[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Driver37

I don't think you will be seeing any discounts for at least a year. The wait list is so long that the people who are JUST getting on the list for an M2 now will probably be seeing their car late 2017. No need to discount if the demand is still there and supply is still limited?

Demand of an M3 is still limited and I can get one at $500 over. Its relationship.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by marco_135i

Is this even legit? Where was this information obtained from?

Yes it's legit. It came out of the March sales Support Programs Bulletin. Saw it with my own eyes.

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Put $15k down on a $50k car for 72 months and it should be ~$600 a month. Sell it at 3 years. Make profit.

Or choose the balloon payment option. Finance for even lower then sell the car for profit.

please pass whatever it is you're smoking. i would like some

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

This whole thread is full of useless crap. If you're paying $800 in principle every month for 36 months, that's almost $30,000 after three years. Who is going to sell their three year old M2 for $26,000? No one.

You could likely sell it for $40,000 which means your buyout from BMW would allow you to pocket almost $14,000. Pretty sure you will get more than 40 but let's just keep it simple. $14,000 over three years is nearly $400 a month. So it's almost as if you're only paying $5-600 a month for the lease.

Most BMW leases you pay and you get nothing at the end. With this lease if you decide to walk away at 36 months, you're likely pocketing a lot of money. Shit, you could walk at 24 months and still come out with cash.

That is exactly how Audi tries to sell their low residual leases. "I can get you out early." or "There will be equity in the end you can use or get back." When leasing, I prefer a higher residual. Taking a low residual may leave you with equity... Or may not. It shifts the risk of depreciation to the lessee from the lessor. No thanks.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

That is exactly how Audi tries to sell their low residual leases. "I can get you out early." or "There will be equity in the end you can use or get back." When leasing, I prefer a higher residual. Taking a low residual may leave you with equity... Or may not. It shifts the risk of depreciation to the lessee from the lessor. No thanks.

In in the same boat. When I do lease, which isn't all the time, I want lowest cost for the term then give the damn thing back. My favorite 4-letter word, for cars and women and just about everything else, is "next!" I'd rather have BMW upside down than me.

[G8rGrl]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Question for you guys - at least for those who want to or need to lease for whatever reason. M2 is more car than the 235, no doubt and not trying to argue that point. But at this pricing, is it 2x nicer (based on rough payment estimates)? I've gotta say that's a bit of a stretch. If I had to lease I'd be looking at other options as folks have mentioned. $56k for the car if you buy it outright is a tremendous value for what you're getting. But on a 36 month lease I can't say it's a great value compared to the 235. Depending on specifics of the deal you're paying what maybe as much as $20k over the term compared to a car that with similar options is what $5k less MSRP? Again if you're buying this doesn't matter, but for folks who need to lease that's a big chunk of coin to choke down.

No, the M2 is not 2x as nice as the M235i. The M2 also is not as nice as higher MSRP cars than can be had for lower monthly payments. The "gamble" with leasing this particular car is whether the value at the end of the lease term will be higher than the lease buyout. We can't predict that with certainty.

[eburnette]

Originally Posted by LinkF1

Quite bad. My wife's Z4 is above 70%.

A low 50's residual is pretty weak but I would never use a 70 percent residual as a reference. That's an absurdly high residual. A 36/12k on a Honda civic isn't even close to 70 percent.

Residual on a 2016 328i 36/12k is 58 percent currently. That is a fair benchmark

M cars and 7 series always have low residuals. This is nothing new for people who are in the market for cars of this ilk.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

It is all about cash in hand. Cash is KING !

You can get a much higher return on that dough somewhere else yo.

Exactly. Better putting cash into higher earning investments and paying a small finance charge to borrow/lease.

[firedown31]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

This whole thread is full of useless crap. If you're paying $800 in principle every month for 36 months, that's almost $30,000 after three years. Who is going to sell their three year old M2 for $26,000? No one.

You could likely sell it for $40,000 which means your buyout from BMW would allow you to pocket almost $14,000. Pretty sure you will get more than 40 but let's just keep it simple. $14,000 over three years is nearly $400 a month. So it's almost as if you're only paying $5-600 a month for the lease.

