and outstanding efficiency. The lightweight, thermodynamically optimized, all-aluminum unit is extremely rigid due to its closed-deck design – which means that the cylinder water jacket is closed at the top. This enables higher cylinder pressures for improved power output and torque."

The fact that it's mentioned is known. And it's also a fact that the M2 N55B30T0 engine is definitely a retooled N55 engine. No doubt about that either.

However, ask yourself, if the "closed deck" feature is considered to be a major highlight of the M2 engine, then ain't it peculiar that there is no single reference whatsoever to the "closed deck" feature for the M2 on the official BMW Germany websites (official German BMW website, BMW PressClub Global M2 press releases worldwide except for US/Canada, BMW M2 press kits, BMW M2 technical training) ? Also, AFAIK no word about the "closed deck" feature in M2 interviews with BMW M (I don't refer to reviews by journalists who copy/pasted parts of the US/Canada press releases). IMHO if the M2 N55B30T0 engine is "open deck", then there's no specific reason for BMW to mention it, as it's regular N55 business as usual. Rather puzzling.

One of the major assets of this forum is the freedom not to take everything for granted, if not clearly unreasonable by doing so. If any forum fellow knows a reference from BMW Germany mentioning that the M2 engine has a "closed deck" layout, let us all know. If you know someone who opened the M2 engine, even better. And if it turns out to be effectively "closed deck", I will gladly accept the finding with all due respect and fair play ...moreover because that implies that my car's engine is physically even stronger than I assumed so far.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by RPM2-85

This was a long time ago. Look what's being marketed right now on the websites.

BMW didn't and wouldn't let a large oversite like that happen. The engine is closed deck. It will be confirmed when someone takes one apart.

Yep. But I spoke with someone at BMW two days ago who had the latest internal training doc from engineering which specifies a closed deck for the M2 engine. As an extra step for me, they verified it was from engineering and not from marketing. She said this material.could not be released to the public. Maybe they used the same N55 mold but hammered in some inserts. But my money would be on closed deck.