[Blurbo311]

Blue 991 + Black GTI as a daily = winner!

I am a former 997.2 owner and there are several guys on rennlist who daily a GTI, great choice!

I will echo what many have already said, my perspective being a former 997.2 owner who is shopping the M2 right now...

BMW M2 new vs 911 new - this is a no brainer unless you have a lot of money, the 911 will depreciate the cost of the M2 in 3 years, get the M2.

$60k all in on a new M2 vs spending $60k on a 911 (997.2 or 991.1) - this would be a tough choice as the M2 would be under full warranty while the 911 might be CPO but likely out of warranty or close to being out. Depends on risk tolerance which car you just have to have. I went with a used 997.2 out of warranty for around $50k, I had it for a year and I'm glad I did, but it was a seven year old car out of warranty so I decided to sell. This time around I'll probably do the M2.

The 911 is a lot better daily than most people give it credit for, I loved the car and part of me still knows I'll be back in a 911 some day. The only other car I owned and will probably own again is an S2000. But as someone said above, I am a bit of a car whore too, and I feel like I need to own an M2.

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by qtong

The black one fell through. I didn't feel comfortable with how the dealership was handling the deal. Bought this blue one instead, picking it up on Wednesday. I'm going to also pick up this GTI today to use as a DD! Fantastic week!

Love the blue! Porsche makes the absolute best shades of blue-- from their cobalt blue to their new miami blue.

But honestly, if that's a C4S, I don't think you need a GTI as well. The 991 should be your DD, especially if it's equipped with PDK

[texasyeehaw]

For pure driving experience, the 911 wins and I say this as an M2 owner. who absolutely loves his M2. If you've never owned a mid or rear engine mounted car, I'd say do it for that experience alone.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by Blurbo311

Blue 991 + Black GTI as a daily = winner!

I am a former 997.2 owner and there are several guys on rennlist who daily a GTI, great choice!

I will echo what many have already said, my perspective being a former 997.2 owner who is shopping the M2 right now...

BMW M2 new vs 911 new - this is a no brainer unless you have a lot of money, the 911 will depreciate the cost of the M2 in 3 years, get the M2.

$60k all in on a new M2 vs spending $60k on a 911 (997.2 or 991.1) - this would be a tough choice as the M2 would be under full warranty while the 911 might be CPO but likely out of warranty or close to being out. Depends on risk tolerance which car you just have to have. I went with a used 997.2 out of warranty for around $50k, I had it for a year and I'm glad I did, but it was a seven year old car out of warranty so I decided to sell. This time around I'll probably do the M2.

The 911 is a lot better daily than most people give it credit for, I loved the car and part of me still knows I'll be back in a 911 some day. The only other car I owned and will probably own again is an S2000. But as someone said above, I am a bit of a car whore too, and I feel like I need to own an M2.

I was in a similar position since I was a week 33, it was a tough decision to let go of my allocation for the 911. But the way I see it, most of the hard depreciation is absorbed by owner #1 since a lot/many of 911 buyers prefer to customize their car over buying one on the lot which makes CPOs fantastic. The depreciation will be about $0.75 to $1 per mile with a modifier for age. The M2 will depreciate less since it is a cheaper car to start with but I don't see its value staying as high as it has been. When the M3/4, M5, Macan, etc etc first came out, there was also a long wait list and they were also selling for over MSRP. I also started with that $60k-$70k as a budget and as you've seen, it ballooned by quite a bit since I didn't want something out of warranty. My CPO warranty is actually better than the warranty on a new one. 2021/100k miles.

Originally Posted by bruin1md

Love the blue! Porsche makes the absolute best shades of blue-- from their cobalt blue to their new miami blue.

But honestly, if that's a C4S, I don't think you need a GTI as well. The 991 should be your DD, especially if it's equipped with PDK

I was a bit nervous about getting the bright color. I think the guards or carmine red is the best color, followed by racing yellow, then the blue but I definitely do not have a nuts to wear a bright red or yellow Porsche.