Most BMW leases you pay and you get nothing at the end. With this lease if you decide to walk away at 36 months, you're likely pocketing a lot of money. Shit, you could walk at 24 months and still come out with cash.

A 3 year old M2, MSRP $54k, will depreciate a hell of a lot more than $14k over 3 years. That would be a 75% residual! This car is not the 1M, is it not limited production, and there is an LCI coming in a year or 2 so your current first year lease won't be the "latest and greatest" thing come lease end.

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by Alden_88M

Well depends from witch perspective you want to see it, For example if i created something sold it for a certain price then a few years later the same thing gets sold for twice the price just an example, I would slap my self silly for not selling it later, Now this is the case with apartments and houses mostly, They tend to go up in value, A car that increases its value is rare so if i were sitting at BMW marketing department i would say to my self "Damn we sold it to cheap"

Cause someone is making money of a product that you created to earn money on. And its contradicting the the very thing about cars they are "not" suppose to gain value specially something new like the 1M the car ain't that old to be called a "Classic" for it to gain value after sometime, That is what makes the 1M so unique in its own way. The minute the car was sold it dropped in value the first year then started gaining value because its so rare.

So imagine finding a 1M 20 years from now in pretty much perfect condition imagine the value of the car. Its probably on of the fastest serial produced car that have gained the symbol of a "Classic" and is only gaining value unless its been modded to hell or driven really far.

So why would it be a bad thing, Well a lot of people not all but many here on this forums have a "weekend" car and a "daily driver" car, Those who have the 1M as a weekend car probably won't buy a new BMW as a daily drive cause BMW's ain't that cheap so why not choose something like a KIA or equally as a daily commuter, Unless you are a BMW family then the choice is clear. So that would mean 1 less customer for BMW. Until that customer sells his/hers 1M and earns a lot of money on it to buy maybe a new BMW or another brand.

As many have said and agreed upon the 1M is one of the "last" real BMW's out there. But i guess that's a personal preference.

Hopefully you understand what i meant if i was to unclear.

Still can't find any logic behind what you claim, that is not how the market works at all. So just let us agree on that we disagree...

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by G8rGrl

No, the M2 is not 2x as nice as the M235i. The M2 also is not as nice as higher MSRP cars than can be had for lower monthly payments. The "gamble" with leasing this particular car is whether the value at the end of the lease term will be higher than the lease buyout. We can't predict that with certainty.

Right. But just using round numbers and ignoring interest and taxes to keep the math easy, let's say the car is $50k new, $25k residual and worth $35k market value end of 36 months. You'll still have paid an extra $10k over the term of the lease and get that $ back if you buy out and sell at the end. If you're a cash buyer you win bc the car held better, but finance or lease you still end up in basically the same spot. Only way to really win the leasing game is when BMW miscalculated the residual high and you can negotiate a better price for buy out. So using the same numbers $50k new, $35 residual and $25k market value - if you can negotiate the buyout down to $30k for instance you can get BMW to eat some. Like I said simple math for sake of argument but you get my point.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by eburnette

A low 50's residual is pretty weak but I would never use a 70 percent residual as a reference. That's an absurdly high residual. A 36/12k on a Honda civic isn't even close to 70 percent.

Residual on a 2016 328i 36/12k is 58 percent currently. That is a fair benchmark

M cars and 7 series always have low residuals. This is nothing new for people who are in the market for cars of this ilk.

My M4 lease has a residual of 58% for 36/15. M3 residuals were even better at the time. I don't think all Ms are low residual.

(For reference, when shopping, Audi RS5 residual was 49% for 36/15.)

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Right. But just using round numbers and ignoring interest and taxes to keep the math easy, let's say the car is $50k new, $25k residual and worth $35k market value end of 36 months. You'll still have paid an extra $10k over the term of the lease and get that $ back if you buy out and sell at the end. If you're a cash buyer you win bc the car held better, but finance or lease you still end up in basically the same spot. Only way to really win the leasing game is when BMW miscalculated the residual high and you can negotiate a better price for buy out. So using the same numbers $50k new, $35 residual and $25k market value - if you can negotiate the buyout down to $30k for instance you can get BMW to eat some. Like I said simple math for sake of argument but you get my point.

