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      03-25-2018, 02:12 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
That's certainly not what he meant. '19 comp can be had at MSRP, a price he's guessing will compare similarly as M3/4 before discounts.
Ahhh ok... Thanks
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      03-25-2018, 02:21 PM   #178
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Well that escalated quickly. I thought about crafting a proper response, but that would simply take too much time and much like Stage IV, I've kind of lost interest at this point. Instead...a few quick bullet points:

i) My sincerest apologies to the OP who wanted nothing more from this thread than to encourage everyone to drive their soon to be worthless M2s to the nearest branch of Habitat for Humanity so the homeless can live in them. I did ask in my post, not to have this turn into a lease v. buy thread, however I am Canadian so I have a pathological need to apologize.

ii) @ Doug - no hard feelings - I actually really enjoyed the whole "let's bet" thing, thought it was quite funny, it's just too bad that none of the metrics you suggest make any sense in my particular set of circumstances as I don't live in IL - or the US for that matter. Maybe I'll lease my next car from a dealership in Chicago, then you can berate my financial decisions in proper context.

iii) The guy who said "Leasing is for poor people"...I mean, the ignorance of that comment speaks for itself.

iv) @ afwares - don't waste your time dude. There are some that refuse to accept that there are other states/provinces/countries in this world that might just have different rules/laws and where people may have different personal/business inputs where a business case may have a different outcome from the one in their own backyard.

I could go on...by why, really.

Suffice it to say, that everyone has their own set of circumstances and to make blanket lease v. buy statements like "this is 100% the way to go" or "You must be poor, maybe you should buy a scooter." simply shows the limited vision of some and that others need to do some serious reading...maybe start with Cat in the Hat, I wouldn't want you to struggle with the words.
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      03-25-2018, 04:39 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quite likely the M2 Competition will sell close to MSRP this year (and in some places with mark-ups). On the other hand only few M3/M4 sell at MSRP (discounts galore).
So, 'M2 Competition': in-house 'competition' for the M3/M4.
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Originally Posted by Pilot-Z View Post
You think the Comp will be similar to the '18 MSRP? I sure hope so!
That's certainly not what he meant. '19 comp can be had at MSRP, a price he's guessing will compare similarly as M3/4 before discounts.
What I meant:
  • M2 Competition base price is expected to be several $K more than the current M2 base price (rumors range from a €4K up to a €12K price-increase) + it won't be easy to get discounts in 2018 as demand will be high (new car frenzy, including mark-ups in some places). Go fully kitted out with the options list and your M2 Competition may cost M3/M4 money;
  • the official M3/M4 base price is higher than the 'real world' M3/M4 price: those cars change hands with high discounts. F80 M3 gets closer to its end of production (rumored: EOP = October 2018);
  • Ergo, for 2018 (launch year with high demand for the M2 Competition), the 'real world' price-delta 'M2 Competition vs M3/M4' may turn out to be smaller than you may expect. Better chances for 'M2 Competition' discounts in 2019 and 2020 (no limited production - only limited by production capacity).
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      03-25-2018, 06:01 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
What I meant:
  • M2 Competition base price is expected to be several $K more than the current M2 base price (rumors range from a €4K up to a €12K price-increase) + it won't be easy to get discounts in 2018 as demand will be high (new car frenzy, including mark-ups in some places). Go fully kitted out with the options list and your M2 Competition may cost M3/M4 money;
  • the official M3/M4 base price is higher than the 'real world' M3/M4 price: those cars change hands with high discounts. F80 M3 gets closer to its end of production (rumored: EOP = October 2018);
  • Ergo, for 2018 (launch year with high demand for the M2 Competition), the 'real world' price-delta 'M2 Competition vs M3/M4' may turn out to be smaller than you may expect. Better chances for 'M2 Competition' discounts in 2019 and 2020 (no limited production - only limited by production capacity).
And of course, the other auto producers don't stand still. The "hot hatch" category has been very active lately, and there will probably be more competition on the lower end. Porsche (and Audi) won't be standing still either, so there will be new competition at the higher end also.