As for a daily driver, there are a couple of factors that drive (pun intended) away from using it as a DD. The first is perception, I don't want my employees getting the wrong impression. Secondly, I don't want familiarity to kill the fun of having the car. Having a GTI as a fun DD and the C4S as a weekend back roads car is the best combo imo. Here is a thread on rennlist on just that:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1002...th-my-car.html

Originally Posted by texasyeehaw

For pure driving experience, the 911 wins and I say this as an M2 owner. who absolutely loves his M2. If you've never owned a mid or rear engine mounted car, I'd say do it for that experience alone.

I agree, there is a visceral feeling from driving a 911 that an M2/3/4 etc can't replicate. Feeling the engine rumble and wail from right behind is an experience very unique to the 911. I think if we pulled off the badging, duplicated the interiors, and did a blind study, it would be a no contest for the 911. But cost is ultimately the equalizer. For me, it's totally worth it.

[termigni]

M2. I'm not a fan of how Pcars look anything under the GTS trim. if 911 GTS vs M2, of course 911GTS.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by termigni

M2. I'm not a fan of how Pcars look anything under the GTS trim. if 911 GTS vs M2, of course 911GTS.

If we are only talking about appearances the GTS is wide body like the C4S and same meaty tires.. It has some black bits to it and has the sport design bumper (which is an option on any carrera). From a performance perspective, the GTS wins but I'm not going to tap into the full potential of the 4S to begin with. The GtS also has the extra exclusivity that makes it look a little better . Otherwise from a visual standpoint, it isn't much different from the 4s.

[termigni]

Originally Posted by qtong

If we are only talking about appearances the GTS is wide body like the C4S and same meaty tires.. It has some black bits to it and has the sport design bumper (which is an option on any carrera). From a performance perspective, the GTS wins but I'm not going to tap into the full potential of the 4S to begin with. The GtS also has the extra exclusivity that makes it look a little better . Otherwise from a visual standpoint, it isn't much different from the 4s.

Not just the widebody (yes they do make a big difference) but I'm talking about the front/rear bumper. Base bumpers look way too soft. 991.2 bumper shows some improvements to make it more aggressive however. Yes you can install SD bumper but knowing how much Porsche charges for those parts, you might as well get the GTS to begin with.

Performance wise, I don't doubt a base 911.2 will kick M2's ass.

I guess I'm just not a Porsche guy. For example, I'd much prefer to own a 570S over the P Turbo.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by termigni

Not just the widebody (yes they do make a big difference) but I'm talking about the front/rear bumper. Base bumpers look way too soft. 991.2 bumper shows some improvements to make it more aggressive however. Yes you can install SD bumper but knowing how much Porsche charges for those parts, you might as well get the GTS to begin with.

Performance wise, I don't doubt a base 911.2 will kick M2's ass.

I guess I'm just not a Porsche guy. For example, I'd much prefer to own a 570S over the P Turbo.

I'll agree that the front looks a little soft, but in my opinion, 911s generally aren't designed to look angry, they always look like they are smiling. I'll also admit that if a GTS were available in my price point, I would've gone with the GTS but price and availability on the CPO market is pretty rough and I refuse to buy any p-car new.

People don't buy p cars just for performance. If you only want performance, don't buy a 911 or an M2, buy a ZL1. It's just personal taste. For me, I would take the turbo s over the 570S. The shop bills will be lower, better reliability, and you can actually drive it around town. McLarens are known to have terribly reliability, insanely expensive to repair, and not great to drive around town (aside from scraping over every pebble and needing a spinal realignment after every little pothole, it would wear me out to have people always taking pictures, always coming up to talk about it, basically draws too much attention).

It's just a matter of preference. I would take my GTI over the Camaro 2SS and 435i all day. Dare I say, I might like it better than the M3...? Just like how I would rather have my 1987 3/4 ton dodge pick up that I bought for $2k (I have more into it now and it still won't run but it was great when it did) over a new truck. For me, there was no better option for me than the one I bought, obviously. It's the right car for me at this point but who knows, maybe some time in the future I will prefer an old miata over the 911!