1. You are not getting 70% residual / market value for a car with 45K miles on it after 3 years.
2. You pay all sales tax when buying vs. a portion of sales tax when leasing (in most states).
3. High residuals from BMW are incentives to move cars, not calculation errors.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

1. You are not getting 70% residual / market value for a car with 45K miles on it after 3 years.
2. You pay all sales tax when buying vs. a portion of sales tax when leasing (in most states).
3. High residuals from BMW are incentives to move cars, not calculation errors.

1. I said round numbers never meant you'd get 70% that's crazy and should have been obvious
2. If you buy and sell to take advantage of arbitrage you pay taxes. It's a now or later argument.
3. You missed my point entirely but there's no sense in arguing the point it really doesn't matter to me what you do w your $

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by firedown31

A 3 year old M2, MSRP $54k, will depreciate a hell of a lot more than $14k over 3 years. That was be a 75% residual! This car is not the 1M, is it not limited production, and there is an LCI coming in a year or 2 so your current first year lease won't be the "latest and greatest" thing come lease end.

I guess we will see. I don't think enough of these will be around to make it a buyer's market compared to how many will be looking for a low cost M2 with a few thousand miles. The idea of the M2 being for the younger generation of M buyers is a reality, it just doesn't exist in the new car buying world. I think it will for the used car market. But I don't see the price of the car coming down a lot. I really don't see the price being affected by LCI. From what I have read, you might see new headlights and tail lights. Maybe a new M color. But as much as I dislike LBB, I don't think a new color would cause me to part with an extra $10k as a used car buyer just to have the better color on a new car.

[P-Bass]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Leasing a Porsche !

Buying a CPO 991/911...

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

1. I said round numbers never meant you'd get 70% that's crazy and should have been obvious
2. If you buy and sell to take advantage of arbitrage you pay taxes. It's a now or later argument.
3. You missed my point entirely but there's no sense in arguing the point it really doesn't matter to me what you do w your $

35/50 (your post) is 70%, which you are now saying is crazy.

I agree I don't see a purpose in debating when you are throwing random numbers around in an attempt to make a point.

[TunedM2C]

I'd opt for the PenFed balloon over those lease figures.

Payment Saver New Auto Loan
Rate Term Loan Amount
1.74% APR 24 to 36 months $10,000 to $100,000
2.24% APR 37 to 48 months $10,000 to $100,000
2.49% APR 49 to 60 months $10,000 to $100,000


Loan Payment Example: A $27,000 new auto financed at 2.49% APR; 60 monthly payments of approximately $379.00 each, with a final balloon payment of approximately $6,729.00.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

35/50 (your post) is 70%, which you are now saying is crazy.

I agree I don't see a purpose in debating when you are throwing random numbers around in an attempt to make a point.

People always get into stupid bullshit arguments when discussing leases. Pick whatever numbers you want. It's just math. If the spread is $1, $100, $1000 or any other number you want to pick the logic still holds. I'm not looking to explain basic math to you. I picked numbers randomly because it literally doesn't matter to make the point. If you can't get over that I don't know what to tell you. Pick whatever numbers you want, it will work the same way. If there's a gap, ANY gap, between what the car is worth and your residual is less, you paid more for the car than the market would dictate. So you can't just buy and sell and keep the "profit" because you already spent a good portion of it.

[RickFLM4]

I'll pass on further debate with you since it will obviously go nowhere.

[Nahlem]

Originally Posted by metrickid

Still can't find any logic behind what you claim, that is not how the market works at all. So just let us agree on that we disagree...

Well i guss we have to agree to disagree, the market for the 1M works differnetly then what it will do for the m2, the 1M Will only gain value pretty much for rest of its lifetime, whilst the m2 will loose value for rests of it's production lifetime and afterwards due to not being so unique nor limited. Simple as that :-)

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

I'll pass on further debate with you since it will obviously go nowhere.

Was just about to say the same. Best of luck in your car search and financial decisions hope you get a good deal for yourself. We are quite obviously talking past each other and are both probably 100% right just not understanding the other's point.