The big change is going to be when BMW abandons RWD and Manual Transmissions. At that point I think BMW will lose a large part of their audience.
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      03-25-2018, 08:33 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87_LCI View Post
ii) @ Doug - no hard feelings - I actually really enjoyed the whole "let's bet" thing, thought it was quite funny, it's just too bad that none of the metrics you suggest make any sense in my particular set of circumstances as I don't live in IL - or the US for that matter. Maybe I'll lease my next car from a dealership in Chicago, then you can berate my financial decisions in proper context.
ohh, if you live in Toronto I want you to win - we could go to Canoe! #yummy
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      03-26-2018, 09:54 AM   #182
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Who will want a double or bi-turbo engine and keep it for a long time, maybe a new generation fan of ecological technologies ready for electrical sport power which i totally respect but its not for me.
Yes; the N55 is a twin scroll but so close ( personal feeling) to a NA and just thinking having two turbos in my engine will give me the same feeling of having a 4 pistons with the best efficiency technology can offer, i mean zero happiness

PS: just a little bit jalous of the new sport seats.
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      03-29-2018, 10:35 AM   #183
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for selfish reasons and my fiance not letting me spend above a certain price point for a "toy" I hope it drives the price of the older model years a little lower so I can hop into one easier!

I lurked these forums for about 6 months with the intent of buying the my18 just for the facelift, but now since we pulled the trigger on the x3 m40i I am thinking I'll get a VERY lightly used my16-18 (whichever price I see best for my budget)....once the my19 craze hits the market.

I still love the m2 from a distance (hopefully when I buy one, I'll still feel the same) and I think there are many of us out there in this country who don't own one that would still enjoy any model year regardless of it was a my16 or my19+

the hard question will be dct or 6spd and if it's going to black or grey when I get one...not what model year.

lol...at a lot of the comments.
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      03-29-2018, 03:55 PM   #184
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To the OP's original question, I think of course some buyers (maybe many buyers) will consider the S55 version more desirable, and it may end up retaining a higher % of value, barring something unusual like S55 reliability issues or an undesirable change in handling characteristics, etc. But making the purchase decision with an overemphasis on expected resale value is a Pandora's box.

Let's say a potential buyer skips purchase of an N55 for the S55 because you think it will hold value better. Do you stop with just the engine? Or do you ask yourself whether the next person will definitely want the upgraded seats? Of course the next buyer will hope I've added the carbon fiber trim package and parking sensors. And if they want the S55, they may plan on tracking the car, so I should probably add the upgraded brakes. All of a sudden what would have been a $55K N55 purchase has turned into a $70K S55 purchase. And instead of just 'believing' resale will be higher, you're now 'hoping' resale is higher because you've increased your initial outlay by more than 25%, and you've done so for a car that will be absolutely perfect for some unidentified buyer in the future rather than the actual person buying the car today.

Before things fell into place for us, we talked about future desirability between the two and we toyed with waiting for the M2 Competition. But we realized that that thinking can be a trap, and it can lead to buying a car and spending an amount for the future benefit of someone besides us. It's easy to get caught up in what other people are doing and you lose sight of what you should be doing.
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      03-29-2018, 04:27 PM   #185
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As a buyer, you just should accept the idea that it's going to be your car (and you should get what you want), instead of worrying about what the next owner of the car will think. Making a decision about buying a specific car based first on its resale value often just means you're over your head buying the car in the first place. And all your dreams will be shattered if you wreck or damage the car and diminish its value while you're making payments and babysitting it for someone in the future.
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      03-29-2018, 06:07 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afwares View Post
To the OP's original question, I think of course some buyers (maybe many buyers) will consider the S55 version more desirable, and it may end up retaining a higher % of value, barring something unusual like S55 reliability issues or an undesirable change in handling characteristics, etc. But making the purchase decision with an overemphasis on expected resale value is a Pandora's box.