[tstafford]

I disagree with the comment ^^^ that people "don't but p cars just for performance". That's exactly what I did. I own an M2 and a GT3 RS. The RS lives in a garage at the track. (I don't even insure it for road use). The M2 gets me to and from track and serves as an alternative track car when I want to switch things up.

FWIW - I have a number of friends who own Porsches for no other purpose than performance - several with GT3s or RSs and another with a Cayman Clubsport. It's not as uncommon as you might think.

Note: Pic included only because I suspect w/o it people will start claiming I'm making s**t up.

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by qtong

If we are only talking about appearances the GTS is wide body like the C4S and same meaty tires.. It has some black bits to it and has the sport design bumper (which is an option on any carrera). From a performance perspective, the GTS wins but I'm not going to tap into the full potential of the 4S to begin with. The GtS also has the extra exclusivity that makes it look a little better . Otherwise from a visual standpoint, it isn't much different from the 4s.

From having owned a 997.2 GTS for a few years, there actually were some distinctions between a C4S and a GTS, despite the common wide body design being ubiquitous to both.

with the 991's I believe the distinctions are more subtle.
The 997.2 C4S was my favorite 911 design of any of the water cooled 911's.

Performance wise (to the other poster who mentioned the GTS), there is absolutely no comparison between the 997.2 GTS and a M2, having now driven the latter and owned the former. But unlike many others, I didn't enjoy the GTS as a DD-- way to rough for me, especially on our crappy roads.
The 991 is a totally different car by comparison, which is why I said it makes for an excellent DD. I drove a 991.1 GT3, and believe it or not, it was far better on our terrible roads than my 997.2 GTS.
But I get why you don't want it to be your DD.

The 991's are just a totally different car than any 911 before it (for better and/or worse)

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by qtong

I'll agree that the front looks a little soft, but in my opinion, 911s generally aren't designed to look angry, they always look like they are smiling. I'll also admit that if a GTS were available in my price point, I would've gone with the GTS but price and availability on the CPO market is pretty rough and I refuse to buy any p-car new.

People don't buy p cars just for performance. If you only want performance, don't buy a 911 or an M2, buy a ZL1. It's just personal taste. For me, I would take the turbo s over the 570S. The shop bills will be lower, better reliability, and you can actually drive it around town. McLarens are known to have terribly reliability, insanely expensive to repair, and not great to drive around town (aside from scraping over every pebble and needing a spinal realignment after every little pothole, it would wear me out to have people always taking pictures, always coming up to talk about it, basically draws too much attention).

It's just a matter of preference. I would take my GTI over the Camaro 2SS and 435i all day. Dare I say, I might like it better than the M3...? Just like how I would rather have my 1987 3/4 ton dodge pick up that I bought for $2k (I have more into it now and it still won't run but it was great when it did) over a new truck. For me, there was no better option for me than the one I bought, obviously. It's the right car for me at this point but who knows, maybe some time in the future I will prefer an old miata over the 911!

If you wanted a GTS, why didn't you consider a 997.2 GTS ?
I sold mine last year with only 10,500 miles on it for around $77K.

The 997.2's are not only going to hold their value, but don't be surprised if models like the GTS actually go up in price in 5-10 years.

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by tstafford

I disagree with the comment ^^^ that people "don't but p cars just for performance". That's exactly what I did. I own an M2 and a GT3 RS. The RS lives in a garage at the track. (I don't even insure it for road use). The M2 gets me to and from track and serves as an alternative track car when I want to switch things up.

FWIW - I have a number of friends who own Porsches for no other purpose than performance - several with GT3s or RSs and another with a Cayman Clubsport. It's not as uncommon as you might think.

Note: Pic included only because I suspect w/o it people will start claiming I'm making s**t up.

Smart man.

I've been promised to be at the top of the wait list for the next GT4 at the dealership I bought by GTS from........we will see.
If they honor that, I cannot wait for that car to enter my garage in a few years, and like you, I will likely keep it for the track (with a few weekend drives mixed in ; )

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by tstafford

I disagree with the comment ^^^ that people "don't but p cars just for performance". That's exactly what I did. I own an M2 and a GT3 RS. The RS lives in a garage at the track. (I don't even insure it for road use). The M2 gets me to and from track and serves as an alternative track car when I want to switch things up.

