[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by synergist

I agree, this car should not be priced >$70K. Anything greater and the competition becomes more appealing. GT4 was $85K with similar HP numbers (granted less torque) but weighs 500 lbs less than the M2. There is no way BMW is cutting significant weight for the CS and porsche has always been more $ for similar performance. Also, on paper the CS will not look like a huge upgrade from the base M2. The laymen could not justify spending $30K for say 20 hp/ 20 ft-lbs more and a nicer interior.

Of course, if it is limited production, relative to a base M2 that is already hard to get, BMW AG knows it can ask US$80K and still have more demand than supply. What is their motivation for underpricing something they can get that much for?

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Right on time ...

@Gatte

Have you noticed how info leaks out on the M2 and the M4. ?

A little M4 here.. then a little M2 there ... then some M4.. LCI then back to M2 LCI.. then M4 CS... sighting .. M2 CS sighting .. M4 CS pricing is imminent .. then M2 CS pricing will come after .. then the M4 CS goes on sale... etc... but after the M2 CS goes on sale ... is there nothing more .... until the next gen for both ?

I want to get the last traditional gas powered M car before the electric motors become mainstream or before they start using 4 cylinder engines for which the M2 would be the prime candidate. I am not saying it'll be a bad car. All I am saying is I don't want to take that chance.

If they follow the E46 (close to M2 dimensions), the next gen M2 will most definitely get bigger. There's a lot of demand for a gran coupe as well which would be difficult to accommodate with the current dimensions without making it look fat and stubby.

Now, I am not sure if I want to take a chance and let the CS go, hoping that there is something else that BMW will make before the next gen. I am not a huge fan of the GTS and even if they did make the CSL, it probably won't make it to the US so there's no point waiting for me. If the CSL is coming to the US and if I really wanted it and could afford it, I would probably be able to trade my CS for the same money I bought it for or maybe even more and get the CSL.

There was one picture that Artemis posted with 2 cars in a row and the car in the front had the M2 silhouette but looked like it had a CF roof, way more camo and those M-Mirrors. If the CS does not get all of that, the chances are, there is something else coming. Gotta wait and see.

All said, I will most probably be making a trip to Texas in 2018 though.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Gatte

There was one picture that Artemis posted with 2 cars in a row and the car in the front had the M2 silhouette but looked like it had a CF roof, way more camo and those M-Mirrors. If the CS does not get all of that, the chances are, there is something else coming. Gotta wait and see.

That's a reference to post #258 of this thread (but, as indicated, the camouflaged ///M car in the front is likely no M2): http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...3#post21257773

[Arcanum-UK]

Looks like there is a rear door handle so definitely not an M2... unless... M2GC!

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by Artemis

That's a reference to post #258 of this thread (but, as indicated, the camouflaged ///M car in the front is likely no M2): http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...3#post21257773

Attachment 1571866

Attachment 1571867

I think it is an M2. I initially thought it had two door handles but look closely. The first door handle is way too low for it to be an actual door handle (Try following the window line and try measuring the distance between the base of the window to the theoretical door handle). Now compare that with an M3 and you will see that it cannot be the door handle. It looks more like the side gill that we see on the M2.

Am I seeing things. Can someone back me up here.

[Arcanum-UK]

On the car behind - which is an M2 - you can see the door handle and the side grill and the gap between the two is a lot larger than the car in front.

[GimmeanM]

Originally Posted by Gatte

I think it is an M2. I initially thought it had two door handles but look closely. The first door handle is way too low for it to be an actual door handle (Try following the window line and try measuring the distance between the base of the window to the theoretical door handle). Now compare that with an M3 and you will see that it cannot be the door handle. It looks more like the side gill that we see on the M2.

Am I seeing things. Can someone back me up here.

Looks too high to be the M2 badge/gill. Looks to me like M3 door handles. Seems that the front door handle is lower in profile than the rear. However this car doesn't seem to have the M3 vent?

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by Arcanum-UK

On the car behind - which is an M2 - you can see the door handle and the side grill and the gap between the two is a lot larger than the car in front.

You might be right. I am not able to match them but here's how the M2 and M3s look:

[Gatte]

So, is that an M3 CS ??.
We've gotta put this on the M3/M4 forum so they can do the analysis for us.

[6734202]

Car in front definitely has different mirrors. Don't really look like M ones though. And I think it has 4 doors.

[SCOTT26]

It's an M5. Won't be long till that one either.

[6734202]

Check the zoom

[filet.M2c]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Of course, if it is limited production, relative to a base M2 that is already hard to get, BMW AG knows it can ask US$80K and still have more demand than supply. What is their motivation for underpricing something they can get that much for?

How limited is really needed to assess the appropriate pricing but pricing >$80K opens the door to a lot more competition. This is not the same price bracket as the base M2, where around $50K, the M2 definitely appears to be a front runner in the performance coupe segment. At $80K you get in the range of a lightly used 911, cayman S-GT4, TTRS, Z06, or GT350R, and way more. Or BMW can get another embarrassing call out by having the V8 1LE priced far bellow the CS, while simultaneously outperforming it. Again, if it is extremely limited they can charge whatever they want, but I would rather it be only slightly limited (restrained by production capacity) rather than synthetically over valued due to a predetermined production limit.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by synergist

How limited is really needed to assess the appropriate pricing but pricing >$80K opens the door to a lot more competition. This is not the same price bracket as the base M2, where around $50K, the M2 definitely appears to be a front runner in the performance coupe segment. At $80K you get in the range of a lightly used 911, cayman S-GT4, TTRS, Z06, or GT350R, and way more. Or BMW can get another embarrassing call out by having the V8 1LE priced far bellow the CS, while simultaneously outperforming it. Again, if it is extremely limited they can charge whatever they want, but I would rather it be only slightly limited (restrained by production capacity) rather than synthetically over valued due to a predetermined production limit.

