[reppucci]

Originally Posted by chambolle

I won't part with my October '94 production hellrot E36 M3. It's too good looking and too damned much fun to drive, esp. with recently dinanized suspension and a few other discreet mods. But for a long drive on I-5, my M2 is a faster, safer, far more comfortable ride. Plus I could turn the passenger seat heater on at 3 bars and cook dinner en route.

Ditto!! Oct 94 production Cosmos 95 OBD1 M3 with Black Rain Interior. Love the M2 but the E36 M3 is also special and really fun to drive. Bone stock! My e36 vin is EH02889. Maybe our cars are assembly line mates!

[swilliams]

I plan to buy an E46 M3 within the next couple years to serve as my weekend wrenching car. With the maintenance requirements of the E46M I never considered it for DD beater duty (E36M is better suited). I knew it would be too much mental stress worrying about every possible flaw of the car. So, I jumped on the M2 as my DD and it's wonderful - I absolutely love it! It's my modern day E46 and with Euro Delivery, to boot!

But...the E46M continues to be the most attractive to my eye even after all these years. I just need to find the right one.
Ultimate dream is to fit a CSL-style intake for the sound alone.

[ClothSeats]

I plan to get an E36 as a beater, they are still fun and relatively low maintenance compared to the E46 M3. E46 has a more expensive and special feel though.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by swilliams

I plan to buy an E46 M3 within the next couple years to serve as my weekend wrenching car. With the maintenance requirements of the E46M I never considered it for DD beater duty (E36M is better suited). I knew it would be too much mental stress worrying about every possible flaw of the car. So, I jumped on the M2 as my DD and it's wonderful - I absolutely love it! It's my modern day E46 and with Euro Delivery, to boot!

But...the E46M continues to be the most attractive to my eye even after all these years. I just need to find the right one.
Ultimate dream is to fit a CSL-style intake for the sound alone.

I think the e46 M3 has taken on a bad rep reliability wise because people buy it and just hope for the best. You can lock down its only two significant failure modes in a day, for less than $300 in parts if you DIY. Beisan VANOS pump disk ($150 after core return) eliminates the tab sheering issue, loctite on the cam bolts eliminates the backing out issue, and BMW structural foam ($140) locks down the subframe. Knock those three out before failure and you have a car that's pretty damn reliable-- I've been DDing one for 14 years now, outside of a 1 year M5 break (too big for me). They are lock down once and good forever fixes, too (not just resetting the clock)!

I switched to DDing a fully mechanically/electronically converted to M3 e46 wagon, so I restore my (CSL boxed) coupe to like new and run shorter life span (e.g. Ohlins) and harsher (monoballs) components on it.

I did have an e36 M3 beater for a couple years, when I had to regularly drive into the city, and it was a fun car. But, I had a ton of the e36 chassis issues with it-- busted through a front shock tower, rear shock tower, tore off a sway mount, and tore an RTAB pocket. But, at least I didn't have engine failure as a result of the oil pump nut backing out, like my brother did! You can see why I find the e46 to be an easier starting point (e36 failure modes can be locked down as well, but there's a lot more of them and they take a lot more effort) :P

That said, ride quality (and civility in general), stock vs stock, is much better on the e36 than e46, so if that's a significant factor in your DD choice, I could see that pushing the ball towards e36m.

[swilliams]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I think the e46 M3 has taken on a bad rep reliability wise because people buy it and just hope for the best. You can lock down its only two significant failure modes in a day, for less than $300 in parts if you DIY. Beisan VANOS pump disk ($150 after core return) eliminates the tab sheering issue, loctite on the cam bolts eliminates the backing out issue, and BMW structural foam ($140) locks down the subframe. Knock those three out before failure and you have a car that's pretty damn reliable-- I've been DDing one for 14 years now, outside of a 1 year M5 break (too big for me). They are lock down once and good forever fixes, too (not just resetting the clock)!

I switched to DDing a fully mechanically/electronically converted to M3 e46 wagon, so I restore my (CSL boxed) coupe to like new and run shorter life span (e.g. Ohlins) and harsher (monoballs) components on it.

I did have an e36 M3 beater for a couple years, when I had to regularly drive into the city, and it was a fun car. But, I had a ton of the e36 chassis issues with it-- busted through a front shock tower, rear shock tower, tore off a sway mount, and tore an RTAB pocket. But, at least I didn't have engine failure as a result of the oil pump nut backing out, like my brother did! You can see why I find the e46 to be an easier starting point (e36 failure modes can be locked down as well, but there's a lot more of them and they take a lot more effort) :P

That said, ride quality (and civility in general), stock vs stock, is much better on the e36 than e46, so if that's a significant factor in your DD choice, I could see that pushing the ball towards e36m.