FWIW - I have a number of friends who own Porsches for no other purpose than performance - several with GT3s or RSs and another with a Cayman Clubsport. It's not as uncommon as you might think.

Note: Pic included only because I suspect w/o it people will start claiming I'm making s**t up.

I failed to put the a qualifier in there. Let me rephrase, most people who buy p cars don't buy them strictly for performance. In my opinion, the GT3/R/RS are completely different realms (basically race cars, not even sports cars) but you are right, many people do buy p cars only for performance, but most don't.

No need for the pics for proof, beautiful car and fantastic color choice! Your M2/GT3 RS is a fantastic split. The GT3RS is a bit too much car for me but I'm glad individuals such as yourself have a use for them so that Porsche will keep making them for me to gawk at.

Originally Posted by bruin1md

If you wanted a GTS, why didn't you consider a 997.2 GTS ?
I sold mine last year with only 10,500 miles on it for around $77K.

The 997.2's are not only going to hold their value, but don't be surprised if models like the GTS actually go up in price in 5-10 years.

I wanted a NA 991. I like the new styling better but still wanted a NA engine. Since there aren't many 991.1 GTS on the market for my price point, I couldn't really go that route. The 997 GTS is a fantastic car but I guess I just wanted a more pedestrian car that I wouldn't ever have to second guess about putting on miles due to depreciation. If I have something with any potential investment value, I would be reluctant to drive it and wouldn't enjoy it as much. Regardless, I just wanted a 991.1 GTS or C4S.

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by qtong

I failed to put the a qualifier in there. Let me rephrase, most people who buy p cars don't buy them strictly for performance. In my opinion, the GT3/R/RS are completely different realms (basically race cars, not even sports cars) but you are right, many people do buy p cars only for performance, but most don't.

No need for the pics for proof, beautiful car and fantastic color choice! Your M2/GT3 RS is a fantastic split. The GT3RS is a bit too much car for me but I'm glad individuals such as yourself have a use for them so that Porsche will keep making them for me to gawk at.



I wanted a NA 991. I like the new styling better but still wanted a NA engine. Since there aren't many 991.1 GTS on the market for my price point, I couldn't really go that route. The 997 GTS is a fantastic car but I guess I just wanted a more pedestrian car that I wouldn't ever have to second guess about putting on miles due to depreciation. If I have something with any potential investment value, I would be reluctant to drive it and wouldn't enjoy it as much. Regardless, I just wanted a 991.1 GTS or C4S.

Understood. Will love to hear your driving impressions of your 991.
I predict that the values of the 991.1's will continue to fall quite a bit in the coming years, but we will see. The 991.1 turbo and turbo S's are falling like rocks, but that's a different car, I know, and it's happening in large part b/c the 991.2 turbo's (the real turbo's that is) are supposed to be absolutely incredible.
The 997.2's are a totally different story. Talk to most 911 enthusiasts and they will tell you that's the car they would hold onto for multiple reasons........ Especially with the push for an almost entirely turbo platform (with the exception of the 911R, GT3/RS, GT4/Spyder) coupled with electrical steering, the 997.2's will hold their value in the coming years.

Although it's apples and oranges, I want to hear how you compare your GTI to your camaro SS that you sold, especially since you posted earlier that you enjoy the GTI far more than the camaro. What made you sell the Camaro after such a short stint with it?
I love the NPP exhaust on my 2SS, and I'm a bit worried I'll miss it. Having said that, I think I'll have more fun while driving and utilizing mid range torque in the M2 when it arrives than I would have had I kept the 2SS, but we will see.

[tstafford]

Originally Posted by qtong

No need for the pics for proof, beautiful car and fantastic color choice! Your M2/GT3 RS is a fantastic split. The GT3RS is a bit too much car for me but I'm glad individuals such as yourself have a use for them so that Porsche will keep making them for me to gawk at.