Let's say a potential buyer skips purchase of an N55 for the S55 because you think it will hold value better. Do you stop with just the engine? Or do you ask yourself whether the next person will definitely want the upgraded seats? Of course the next buyer will hope I've added the carbon fiber trim package and parking sensors. And if they want the S55, they may plan on tracking the car, so I should probably add the upgraded brakes. All of a sudden what would have been a $55K N55 purchase has turned into a $70K S55 purchase. And instead of just 'believing' resale will be higher, you're now 'hoping' resale is higher because you've increased your initial outlay by more than 25%, and you've done so for a car that will be absolutely perfect for some unidentified buyer in the future rather than the actual person buying the car today.

Before things fell into place for us, we talked about future desirability between the two and we toyed with waiting for the M2 Competition. But we realized that that thinking can be a trap, and it can lead to buying a car and spending an amount for the future benefit of someone besides us. It's easy to get caught up in what other people are doing and you lose sight of what you should be doing.
You still get to enjoy those options you paid for while you have the car though as well as whatever the base S55 brings. That's not worth $0 to the original owner.
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      05-22-2018, 02:59 PM   #187
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Love this thread ...
let's wish all the best to new M2C baby car, but seriously, it will never match the N55 magic sound and current M2 sexy shape ... so now I am more and more certain, it will keep its market value ... unfortunately
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      05-22-2018, 03:40 PM   #188
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I’m relatively new to the BMW community but been a member of many auto communities over the years. Kind of surprised at the amount of head shaking threads like this.
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      05-22-2018, 04:17 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I'm relatively new to the BMW community but been a member of many auto communities over the years. Kind of surprised at the amount of head shaking threads like this.
Sure BMW fans are a bit (too) mad of their M cars sorry
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      05-23-2018, 08:15 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
...once the S55 hits the shelves? As much as I like and enjoy my M2, I can imagine that potential buyers will prefer the M2 with the real M engine, turning N55's into paperweights... just look at the Z3M and compare the prices of S50 vs S52, mind you, both being proper M engines...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
I'm not saying the N55 is a bad package, I just wonder what the engine swap will do to the value of an N55...
"real M engine", "proper M engines", "value": take your M2 through a narrow mountain tunnel, windows rolled down, and let the N55 engine + M Performance Exhaust sing the song of the ///M people.

Value ? Priceless !
I sooo agree with you on letting the N55 sing it's tune. : Just fitted my Fi Exhaust valvetronic system that comes with catless downpipes and I LOVE IT.

On a separate note all together I'll hopefully find out of the S55 engine that is arriving from my guy in Germany will fit the M2's bay. It's a tad nerve wrecking tinkering with my 3 week old 2018 M2 but to an extent the announcement of the M2C annoyed me as it came 10 hours I took delivery.
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      05-23-2018, 08:35 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amelia.f87m2 View Post
I sooo agree with you on letting the N55 sing it's tune. : Just fitted my Fi Exhaust valvetronic system that comes with catless downpipes and I LOVE IT.

On a separate note all together I'll hopefully find out of the S55 engine that is arriving from my guy in Germany will fit the M2's bay. It's a tad nerve wrecking tinkering with my 3 week old 2018 M2 but to an extent the announcement of the M2C annoyed me as it came 10 hours I took delivery.
That's interesting. I assuming it will fit since what's in the M2C is supposed to be the same S55, but I'm sure some modifications may have to be made.
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      05-23-2018, 08:42 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qnet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by amelia.f87m2 View Post
I sooo agree with you on letting the N55 sing it's tune. : Just fitted my Fi Exhaust valvetronic system that comes with catless downpipes and I LOVE IT.