No need convincing me! I'm getting one, for sure, and the "fixes" will be fun to work on as a weekend car restoration. (btw, I'm a longtime lurker of m3forum - your cars are awesome!)

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by swilliams

No need convincing me! I'm getting one, for sure, and the "fixes" will be fun to work on as a weekend car restoration. (btw, I'm a longtime lurker of m3forum - your cars are awesome!)

Thanks

[W///]

Originally Posted by Franzino

Now that makes sense I have a Z4M roadster + M2 + 325i e46 wagon/touring... It's a great combination of cars with a lot of difference between them. I see zero reason why I would want two 4 seater coupe's (e46 M3 + M2) who somewhat both deliver the same driving experience; of course with the engine and steering being the biggest difference between the two cars. I like my cars to have enough difference between them....

Nice combo of cars you have. I'm about to add an AW/IR Z4MR. I went with a Z4MR over an E46 M3 because I wanted more variety in the cars I have. Already have an E36 M3 (my DD) and my E92 M3 (my garage queen), so the Z4MR will add an open top driving experience which I will very much enjoy.

Considering replacing my ageing Toyota 4Runner with an E39 Touring to make it an all BMW affair, but that will be a while down the road.

Originally Posted by swilliams

I plan to buy an E46 M3 within the next couple years to serve as my weekend wrenching car. With the maintenance requirements of the E46M I never considered it for DD beater duty (E36M is better suited). I knew it would be too much mental stress worrying about every possible flaw of the car. So, I jumped on the M2 as my DD and it's wonderful - I absolutely love it! It's my modern day E46 and with Euro Delivery, to boot!

But...the E46M continues to be the most attractive to my eye even after all these years. I just need to find the right one.
Ultimate dream is to fit a CSL-style intake for the sound alone.

I think you're on the right track. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, the E36 M3 is a far cheaper car to DD than an E46 M3, which is partly why I bought one 2 years ago. It also feels more compact than an E46 M3 and it's just from a different era almost. I have no desire to ever get rid of my Techno Violet coupe (that goes for my E92 M3 and Z4MR too actually)

Would love to test drive an M2 one day though

[swilliams]

Originally Posted by W///

I think you're on the right track. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, the E36 M3 is a far cheaper car to DD than an E46 M3, which is partly why I bought one 2 years ago. It also feels more compact than an E46 M3 and it's just from a different era almost. I have no desire to ever get rid of my Techno Violet coupe (that goes for my E92 M3 and Z4MR too actually)

Would love to test drive an M2 one day though

I owned an E36 M3 for 3 years mainly as a weekend car. Sold it 2 years ago with the intent to get into an LSB E46 M3 - I searched for a year and then the M2 was released. I got a new job ($) and my mind was made up - M2 with ED. If the M2 didn't exist I'd be in an LSB M3 right now.

[c63er]

What I most loved about the e46 is that it was able to combine a relative smooth ride, amenities and quality with a car that had some serious emotion while driving and character.

I think that was the ultimate strength of the e46, that it was the ultimate compromise of everything you would want in a car (especially being FUN)

Favorite bmw

[twboy1999]

i would say both cars great and the prices of clean example of e46 m3 are going up

both are equally fun to drive, however the handling of m2 still amazes me

[RaceCarDriver]

Originally Posted by gtr

I do not know why since both the E46M3 and the F87 M2 are so similar but I'm in the mood to buy a E46 M3 beater.

The reasoning is perhaps all my cars are EPS and I miss the old school raw hydraulic steering feel.

I have a LBB M2, 6 speed. I used to have a 2003 Laguna Seca Blue Coupe, 6 speed, sunroof delete but it was stolen. Great car I miss it. I would have kept it forever. Definitely add a E46 M3.

Hopefully these videos put you in the mood for the E46 M3.

Good Luck in your search !

[discoboy1]

Folks better hurry prices will go up

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/pr...is-bmw-m3-now/

[V1JLB]

I have both, love my E46 M3 and i have owned it since it was 3 years old, its a very capable car and has been a joy to own and use for the last 11 years.

[Pyrat 2]

Yes I was thinking about an e46 m3 to complement my M2. Ended up buying an e36 m3 instead.

[swilliams]

This is still my favorite E46 video, thanks to Obioban . That induction sound...

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by swilliams

This is still my favorite E46 video, thanks to Obioban . That induction sound...

I have a much quieter (though more powerful) exhaust track, now.