Thanks man. I lucked out on the color. My local dealer called me when the guy who ordered/specced the car backed out when the car hit land (they had called him to arrange the inbound wire). While I was lucky to get a new RS, I wasn't lucky enough to get an allocation. But beggars can't be choosers.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by bruin1md

Understood. Will love to hear your driving impressions of your 991.
I predict that the values of the 991.1's will continue to fall quite a bit in the coming years, but we will see. The 991.1 turbo and turbo S's are falling like rocks, but that's a different car, I know, and it's happening in large part b/c the 991.2 turbo's (the real turbo's that is) are supposed to be absolutely incredible.
The 997.2's are a totally different story. Talk to most 911 enthusiasts and they will tell you that's the car they would hold onto for multiple reasons........ Especially with the push for an almost entirely turbo platform (with the exception of the 911R, GT3/RS, GT4/Spyder) coupled with electrical steering, the 997.2's will hold their value in the coming years.

Although it's apples and oranges, I want to hear how you compare your GTI to your camaro SS that you sold, especially since you posted earlier that you enjoy the GTI far more than the camaro. What made you sell the Camaro after such a short stint with it?
I love the MPP exhaust on my 2SS, and I'm a bit worried I'll miss it. Having said that, I think I'll have more fun while driving and utilizing mid range torque in the M2 when it arrives than I would have had I kept the 2SS, but we will see.

I agree with your assessment on the 997.2s.. Last of the NA engine with hydraulic steering. But, while resale value is a factor, it's isn't in the top 50% of my list of priorities. If resale were a big deal, I'd get the GT4 or GT3, etc etc. and drive it pretty infrequently.

Oh boy, GTI vs 2SS.

Build quality: I think the build quality of the GTI is better, its body panels line up better than the 2SS, the paint is better, the interior materials are better, the tough screen is better, etc etc. The 2SS looked great new but the leather on the seats wear down a lot, the plastic has a lot of texture that holds a lot of dirt, the carpets are low quality and impossible to get clean, and for whatever reason the windshield would always get dirty faster than any of my other cars.

Design: The GTI is a considerably smaller car all around but has far more storage space. I couldn't even fit my sunglasses anywhere in the 2SS. The trunk is so deep and opening is so small that god forbid anything roll to the back. I also like the way the GTI looks. This is purely subjective but once I am done looking at the mean front fascia of the 2SS, there is just a big blob of bulky sheet metal poorly painted and aligned. The GTI is more proportionate. The big blind spots of the Camaro are fine until it's not...

Performance: The 2SS is fast and it sounds great with the MPP. But it is too obnoxious on start up. I had it in the 6MT and I personally think the gearbox in the GTI is better. The GTI has shorter crisper throws compared the the longer rubbery. My only gripe with the gearbox on the GTI is the rev hang between 1st and 2nd gear. The GTI is plenty fast and feels fast. My last gripe with the GTI on performance is the turbo lag which lasts a tad over one second.

Fun: This is where the GTI kicks the camaro's butt. It is fast (enough), very nimble, and feels like a go kart with a high quality interior. The 2SS felt like a large box that was very fast, it lacked character. The GTI has tons of character. You can effortlessly take very sharp turns and it complies. Basically it is a go kart that you can push and never worry that it is going to misbehave and make you look like every mustang at a cars and coffee meet. The engine noise is fake of course but sounds nice enough for me to not care. From a spec sheet perspective, the 2SS should be the faster, better, more fun car. But behind the wheel, the GTI feels very fast and is just... fun.

My opinion is to go test drive one. Not for just the typical around the block test drive, but put 20 minutes into it. Go down narrow roads, make some sharp turns, get onto the freeway and nail the throttle, exit a parking lot. This little gem makes mundane activities fun. It is fun enough that I don't think having the C4S will make it any less fun. If it weren't for the turbo lag and the rev hang, I would nominate it for the undisputed best car I have ever owned.

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by qtong

I agree with your assessment on the 997.2s.. Last of the NA engine with hydraulic steering. But, while resale value is a factor, it's isn't in the top 50% of my list of priorities. If resale were a big deal, I'd get the GT4 or GT3, etc etc. and drive it pretty infrequently.

Oh boy, GTI vs 2SS.