Competitors are only relevant if you are fighting for market share. If they have greater demand than what they are selling, who cares how many GT4s, TTRS' or Z06's are sold relative to the M2 CS?

Looked at another way, base $52K, add $8-10K for S55, $8K if they go with CCB, $4K if they want to posh up the interior, who knows what if they want to decrease weight a bit - lets say $6K. Add all that up you get $80K. They could go for less of the above, making it less special. But they could also price the increases at a premium since they know demand outstrips supply. Could be as low as $70K, but could easily be up to $80K range.

I get that there are a lot of people hoping it will be really special and yet still affordable. But that seems an unlikely combination.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

It's an M5. Won't be long till that one either.

Was about to post this, but Scott26 beat me to it

[Tag]

Car in front also has a Double-Bubble CF Roof, dead giveaway it's not an M2.

[csbear]

Originally Posted by Tag

Car in front also has a Double-Bubble CF Roof, dead giveaway it's not an M2.

Good eye there! It does look like that...

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

Competitors are only relevant if you are fighting for market share. If they have greater demand than what they are selling, who cares how many GT4s, TTRS' or Z06's are sold relative to the M2 CS?

Looked at another way, base $52K, add $8-10K for S55, $8K if they go with CCB, $4K if they want to posh up the interior, who knows what if they want to decrease weight a bit - lets say $6K. Add all that up you get $80K. They could go for less of the above, making it less special. But they could also price the increases at a premium since they know demand outstrips supply. Could be as low as $70K, but could easily be up to $80K range.

I get that there are a lot of people hoping it will be really special and yet still affordable. But that seems an unlikely combination.

The M3/M4 has the CF roof, nicer interiors, S55 engine with 425 HP among other things and still costs 64K. Remove the fancy interiors, some of the sound deadening, add a smaller turbo on the engine (maybe), remove the I-Drive, add cheaper manual seats and price the car at maybe 60K for all the deletes.

Just another way to look at things. Now substitute parts to make them lighter wherever applicable for maybe 5K more and price the car at 65K.

Right ?? You should not market the car as below M3/M4 performance level and charge more than M3/M4.

Another thing to be considered here is that the M4 GTS got beat by a lot of cars that were a fraction of it's price. The special versions that BMW used to charge more for, like the E46 M3 CSL used to punch above their weights.

The Cayman GT4 which costed 85K is faster around a track than a carrera S from which it borrows it's engine whilst being 20K cheaper. The M2 CS would be similar to this I think. It probably won't be 20K cheaper than an M4 but would be very close to that price.

If BMW prices the CS over 75K, I will most definitely ditch and get the newer GT4 when it comes out for a little more.

[csbear]

Originally Posted by Gatte

The M3/M4 has the CF roof, nicer interiors, S55 engine with 425 HP among other things and still costs 64K. Remove the fancy interiors, some of the sound deadening, add a smaller turbo on the engine (maybe), remove the I-Drive, add cheaper manual seats and price the car at maybe 60K for all the deletes.

Just another way to look at things. Now substitute parts to make them lighter wherever applicable for maybe 5K more and price the car at 65K.

Right ??

You should not market the car as below M3/M4 performance level and charge more than M3/M4.

Agree...

A couple of things:
- A de-tuned S55. HP numbers are the most important performance numbers to marketing/sales. The M2 CS will have less hp than an M3/M4 for a reason.

-CCB will not be standard. Too many reasons for that...

-Interior will not be of M3/M4 quality. That's a big differentiating factor between a 2 series, a 3/4 series, 5 series, etc. Same applies to M2, M3/4, M5, etc.. Every car company abides by these rules; however, I welcome a full leather option for the CS!

-Reduced weight: We all wait with bated breath on that one.

I will be pretty surprised if this gets close to $80K. I am thinking $65 to $70K about. BMW has to think, "A loaded M3/M4 is about $82K to $85K mark. We have to protect that number. It is our most iconic car..."

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

It's an M5. Won't be long till that one either.

Hey Scott, why don't you tell us if there's an M2 CSL/GTS in the offing and if it'll make it to the US. Promise to never ask you anything again.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Tag

Car in front also has a Double-Bubble CF Roof, dead giveaway it's not an M2.

See post #258:

Originally Posted by Artemis

What's also interesting about the picture below, is the first car: much more camo tape, the obvious shape of a double-bubble CF roof and partially camo taped side mirrors that seem like a design mix of E9X M3 / E82 1M and F8X M3/M4 side mirrors. Hard to see, but likely an M3 test mule (as it looks like we can discern two door handles on the right hand side). Strange enough no pictures taken from other angles - did BMW release these pictures (controlled leak) ?

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Artemis

See post #258:

Opps, missed that.