On a separate note all together I'll hopefully find out of the S55 engine that is arriving from my guy in Germany will fit the M2's bay. It's a tad nerve wrecking tinkering with my 3 week old 2018 M2 but to an extent the announcement of the M2C annoyed me as it came 10 hours I took delivery.
That's interesting. I assuming it will fit since what's in the M2C is supposed to be the same S55, but I'm sure some modifications may have to be made.
Well according to Daniel (my German counterpart) who I work closely with, he mentioned all mount points are good but I'll need one one. Shared in confidence as he was behind the works of the Mannhrt MH630 M2.

Of course I'm not going silly as that car when I ona rear seat delete and swap out for a roll cage. Haha!

Well I'll definitely enjoy my baby for awhile and refrain from impulse purchases.

Feel free to check Amelia's development on instagram under the same username.
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      05-23-2018, 09:14 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amelia.f87m2 View Post
I sooo agree with you on letting the N55 sing it's tune. : Just fitted my Fi Exhaust valvetronic system that comes with catless downpipes and I LOVE IT.

On a separate note all together I'll hopefully find out of the S55 engine that is arriving from my guy in Germany will fit the M2's bay. It's a tad nerve wrecking tinkering with my 3 week old 2018 M2 but to an extent the announcement of the M2C annoyed me as it came 10 hours I took delivery.
Bet the S55 runs a premium a week before Race Wars!

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      03-10-2019, 10:19 AM   #194
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Still waiting to pick up a worthless N55 M2 as my winter beater.

Seriously, what gives?

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      03-12-2019, 03:12 PM   #195
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drive and enjoy. Its such a waste time worry about value.
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      03-12-2019, 10:44 PM   #196
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My favorite Italian restaurant has closed. F87_LCI I'm now pulling for you.
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      03-12-2019, 11:52 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babym2 View Post
leasing is for people that cannot afford the car to begin with
No not really but okay...

There are many reasons why someone would lease instead of buying outright. Many of those reasons skew towards the financially savvy individual.

- When there's attractive residuals and no MF, as we saw through BMW FS the last few years (not anymore). Take a visit over to the M3/4 forum and they'll educate you on how cheap it was to lease the 2015-2017 models.
- Leasing in the name of your company, if you have one. Tax benefits galore.
- Not worrying about depreciation from potential accidents. Crash any high-end car and you'll immediately wish you leased it.
- "Disposable" cars...many people know they'll want to hop into a new car 3 years down the road so why deal with the complexities of owning it and having to sell...plus many dealers will work with these customers on favorable lease terms knowing it's a revolving door of business.

The people that are best with their money understand when it's smart to lease and when it's smart to buy. Sure there may be some people that use leases to stretch what they can afford but there are even more people that are financial wizards and use leasing because it makes more sense for them.

When I owned my M4, I was kicking myself every day that I didn't lease it since the original lease residual I was offered would have put me about $8k ahead of the car's resale value when I was ready to sell it 3 years later.

Fast forward to today, I own my GT3. Lease my A3. Own the GT3 because Porsche lease terms suck and because I'll hold onto it for 5 years and because it makes sense from a depreciation standpoint. I lease the A3 despite being able to walk in and pay cash without problem because of the reasons listed above. I treat it as an appliance, know I won't want it more than 3 years, and as a result I don't give much of a shit when it suffers wear and tear and I can just roll into the dealership, hand them the keys, and roll out with something brand new.

But hey, since you're the financial Jedi here I guess I "can't afford" my A3 since I lease it.
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      03-13-2019, 12:39 AM   #198
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My favorite Italian restaurant has closed. F87_LCI I'm now pulling for you.
Lol, thanks Doug. With the M2C sales starting to stall at the mention of the M2CS, the OG market value is taking even more of a beating as dealerships that still have stock of the OG are paying people to take them off the lot...literally...I think at last check they were offering something like $5k off remaining '18s just to get people in the door...and then you can start to negotiate from there! Some dealerships are already discounting the 2C as well. Add to all of this my 56% residual and my low lease rate and BMW is def going to be upside down on this car at the end of the lease...which is when I will simply hand them back the keys and say "Thanks. You'll want to put some gas in her."
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