Build quality: I think the build quality of the GTI is better, its body panels line up better than the 2SS, the paint is better, the interior materials are better, the tough screen is better, etc etc. The 2SS looked great new but the leather on the seats wear down a lot, the plastic has a lot of texture that holds a lot of dirt, the carpets are low quality and impossible to get clean, and for whatever reason the windshield would always get dirty faster than any of my other cars.

Design: The GTI is a considerably smaller car all around but has far more storage space. I couldn't even fit my sunglasses anywhere in the 2SS. The trunk is so deep and opening is so small that god forbid anything roll to the back. I also like the way the GTI looks. This is purely subjective but once I am done looking at the mean front fascia of the 2SS, there is just a big blob of bulky sheet metal poorly painted and aligned. The GTI is more proportionate. The big blind spots of the Camaro are fine until it's not...

Performance: The 2SS is fast and it sounds great with the MPP. But it is too obnoxious on start up. I had it in the 6MT and I personally think the gearbox in the GTI is better. The GTI has shorter crisper throws compared the the longer rubbery. My only gripe with the gearbox on the GTI is the rev hang between 1st and 2nd gear. The GTI is plenty fast and feels fast. My last gripe with the GTI on performance is the turbo lag which lasts a tad over one second.

Fun: This is where the GTI kicks the camaro's butt. It is fast (enough), very nimble, and feels like a go kart with a high quality interior. The 2SS felt like a large box that was very fast, it lacked character. The GTI has tons of character. You can effortlessly take very sharp turns and it complies. Basically it is a go kart that you can push and never worry that it is going to misbehave and make you look like every mustang at a cars and coffee meet. The engine noise is fake of course but sounds nice enough for me to not care. From a spec sheet perspective, the 2SS should be the faster, better, more fun car. But behind the wheel, the GTI feels very fast and is just... fun.

My opinion is to go test drive one. Not for just the typical around the block test drive, but put 20 minutes into it. Go down narrow roads, make some sharp turns, get onto the freeway and nail the throttle, exit a parking lot. This little gem makes mundane activities fun. It is fun enough that I don't think having the C4S will make it any less fun. If it weren't for the turbo lag and the rev hang, I would nominate it for the undisputed best car I have ever owned.

Great rundown and comparison-- thanks for sharing.

I couldn't agree with you more about the 2SS. I also have it in a 6MT and I hate the clutch on it. The M2 by comparison is so 'linear' and smooth. I don't mind a harder/firmer clutch, but the clutch on the 2SS has too much bite initially and then lets up abruptly. I hate that.
I also don't love it the way I was hoping I would, which is a huge reason I'll be selling it after only a year. Your assessment is spot on-- it's like a boat in many ways, which isn't what I was expecting after reading the rave reviews on Motor Trend and Car and Driver when it was compared to and beat out the M4.

I think to experience that aspect of the car -- in terms of its improved handling and chassis-- it needs to be tracked, which I haven't done, since I have a vert.
Those same handling improvements aren't as noticeable in day to day driving, as you correctly pointed out.

I'm not in the market for a daily driver (i have a SUV), but I completely agree with the notion that the closer you can get to driving a go cart, the more fun you will have.
Along those lines, I drove the new Miata RF, and absolutely loved it. It felt exactly like a go cart darting in and out of traffic. Amazing power:weight.

But that's also why I'm a bit surprised you're choosing a 991 over a CPO 981 cayman GTS or boxter GTS. Given the poor sales of the 718's, I think many people will hang onto the last of the flat 6 NA mid engine porsches--if they own one.
Are you getting yours in a 7MT or PDK?

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by bruin1md

Great rundown and comparison-- thanks for sharing.

I couldn't agree with you more about the 2SS. I also have it in a 6MT and I hate the clutch on it. The M2 by comparison is so 'linear' and smooth. I don't mind a harder/firmer clutch, but the clutch on the 2SS has too much bite initially and then lets up abruptly. I hate that.
I also don't love it the way I was hoping I would, which is a huge reason I'll be selling it after only a year. Your assessment is spot on-- it's like a boat in many ways, which isn't what I was expecting after reading the rave reviews on Motor Trend and Car and Driver when it was compared to and beat out the M4.