Since 90% of what you're hearing in that video is intake (outside of when I'm backing out of my friend's driveway), pretty much sounds unchanged (to better) now.

[Artemis]

Q: "Any other current M2 owner thinking about a E46 M3 ?"

As the length of both the E46 M3 and F87 M2 stays under 4500 mm (177.2 in), both can still qualify as 'compact' in my book.

Comparison of figures about size and weight:

BMW 1M

• Length: 172.4 in / 4380 mm | Width: 71.0 in / 1803 mm | Height: 55.9 in / 1420 mm
• Wheelbase: 104.7 in / 2660 mm | Front Track: 60.7 in / 1541 mm | Rear Track: 60.7 in / 1541 mm
• Curb Weight: 3296 lbs / 1495 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | Weight unladen: 3461 lbs / 1570 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)

BMW M235i

• Length: 174.5 in / 4432 mm | Width: 69.8 in / 1774 mm | Height: 55.8 in / 1418 mm
• Wheelbase: 105.9 in / 2690 mm | Front Track: 59.9 in / 1521 mm | Rear Track: 61.3 in / 1556 mm
• EU Curb Weight 6MT: 3373 lbs / 1530 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | Weight unladen: 3538 lbs / 1605 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)
• EU Curb Weight auto: 3406 lbs / 1545 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | Weight unladen: 3571 lbs / 1620 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)
• US Curb Weight (including full fluids and frequently ordered options) 6MT: 3505 lbs / 1590 kg
• US Curb Weight (including full fluids and frequently ordered options) auto: 3535 lbs / 1603 kg

BMW M2

• Length: 175.9 in / 4468 mm | Width: 73.0 in / 1854 mm | Height: 55.5 in / 1410 mm
• Wheelbase: 106.0 in / 2693 mm | Front Track: 62.2 in / 1579 mm | Rear Track: 63.0 in / 1601 mm
• EU Curb Weight 6MT: 3296 lbs / 1495 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | Weight unladen: 3461 lbs / 1570 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)
• EU Curb Weight DCT: 3351 lbs / 1520 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | Weight unladen: 3516 lbs / 1595 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)

BMW E46 M3

• Length: 176.8|176.9 in / 4491|4493 mm | Width: 70.1 in / 1781 mm | Height: 54.0|53.9 in / 1372|1369 mm)
• Wheelbase: 107.5 in / 2730 mm
• Curb weight: 3415 lbs / 1549 kg

BMW F80 M3

• Length: 183.9 in / 4671 mm | Width: 73.9 in / 1877 mm | Height: 56.0 in / 1424 mm
• Wheelbase: 110.7 in / 2812 mm | Front Track: 62.1 in / 1579 mm | Rear Track: 63.1 / 1603 mm
• Weight: 3300 lbs / 1497 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | 3466 lbs / 1572 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)
• US curb weight (including full fluids and frequently ordered options): 6MT: 3530 lbs / 1601 kg | DCT: 3585 lbs / 1626 kg

BMW F82 M4

• Length: 183.9 in / 4671 mm | Width: 73.6 in / 1870 mm | Height: 54.4 in / 1383 mm
• Wheelbase: 110.7 in / 2812 mm | Front track: 62.1 in / 1579 mm | Rear track: 63.1 / 1603 mm
• Weight: 3300 lbs / 1497 kg (all fluids / 90% fuel / no driver) | 3466 lbs / 1572 kg (+ 68 kg driver + 7 kg luggage)
• US curb weight (including full fluids and frequently ordered options): 6MT: 3530 lbs / 1601 kg | DCT: 3585 lbs / 1626 kg

[gtr]

I bought a 04 6speed. The car is cheap but the extras is not. Fuel pump and fuel filter was just done prior to purchase. I doubt any preventive maintenance was done by the last owner.

With unknown history since 80k miles and now at 107k, I figure it's gonna cost me $2500.00 for full cooling system overall kit with pulleys, belts/tensioner . Calculate the parts will cost over $1500 and I was quoted $1000 in labor.

Maintenance II will also be done along with all fluids due at 100k.

I guess it's all or nothing at this point. If I go ahead and spend the maintenance, now I'm debating if I should go all the way with stoptech, upgraded shocks, and some new tires such Pilot SS. I estimated at least $10k in extras all said and done on something that just drives different than my M2.

Or go bare minimum (maintenance 2) have fun for a year and trade up for the next toy.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by gds52

I was almost sold on M2, but was waiting for more colors to come.
I understand your feeling for hydraulic steering....that's what pulled me from M2 to Z4M coupe.
If you are looking for second car I would say check out Z4M coupe or roadster.