I think to experience that aspect of the car -- in terms of its improved handling and chassis-- it needs to be tracked, which I haven't done, since I have a vert.
Those same handling improvements aren't as noticeable in day to day driving, as you correctly pointed out.

I'm not in the market for a daily driver (i have a SUV), but I completely agree with the notion that the closer you can get to driving a go cart, the more fun you will have.
Along those lines, I drove the new Miata RF, and absolutely loved it. It felt exactly like a go cart darting in and out of traffic. Amazing power:weight.

But that's also why I'm a bit surprised you're choosing a 991 over a CPO 981 cayman GTS or boxter GTS. Given the poor sales of the 718's, I think many people will hang onto the last of the flat 6 NA mid engine porsches--if they own one.
Are you getting yours in a 7MT or PDK?

PDK. The manual was a must have for me to begin with but after driving the PDK, it truly knows what I want to do and executes it perfectly without me asking it to. BUT... that's also why my GTI has a manual gearbox because I still need a manual gearbox in my life and it suits the GTI very well. Plus now I can claim that I made a compromise with my wife by getting a manual so she could drive it too

One of aspects of the 991 purchase is the wife, it is more comfortable than the 997, updated interior, and all around more civilized. It also has a back seat which was a must have for the wife so that ruled out any Cayman or two seater. When she found out that the backseat is basically useless, TOO LATE!!! I already gave them the check and signed the paperwork. Oh and the decently sized frunk that I sold her on with C2S? Yep, the C4S is quite a bit smaller, TOO LATE!! Ultimately, I have been through 7/8/9/10 cars (depending on how you choose to add them up) in the last year and a half. 6 of them were brand new. So I really needed to hard sell the wife. I am on an even shorter leash now since my wife didn't know we were buying a GTI on the same day as the 991 until we were pulling into the parking lot.

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by qtong

PDK. The manual was a must have for me to begin with but after driving the PDK, it truly knows what I want to do and executes it perfectly without me asking it to. BUT... that's also why my GTI has a manual gearbox because I still need a manual gearbox in my life and it suits the GTI very well. Plus now I can claim that I made a compromise with my wife by getting a manual so she could drive it too

One of aspects of the 991 purchase is the wife, it is more comfortable than the 997, updated interior, and all around more civilized. It also has a back seat which was a must have for the wife so that ruled out any Cayman or two seater. When she found out that the backseat is basically useless, TOO LATE!!! I already gave them the check and signed the paperwork. Oh and the decently sized frunk that I sold her on with C2S? Yep, the C4S is quite a bit smaller, TOO LATE!! Ultimately, I have been through 7/8/9/10 cars (depending on how you choose to add them up) in the last year and a half. 6 of them were brand new. So I really needed to hard sell the wife. I am on an even shorter leash now since my wife didn't know we were buying a GTI on the same day as the 991 until we were pulling into the parking lot.

Got it. When factoring in the wife and said needs, your reasons make perfect sense for getting the 991. There is no question it will be the more civilized ride c/w with either a 981 cayman or a 997.2.

One of the things I really liked about the 997 was the difference in the wide body design in the C4/C4S/GTS c/w with C2 line up.
Can you appreciate that difference as well in your 991? When I looked at them myself, the difference between the standard width body and the wide body wasn't as obvious to me as it was on the 997.2.
Given all the purchases you've made in the last 18 months, it sounds like you will keep the 991 for at least a few years.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by bruin1md

Got it. When factoring in the wife and said needs, your reasons make perfect sense for getting the 991. There is no question it will be the more civilized ride c/w with either a 981 cayman or a 997.2.

One of the things I really liked about the 997 was the difference in the wide body design in the C4/C4S/GTS c/w with C2 line up.
Can you appreciate that difference as well in your 991? When I looked at them myself, the difference between the standard width body and the wide body wasn't as obvious to me as it was on the 997.2.
Given all the purchases you've made in the last 18 months, it sounds like you will keep the 991 for at least a few years.

It depends on the color, I saw a black 991.2 C2S at the dealership the other day and it looked very slender relative to the C4S and Targa 4 GTS in the show room. It is even more noticeable when they are next to one another. Colors matter a lot too. Unfortunately I think the sapphire blue hides the width more than other colors, especially fashion grey or racing yellow. I'm not sure if I would want to have a non wb 911 now that my eyes are adjusting to the two. I think the 997 shows width diffrences better since they aren't very squatty. The 991s are much wider so an untrained eye might not notice the difference between a c2 or c4 but I think they could tell with the 997. But my eyes are very picky and particular kind of like Matt Moreman, just not as extreme.

Yes you are correct, I will not be buying another car for awhile. I think the GTI/C4S combo will hold my attention better than my previous cars. Any plans to get back into a p car? Sounds like you have a GT car in the future.

[bruin1md]

Originally Posted by qtong

It depends on the color, I saw a black 991.2 C2S at the dealership the other day and it looked very slender relative to the C4S and Targa 4 GTS in the show room. It is even more noticeable when they are next to one another. Colors matter a lot too. Unfortunately I think the sapphire blue hides the width more than other colors, especially fashion grey or racing yellow. I'm not sure if I would want to have a non wb 911 now that my eyes are adjusting to the two. I think the 997 shows width diffrences better since they aren't very squatty. The 991s are much wider so an untrained eye might not notice the difference between a c2 or c4 but I think they could tell with the 997. But my eyes are very picky and particular kind of like Matt Moreman, just not as extreme.

Yes you are correct, I will not be buying another car for awhile. I think the GTI/C4S combo will hold my attention better than my previous cars. Any plans to get back into a p car? Sounds like you have a GT car in the future.

Spot on regarding the more subtle differences in the wide body design in the 991's relative to the 997's........... the 997.2 wide body is my absolute favorite design by Porsche of any model they've made to date.........with the exception the of the 918 Spyder, and possibly the first generation 987 Boxter Spyder (circa 2010-2012).

To answer your question, yes. I've had a 987 Cayman S, followed by the aforementioned 997.2 GTS, and hopefully one day soon, another mid engine P car.
My plan is to get the M2 (week 38 production) and enjoy the hell out of it for at least 2 years if not longer, and then get into the Cayman GT4 or Spyder, depending on if I move back to Southern California.

I came to find out recently that it's not easy to be up at the top of the list for 2nd gen GT4 unless you've purchased a previous GT car from a particular dealership. I think it also really depends on where you live and the demand for them locally.

Consequently, I spoke to the general manager of the dealership where I purchased my GTS and he assured me he would place me at the top of the list for the GT4, as soon as he gets details on the car. He said it likely wouldn't be until the end of this year or early next year that they would even know about production and a tentative release date. So I've got some waiting to do, which I'm perfectly fine with.
I gave serious thought to the next generation GT3, but after reading a lot about the car, I think the GT4 would actually be the more fun car for weekend drives and daily fun.
It was a pure track toy, I would have more seriously considered the upcoming GT3.

Depending on how I feel about the M2, I think in 3 years, my plan is to daily either the M3 or M5 and have the GT4 or Spyder as my weekend/auto cross car.

[doug_999]

First off, it was a Porsche Experience car (and the dealer was bragging how great that was!). Had 1,800 miles and was loaded up to $140K. Had the sport exhaust (which I simply hate - at least from the looks of it and no, the sound was not that great either).

Random thoughts
Short of being in sport plus (or whatever it is called), the M2 felt more responsive and just as quick - if not quicker. Felt is key word mind you

Car had the sport package so had the rear wheel steering - but/and, I never noticed it (did not realize it had that until I looked at the sticker a day later).

Car was raw - I liked that and... well, it kind of reminded me of my wife's Mini. The M2 felt more "refined".

Trust me, I liked the car - and it made me want to drive a 2S or GTS, but it was not something I "had" to have.

PS - lease was $10K down, $1,300 a month for 5K per year. Ouch.

PS - I honestly think a standard 911 might be a good replacement for my wife's Clubman.