+1
Same engine, awesome driving experience, totally different feeling then M2 and e46 M3, more exclusive and more exotic then e46 M3... Z4M vs e46 M3 as a second car; I would take the Z4M every time! As an only car; then it's a different story.

[Franzino]

Originally Posted by W///

Nice combo of cars you have. I'm about to add an AW/IR Z4MR. I went with a Z4MR over an E46 M3 because I wanted more variety in the cars I have. Already have an E36 M3 (my DD) and my E92 M3 (my garage queen), so the Z4MR will add an open top driving experience which I will very much enjoy.

Considering replacing my ageing Toyota 4Runner with an E39 Touring to make it an all BMW affair, but that will be a while down the road.

Thanks and a good choice
The Z4MR is indeed a lovely car... I love mine with my mods (CSL wheels, AP racing brakes, Bilstein suspension).. It's awesome to have an open top, more old school roadster with an NA engine VS a modern turbocharged, very handy fast pocket rocket. They are both great! But if for some reason I could only keep one BMW M, then I would keep my Z4M... I love them both; but the Z4MR is more speciale to me. It's my first M car that is totally modified to my own driving taste and I'm emotionally attached to it.

[littleoldman]

One minor or major service and you wish you hadnt bought an old BMW...Remember, they werent the most reliable. Fun maybe, but not reliable....ask me how I know.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Franzino

+1
Same engine, awesome driving experience, totally different feeling then M2 and e46 M3, more exclusive and more exotic then e46 M3... Z4M vs e46 M3 as a second car; I would take the Z4M every time! As an only car; then it's a different story.

Originally Posted by Franzino

Thanks and a good choice
The Z4MR is indeed a lovely car... I love mine with my mods (CSL wheels, AP racing brakes, Bilstein suspension).. It's awesome to have an open top, more old school roadster with an NA engine VS a modern turbocharged, very handy fast pocket rocket. They are both great! But if for some reason I could only keep one BMW M, then I would keep my Z4M... I love them both; but the Z4MR is more speciale to me. It's my first M car that is totally modified to my own driving taste and I'm emotionally attached to it.

I'd take a Z4M vert over an M3 vert, but I'd rather have the M3 coupe than Z4M coupe. The M3 looks better outside (subjective, but I think most agree), has a more comfortable, higher quality interior, better visibility, handles better, can fit 4 extra wheels/tires in the back seat with a jack/tools/luggage in the trunk (track), can have people in the back seat, and has hugely better aftermarket support in every aspect. The only benefits I see to the z4mc are chassis stiffness (but that doesn't seem to payoff, since it handles worse) and rarity (but that's only a benefit if you like rarity for rarity, otherwise it just means worse aftermarket support and higher part pricing for parts unique to the car).

I'd go with the Z4M vert because the M3 vert loses all its practicality benefits and gains a ton of weight, while losing a ton of stiffness. The Z4 was designed as a vert from the beginning, so it retains sufficient stiffness. The M3 vert... suffers dynamically.

Originally Posted by littleoldman

One minor or major service and you wish you hadnt bought an old BMW...Remember, they werent the most reliable. Fun maybe, but not reliable....ask me how I know.

I've been DDing e46 M3s for 14 years now (had a year off in an e39 M5... to big for me, so I put my wife in in at got myself a second M3 (wagon) to DD)... and disagree. And I drive 30,000 miles per year, and have 10,000+ track miles on the coupe-- so it's not an easy life they lead!

If you neglect them and hope for the best, they can bite you. If you lock down the subframe and vanos ($500 in parts one time to lock it down forever, a day of labor) when you get the car (BEFORE they fail), replace the cooling system at 100,000 mile intervals, and replace the rod bearings as oil analysis dictates (50,000 miles for track only cars, forever for cars that don't go above 7500 rpm, most cars driven aggressively will need them at 100,000-150,000 mile intervals), there's not much expensive that can fail.

In 14 years e46 M3 DDing, I've broken down one time.

That said, it can be rough these days to buy one, as SO MANY cars have been completely neglected/abused. It's why the e46 m3 market has cars ranging in price from $12,000 to $50,000. I can't imagine myself buy a sub $25,000 e46 M3 in the current market (which isn't to say all $25,000 e46 m3s are worth it-- have to find one that's actually worth the asking price, too), and that's going the route of starting with an SMG car and converting it myself to manual (not overly hard to do these days). Buying a 6mt car, a $30,000 car is probably the cheapest car I'd be interested in now.

DIYing an inspection 2 (most expensive service for the car) takes ~$300 in parts/fluids, and happens every 40,000-60,000 miles (depending on driving style). Hardly a back breaking expense.